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Thread: JOB's influence on Vogel

  1. #101
    Member ksuttonjr76's Avatar
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    For Gods sake Phil Jackson was just outright making fun of him here for using Murphy & Dunleavy at the 4 and 5.
    Ah...another great JOB moment.

    I was just thinking about something else. The one person that I feel the most sorry for is Josh McRoberts, because he tried "hard" to fit JOB's idea of what a PF should be. I was just thinking about the game against Chicago that JOB was ejected from. Josh McRoberts was on fire early in the game, then JOB took him out of the game for whatever reason for an EXTENDED amount of time. I remember one of the announcers saying...

    "O'Brien must have forgotten about McRoberts, and I wonder why he hasn't put him back in the game."

    There was a brief discussion about it, and JOB FINALLY puts McRoberts back in the game. 2-3 plays later, McRoberts gets posterized which basically (in the eyes of fans) erased his entire good game.

    If JOB didn't get fired, I would have probably stopped watching Pacers game, because I was getting tired of JOB misusing our players.

    Here's the game thread....
    http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthre...pacers+chicago
    Last edited by ksuttonjr76; 12-31-2011 at 11:17 AM.

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  3. #102
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    I firmly believe that his mis-usage of McBob that night was the absolute final straw. If the former head coach of the Pacers doesn't play his chosen one 17 minutes (even with Tyler out sick), his reign of terror doesn't end permanently when he got ejected that night.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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  4. #103
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Yeah. The excuse that Jim didn't play younger players because he wanted to win 36 games instead of 15 to keep his job just doesn't hold water. One of the main reasons he was fired was because he didn't play the younger guys. Bird said it in the presser and frank came right out and started playing them.

    Bird wanted them to play and grow. Jim wanted them to sit. Its pretty obvious.

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  6. #104
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    I think we saw a little of JOB's influence in tonight's Piston game.

    Small ball the whole 4th quarter or at least the parts I was able to stand watching. Which was a horrible decision. The Pistons are a small team and instead of exerting our strength and forcing them to adjust we tried to match up with them and actually gave them the size advantage.

    That's some classic JOB ball there. JOB would never have played Tyler that long though.

  7. #105
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I think we saw a little of JOB's influence in tonight's Piston game.

    Small ball the whole 4th quarter or at least the parts I was able to stand watching. Which was a horrible decision. The Pistons are a small team and instead of exerting our strength and forcing them to adjust we tried to match up with them and actually gave them the size advantage.

    That's some classic JOB ball there. JOB would never have played Tyler that long though.

    You must have missed the first thre quarters because the 4th quarter was the only quarter where the Pacers were able to put forth the effort needed to get back into the game.

    Sometimes a small lineup works

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  9. #106
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    I think we saw a little of JOB's influence in tonight's Piston game.

    Small ball the whole 4th quarter or at least the parts I was able to stand watching. Which was a horrible decision. The Pistons are a small team and instead of exerting our strength and forcing them to adjust we tried to match up with them and actually gave them the size advantage.

    That's some classic JOB ball there. JOB would never have played Tyler that long though.
    "Small ball" brought us back and Tyler was a huge reason why we got close.

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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You must have missed the first thre quarters because the 4th quarter was the only quarter where the Pacers were able to put forth the effort needed to get back into the game.

    Sometimes a small lineup works
    Small ball is often times a last resort when the offense is lethargic for much of the game and the team is down in the 4th quarter.

    The Bulls went to small ball in the 4th quarter when their conventional lineup looked like garbage against the Warriors a few nights ago. It got them back into the game. Had the Warriors just made a couple more mistakes, the Bulls could've completed the comeback.

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  12. #108
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Small ball is often times a last resort when the offense is lethargic for much of the game and the team is down in the 4th quarter.

    The Bulls went to small ball in the 4th quarter when their conventional lineup looked like garbage against the Warriors a few nights ago. It got them back into the game. Had the Warriors just made a couple more mistakes, the Bulls could've completed the comeback.
    Yes, it's like jump-starting the team. So, small ball isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's a bad thing when the opponent is using their size against you more successfully than they would if you put bigger players on the court. It's all a judgment call. But what is clear IMO is that you cannot expect much success in the post-season running small ball as your standard line-up. It just doesn't work against the better teams. It almost did against the Pistons though.

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  14. #109
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Does anybody else question Vogel's decisions? I like him as a coach, but it seems like he puts some players in at certain points that don't make sense. Like for instance against Detroit tonight I think David West should have been in instead of Tyler. I feel like Vogel also took some confidence from PG who I feel like should get more consistent playing time or he will turn into another Rush. I know Vogel is way better than O'Brien, but I feel like we should have our very best players in at the end of games.

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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    You must have missed the first thre quarters because the 4th quarter was the only quarter where the Pacers were able to put forth the effort needed to get back into the game.

    Sometimes a small lineup works
    Yeah I did miss a big chunk of it. I just saw the small ball the whole 4th and was pretty turned off by it. The way we won the previous games was by out rebounding and dominating the paint.

  16. #111
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    Does anybody else question Vogel's decisions? I like him as a coach, but it seems like he puts some players in at certain points that don't make sense. Like for instance against Detroit tonight I think David West should have been in instead of Tyler. I feel like Vogel also took some confidence from PG who I feel like should get more consistent playing time or he will turn into another Rush. I know Vogel is way better than O'Brien, but I feel like we should have our very best players in at the end of games.
    Heavens. You are way ahead of me. I cannot even wrap my head around questioning Vogel after the last 4 years.

  17. #112
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    the super small ball was a last ditch effort. I knew people would cringe but it was desperation not the norm. What I don't get is not using pg at sf. The collision,hill,DJ lineup I'd a head scratcher.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

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  19. #113
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by PGisthefuture View Post
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    Does anybody else question Vogel's decisions? I like him as a coach, but it seems like he puts some players in at certain points that don't make sense. Like for instance against Detroit tonight I think David West should have been in instead of Tyler. I feel like Vogel also took some confidence from PG who I feel like should get more consistent playing time or he will turn into another Rush. I know Vogel is way better than O'Brien, but I feel like we should have our very best players in at the end of games.
    Not really. There have been a few things I'd quibble with, but nothing major thus far. For the most part I like his rotations - they make sooo much more sense to me than O'Brien. The offense sucks, but Vogel has acknowledged that and says he is working on it. I'm willing to give that time before I start making judgments.

    David West has played a lot of minutes so far - more than I'd like, actually - so I can't agree with the idea of having him in the game even more versus Detroit. PG would have consistent playing time if he hadn't gotten himself into foul trouble - that's not on Vogel and if his confidence is *that* easily shaken...well. I doubt that it is. I just think PG is young and still trying to find his way. The coach can help with that, but it's also going to take time. My impression of PG is that he is more inclined to defer than not - he probably needs to hear from Granger and/or West more than Coach Vogel when it comes to his confidence asserting himself on offense.

    I feel like we should have our very best players in at the end of the game too. But I don't have a rigid definition of "very best players." Sometimes, it depends on the night and the match-ups - especially on a team that is as balanced, talent-wise, as the Indiana Pacers.
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    Default Re: JOB's influence on Vogel

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    the super small ball was a last ditch effort. I knew people would cringe but it was desperation not the norm. What I don't get is not using pg at sf. The collision,hill,DJ lineup I'd a head scratcher.
    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
    +1
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