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Thread: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

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    Default Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Did anyone else catch him saying something to that effect in his press conference last night?

    I don't have it in front of me, but if someone could share or embed the video from pacers.com of Frank speaking after the game, you can hear it for yourself.

    It basically has to do with a big cutting down the lane at a certain point in the set to where they will sometimes be in great position to pull down a board. Good move.

    I saw some bits of the game after hearing that and sure enough I noticed our bigs doing just that.

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    On the Vogel Wagon gummy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Did anyone else catch him saying something to that effect in his press conference last night?

    I don't have it in front of me, but if someone could share or embed the video from pacers.com of Frank speaking after the game, you can hear it for yourself.

    It basically has to do with a big cutting down the lane at a certain point in the set to where they will sometimes be in great position to pull down a board. Good move.

    I saw some bits of the game after hearing that and sure enough I noticed our bigs doing just that.
    Yep, I caught it. Here it is:

    http://www.nba.com/pacers/video/2011...gelf4v-1946161
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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Soo... Is this a new concept? If it is... This could be the first mark in a great coaching tenure for Vogel.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Soo... Is this a new concept? If it is... This could be the first mark in a great coaching tenure for Vogel.
    Nope. It's from the book of Jerry Sloan. It's one of my favorite parts of Sloan's offense.

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    HE HIT! HE HIT! HE HIT! glazedham42's Avatar
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    NO! Our PF's and C's should always be at the 3 point line. The point guard is supposed to get the rebounds after the big men shoot 3's to stretch the floor.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    All this winning with toughness and scoring in the paint must be making JOb roll over in his grave...

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    All this winning with toughness and scoring in the paint must be making JOb roll over in HELL...
    Fixed.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quinn made a veiled reference to JOB last night versus Vogel's brand of basketball. At some point in the game Quinn mentioned we had our 3 point shooters shooting the 3 (pretty sure he also said that's how it should be but I might've been just thinking that awfully loudly!)... He then said something about if you have a coach that's a big believer in the 3 point shot he'll tend to want everyone shooting the 3. ...Then he said (paraphrased) Vogel doesn't believe in that.

    That's been my one fear with Vogel that deep down he bought into that "you can't score if you don't shoot, everybody spread the floor, put up the 3!" offense and so it was only a matter of time before he morphed us back there. I've seen no signs that would be the case and hearing Quinn say that isn't something he (Vogel) believes in makes me feel even better about it.
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Some teams send two bigs to the offensive glass - some of the best coaches of all time, such as Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Sloan tend to do this. But some other all time great coaches only send 1 big to the offensive board. Popovich, Pat Riley, JVG.

    Just different styles

    Obviously I am over simplifying the approach to Make my point
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-28-2011 at 12:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Some teams send two bigs to the offensive glass - some of the best coaches of all time, such as Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Sloan tend to do this. But some other all time great coaches only send 1 big to the offensive board. Popovich, Pat Riley, JVG.
    And some send none because those bigs are shooting threes

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And some send none because those bigs are shooting threes
    And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..
    Yeah, the coaches that send no bigs to the paint are the true legends. Haters gonna hate.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Some teams send two bigs to the offensive glass - some of the best coaches of all time, such as Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Sloan tend to do this. But some other all time great coaches only send 1 big to the offensive board. Popovich, Pat Riley, JVG.

    Just different styles

    Obviously I am over simplifying the approach to Make my point
    Um, when did Riley do this when he was with the Lakers? Both Rambis & Jabbar would go after offensive rebounds. Same thing back when he had Lansburger & Chones with Jabbar.

    The Knicks were a little more tricky because he still sent two guys to the glass but Mason was as big as any power forward in the NBA and while Charles Smith was as tall as any he wasn't as strong.

    Ewing would go if he was in the post but he did go back on defense most of the time.

    I think Riley actually flooded the boards myself, but that's just me.

    Now Carlisle on the other hand would drive me crazy because he would only leave one big to go after the glass.

    Now to Frank, whatever it is he is doing I like it. In fact I like almost every single thing about how he is going at the team. From player management to in game stratgy. I'm sure I'll find fault somewhere down the road but right now he is doing everything the right way as far as I'm concerned.


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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    *Thinks back to February with all the JOB supporters blabbering on about "Wait until the Honeymoon Period is over. This won't last," and laughs hysterically.*



    Frank Vogel is God.
    Last edited by Day-V; 12-28-2011 at 03:20 AM.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    JOB are you listening? It's a lot easier to make a put back or a layup than it is to hit a 20 ft. jumpshot. Plus it's a lot easier to draw the foul. Hopefully the whole team gets inside and paint ingrained in their vocabulary this year as opposed to outside and chuck. We have a lot of guys on this roster now that can drive the basket.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Nothing about Vogel suggests he will go back to stretch the floor basketball. I think we are safe . . . and in pretty good hands.
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    And some send none because those bigs are shooting threes
    fwiw, boston routinly [?] is one of the worst offensive rebounding teams. because they focus on getting back on defense to avoid runouts.

    personally i don't like that, but it seems to work for them.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..
    I'm not the only one who finds this hilarious right?
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Quinn made a veiled reference to JOB last night versus Vogel's brand of basketball. At some point in the game Quinn mentioned we had our 3 point shooters shooting the 3 (pretty sure he also said that's how it should be but I might've been just thinking that awfully loudly!)... He then said something about if you have a coach that's a big believer in the 3 point shot he'll tend to want everyone shooting the 3. ...Then he said (paraphrased) Vogel doesn't believe in that.....
    Quinn also mentioned Josh specifically in talking about that. In Quinn's opinion, Josh should not have been made to shoot the three. I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..
    It is relevant because we are discussing differing strategies. So, including the different strategies of the two most recent Pacer coaches seems to be fitting.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Quinn also mentioned Josh specifically in talking about that. In Quinn's opinion, Josh should not have been made to shoot the three. I agree.

    Last season, Quinn praised Josh for his newly aquired ability to shoot the three as it gives the Pacers the advantage to stretch the floor.

    Quinn talks a lot.
    Thank you Jeff.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Um, when did Riley do this when he was with the Lakers? Both Rambis & Jabbar would go after offensive rebounds. Same thing back when he had Lansburger & Chones with Jabbar.

    The Knicks were a little more tricky because he still sent two guys to the glass but Mason was as big as any power forward in the NBA and while Charles Smith was as tall as any he wasn't as strong.

    Ewing would go if he was in the post but he did go back on defense most of the time.

    I think Riley actually flooded the boards myself, but that's just me.

    Now Carlisle on the other hand would drive me crazy because he would only leave one big to go after the glass.

    Now to Frank, whatever it is he is doing I like it. In fact I like almost every single thing about how he is going at the team. From player management to in game stratgy. I'm sure I'll find fault somewhere down the road but right now he is doing everything the right way as far as I'm concerned.
    My point was just to suggest that different coaches have different approaches and there are advantages and disadvantages to each approach.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by 31andonly View Post
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    Last season, Quinn praised Josh for his newly aquired ability to shoot the three as it gives the Pacers the advantage to stretch the floor.

    Quinn talks a lot.
    It's a nice skill to use once in a while. It's a horrible skill to use exclusively. That was Quinn's point.

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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Quinn also mentioned Josh specifically in talking about that. In Quinn's opinion, Josh should not have been made to shoot the three. I agree.



    It is relevant because we are discussing differing strategies. So, including the different strategies of the two most recent Pacer coaches seems to be fitting.
    And I think with Josh, he would have been a positive force in offensive rebounding because he is agile, quick, and has the hops. It was good to have him develop his shot more, but I would have prefered he work on his 10-12 footer before going to the outside. It would have done so much more for him as a player at that point in his career.

    I love the way this team offense and defense is being catered to our strengths and weaknesses. Vogel has a long season to endure before making any full on judgments, but up to this point, you have to like what he is doing strategically. Our guards are making cuts that are much more effective off of the bigs and we are getting Granger involved more appropriately in the offense, which helps him be a more concerted defender. I just love that Vogel has preached defense, which JOB did as well, but Vogel actually has an offense designed to give us better possessions, which keeps us from having to make as many defensive stops, IMO. I get the concepts that JOB utilized and they are important to the game, such as spreading the floor and getting guys back in transition defense. Vogel is doing those things without sacrificing our front court presence and defensive priority.
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    I've always felt that crashing the boards would help this team since we don't really have shooters on the floor.

    Consistently winning the battle of the boards (especially on the O-glass) and hitting FTs are going to win us a lot of games. We can't try to rely on outshooting our opponents.
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    Default Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparhawk View Post
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    I've always felt that crashing the boards would help this team since we don't really have shooters on the floor.

    Consistently winning the battle of the boards (especially on the O-glass) and hitting FTs are going to win us a lot of games. We can't try to rely on outshouting our opponents.
    Good point. The Heat have not shot a three pointer yet this year. They are too busy attacking the glass offensively and defensively. We need to get to the rim a whole hell of a lot more than we ever did under JOB. We also need to control the boards, which to me is the single best thing we could do to be competitive this year. If we can be a top rebounding team, I think that will take so much pressure off of the other phases of the game. Rebounding is about hustle. Effort will win us half of our games.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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