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Thread: Oh yea... I forgot

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Oh yea... I forgot

    In my despondency over the back to back losses to Chicago I totally forgot what I heard on the pre-game show straight from Birds mouth.

    I'm on the road on my way home before the game at Chicago & I am listening to the pre-game when Bird say's something out of the blue in an interview but frankly I was so stunned I didn't know what to think.

    He said (and I won't use quotes here because it is not word for word) our owner has told us we can't go after restricted free agents, which kind of ties one arm behind our back but that's just the type of person he is.

    Several things here.

    1. Why is Simon making this rule? Has this always been in place or is this new?

    2. What restricted free agents would he like to go after?

    3. The way he said this, to me anyway, seemed like a statement that Mr. Simon is holding him back from doing what he wanted to do.

    Did anybody else hear this?


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  2. #2
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    I read it somewhere earlier.

    Herb doesn't want to go after RFA's out of courtesy to his fellow owners, or some such thing.
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  4. #3
    ENABEABLER MagicRat's Avatar
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  6. #4
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    I didn't hear it, but I don't remember ever hearing that "policy" before it surfaced recently. I assume the restricted free agent he most wanted to go after was probably Marc Gasol. That's just a guess though. Maybe Afflalo? Seems like kind of an odd policy, but he doesn't meddle too much in basketball affairs and signing restricted free agents usually just ties up money for a few days while other options go off the board or makes you vastly overpay for a guy, so it isn't the worst policy I've ever heard of.

  7. #5

    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Stupid move. I am sure they would return the favor.

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  9. #6

    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    It surfaced a couple of weeks ago somewhere (IndyStar?) and Simon's reasoning is that we don't pursue RFA out of respect to other owners.

    *edit* what MR said
    Last edited by imawhat; 12-22-2011 at 02:57 AM.

  10. #7
    Member ThatPacerFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Yea I think going after restricted free agents is much more costly than unrestricted ones, seeing as how you have to put out an offer high enough so the free agents team can't match.

    Simon is a business man and always has been. That rule is all about saving money. Fellow owners? Give me a break lol.
    Last edited by ThatPacerFan; 12-22-2011 at 02:47 AM.
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  11. #8

    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    I don't think it's disrespectful to go after a RFA if you have an actual intent on signing them. I do think it's disrespectful to go after a RFA just to bump up the price. However, as said before, EVERY other owner (to my knowledge) goes after RFAs if given the chance, so I don't see the point. We'll see how he feels after the Pacers don't sign Roy and Hill to extensions and they become RFAs.

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  13. #9

    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    This philosophy is like giving the ball back to the opposing team after a 5 second violation. You take advantage of the rules.

  14. #10
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Going after a good RFA is dangerous, especially for a small market team. If you are going to pry away the RFA you'll have to overpay. Smart cap management and not over paying for players will give us the most flexibility to build a team.

    The policy is just as much about not overpaying for talent as it is out of courtesy.
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  16. #11
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Stupid question.......only cuz I'm looking for a loophole here....but if the RFA << Cough EJ Cough >> happens to plays for a Team << Cough Hornets Cough >> that is technically owned by the NBA through some amalgomation of the NBA Owners themselves ( the Simon's being one of them ), indirectly....are the Pacers allowed to bid on that RFA ( since the Simon's indirectly own a small part of the Hornets )?



    My guess is that there is no technicality....and the answer is NO...it doesn't matter.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-22-2011 at 04:05 AM.
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  17. #12
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRat View Post
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    I read it somewhere earlier.

    Herb doesn't want to go after RFA's out of courtesy to his fellow owners, or some such thing.
    Although the Simons maybe "hands off", I can see that this is some "unwritten rule" that has been handed down to the FO for a long period of time as opposed to something that is recent. The Simons have owned the Pacers for a long period of time...and I assume that such a philosophy...specifically coming from ( I would guess ) one of the more respected Owners in the NBA....would make total sense in fitting with the character of the Team and Owner.

    I don't agree with it ( cuz I totally want to make a serious run at EJ since our window of opportunity to make the best run is in the next couple of years )......but I can totally see other Team Owners trying to poach PG or Hibbert when they becomes RFAs......but I can see this as a "matter of respect" coming from a Classy Owner.
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-22-2011 at 04:07 AM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  18. #13

    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    As a small market like us, it usually do not make sense to go into a bidding war.
    We offer a contract slight more than market value, the player signed offer sheet,
    the host team of the RFA will still match the offer if the RFA is a good enough player.

    If the RFA is not good enough, then it does not make sense to bid.

    Of course there are some player that don´t fit with the host team that we might have a chance, but that´s rare.

    Perhaps Simons have a undertable consensus with other owner to avoid malice bid on RFA.

  19. #14
    Member ChristianDudley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    I've heard this as well. Whatever Herb thinks, I guess...

  20. #15
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Someone here, a day or two ago, said exactly that. It was posted in a matter of fact tone, and I don't think anyone questioned it at the time. I'd never seen or heard it before and thought about questioning the source for that myself out of curiosity. So either it's been out there in the media prior to this or some poster had inside info because that is exactly what they said. It might've been in an EJ thread... or a thread that turned to EJ. Maybe that person will see this and elaborate.

    It doesn't sound like a sound policy for a competitive sports franchise to take though.
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  21. #16
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Well, have we ever put a bid in for a RFA?
    .

    .

    .

    .


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  22. #17
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Its dumbest policy ever...we should always being going after the best players we can.
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  23. #18
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    We will see if his policy pays off when our rfa come up over the next few years. We will see how respectful other teams are to us.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 12-24-2011 at 10:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    I suppose that if other owners were to hear this and to follow suit then the Owners could be sued for collusion and anti-trust violations. Or do they have to prove that the owners actually conspired to hold back RFA's?
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  26. #20
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    My question, when and who was the last restricted free agent that changed teams. I know it has happened, but it is rare and it hardly ever happens with a really good player.

    So my response it OK, no big deal.

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  28. #21
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Remember what Bill Simmons said we should do? Bid on a lot of players we weren't specifically interested in to drive the price up and make it harder for opposing teams to manage payroll?

    That's what Toronto did to us with Austin Croshere, and it's what Herb's saying he doesn't want to be a part of.
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  29. #22
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Someone here, a day or two ago, said exactly that. It was posted in a matter of fact tone, and I don't think anyone questioned it at the time. I'd never seen or heard it before and thought about questioning the source for that myself out of curiosity. So either it's been out there in the media prior to this or some poster had inside info because that is exactly what they said. It might've been in an EJ thread... or a thread that turned to EJ. Maybe that person will see this and elaborate.

    It doesn't sound like a sound policy for a competitive sports franchise to take though.
    When I first read this a couple weeks ago I came to an instant conclusion. I don't think the Pacers front office is interested in going after EJ next year. And they feel that in two years George will be so good they can say we don't need EJ. And we won't.

    I think it has to do with three things. One is loyalty. From what I understand Bird told Granger that if he bought into the Pacers rebuilding years he would be here during the good seasons. Granger went along, consequently the Pacers really aren't interested in trading him, and then moving George to small forward.

    Two, the problem is along comes EJ and George. The Pacers front office obviously think George is going to be very good. Not only that, but as a 6'10 shooting guard he's going to give other teams nightmare match-up problems guarding him. And he can guard the two position, so there is no need to look elsewhere.

    I know the IU crowd want EJ, and he is good, but I think the Pacers like the wing positions just the way they are for a third reason. It's much cheaper this way. In two years EJ will want 12 million plus while George is still on his rookie contract.

    I think the Pacers front office is patiently building a contender and they don't want EJ fans throwing tantrums because they aren't interested at this time in acquiring him. Thus the fans know ahead of time the Pacers won't be going after any RFA's next year, which would of course include EJ.

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  31. #23
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    While a RFA sounds nice, you do have to over pay to go after them. I'm fine with the rule. Hopefully that means other owners respect our RFA.
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  32. #24
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    I've harped on this before, but Restricted Free Agency is stupid. They made it a little better with the new rules, but the whole process is ridiculous and counter-productive to all involved.

    A Tag system would be so much better, but the NBPA will never let it happen.
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  33. #25
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Oh yea... I forgot

    Well, hopefully the Hornets still don't have an owner this off-season so we can go after EJ...

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