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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Postgame thread

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  • Postgame thread

    I'm starting a postgame thread (even though many postgame comments are in the game thread) because we have a week until the first game and a fresh thread seems like a good idea.

    Tyler Hansbrough. I was not surprised. We've seen this performance before. It's all about whether he is hitting his outside shot. If he is, he is basically unstoppable, and I mean that. If he finds consistency with his shot, he will be a leading scorer in the NBA. We'll see. He was hot and cold last year. Perhaps this is the year he finds a rhythm.

    My favorite play of the game was around the 3rd quarter when Tyler got the ball on the baseline about 20 feet away. I think it was Taj Gibson, a great defender, who finally realized he better get is @__ way out there and cover him. So Tyler performed a mega quick jab step, drove baseline quicker than a cat and scored an easy, uncontested layup—because getting in front of that beast means an almost guaranteed and 1. Those are your choices when Tyler Hansbrough is hot.

    Lance Stephenson. He does not "run the offense." Right now we have no offense. We don't have the players to run a good offense. Lance is the only person on the team with the ability, the possibility, and the potential, of creating space and opportunities to provide high percentage shots for the team. In my opinion, his breaking out is the only mathematical possibility we have to develop a powerful offensive team. (Apart from another acquisition.)

    That said, he is an experiment worth being patient with. We need to give him a long leash. We need to hope and pray he is maturing into a decent human being, as surely the precedent is there for him to be a bad one.

    Some say Lance has a low Bball IQ. I disagree. I think it is quite high. (BBall IQ being defined as natural instincts regarding what works on the floor.) What he has is very poor training. Rucker Park was not the bastion of fundamentals and Cincy apparently didn't help much. Therefore, let's hope the coaching staff has the ability and passion to instill fundamental ball into Lance's thinking, and let's hope Lance is willing to learn.

    Danny Granger. Okay, he takes preseason off. Not the worst sin in the world, but it's a metaphor for Danny's entire style, which is a bit irksome to me. He takes some things off at times, like defense. You know, I was a bit embarrassed for him and the Pacers that Coach K decided to bench him because his defense wasn't good enough. Another strike against him who should not be named.

    Roy Hibbert. Like Hansbrough, Roy can be hot and cold. He's been cold in the preseason. He'll get hot again. But my gripe with Roy is that his hot streaks probably won't emerge when it matters, like the playoffs. Some things you can't control, but dangit, when a 7'2" guy has a wide open layup and holds the ball at his chest for Noah to smack away, that's not streaky, that's not mentally weak, that's not bad luck. That's pitiful. I've been open to trading him for a year now (as much as I love him personally, and I do), and hope TPTB actively looks for a trade when he hits his next hot streak.

    David West and George Hill. Still not enough data to comment.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 12-21-2011, 02:31 PM.
    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference


  • #2
    Re: Postgame thread

    While the data points are low, I find myself less impressed with Hill than I expected to be, and more impressed with West than I expected to be.

    For David, it is probably just that it has been so long since I saw a Pacer who could make a midrange jumper, and now we have TWO of them...
    BillS

    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Postgame thread

      I was impressed with David's outing.

      A few pick n' pops I really liked. A nice one with DC which will make him a better PG.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Postgame thread

        Totally Agree.

        I would be harsher on Hibbert than you were but I guess its only a preseason game. But WOW......what a weak performance by him. I'm hoping that West and Tyler can play together some especially in crunch time.

        You are also right about our guards. Lance is the only guy at this point capable of creating off of the dribble. George will be a quality player at some point but he still has lots of work to do to get there especially on offensive end.

        Hill and DC seem like high end backup PGs rather than starters on a top 4 EC playoff team to me.

        Granger is a quality player but he facilitates for no one but himself and is aloof at times on both ends.........only getting into when his 3s are falling.

        So in essence, I believe we are still a long way away from moving up teh EC ladder. We still have flexibility and assets that have value can be packaged. Hopefully, a top 20 player becomes available to us at some point this season.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Postgame thread

          I, like others, was very disappointed in Hibbert, DC and Danny this preseason... Danny may have just been taking the preseason off as mentioned, but that's still not a good attitude toward the game.. If your on the court, especially when making money, you need to put the effort out there for your team and fans.

          DC and Hibbert were extremly disappointing.. Both seem very rusty and the first two games I haven't been satisfied with the style DC is playing.. He needs to develop more of a pass first attitude. I like that he has quickness and confidence to run all over the floor but sometimes he runs around too much and just needs to run a play for someone.

          Hansbrough and West have been very impressive in my mind. If Tyler can consistantly play like he is right now, he will easily win the 6th man award.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Postgame thread

            I came away from this game with a few thoughts.

            1. Hansbrough is a beast..enough said
            2. West looks good coming off injury, just needs to get his timing/rhythm down
            3. P.George is turning the ball over A LOT due to being aggressive. If history shows us anything, that is a good sign. I'd rather have an overly aggressive George turn the ball over, than a timid George settle. He could avg between 12 and 14 points this yr.
            4. Granger looks lost, but I hope it's only b/c its preseason.
            5. Roy needs to get better post position, and then use it. He is almost too patient. Not to Roy:you're the tallest player in the league, if you're within 7-ft of the basket, look to make a move and score.
            6. DC is NOT a starting PG. He doesn't score nor distribute well enough, he is a liability on defense, and he dribbles out the shot clock. Reminds me of Travis Best, only Travis could score better. He would be an adequate backup, but as long as he is the starter, we will struggle against the better teams.

            Overall, I'm not too discouraged. We just played two games against the team with the best record from last season. If we can manage to score a little more efficiently (outside shooting anyone) then I think we can be pretty much where the consensus is....5-6th seed in the East.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Postgame thread

              The only things that really stick out to me at this point are Hibbert being very tentative, Granger being almost invisible and the fact that if Lance has been the most consistent point guard in the pre-season you've got issues.
              http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
              "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Postgame thread

                Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post

                Tyler Hansbrough. I was not surprised......
                I agree with your assessment of Hans. With the proper amount of playing time, I think we will see him improve more and more.

                Lance Stephenson.

                ...Some say Lance has a low Bball IQ. I disagree. I think it is quite high. (BBall IQ being defined as natural instincts regarding what works on the floor.)....
                Again, I generally agree with you. The exception being your definition of Bball IQ. I think instincts play a role, but I also think much of what I would call Bball IQ is learned AND retained. [/QUOTE]

                Danny Granger. Okay, he takes preseason off......it's a metaphor for Danny's entire style, which is a bit irksome to me. He takes some things off at times, like defense.....Another strike against him who should not be named.
                Generally agree. I'm getting more and more tired of Granger's lack of.........effort? judgement? I'm not sure exactly what I want to call it, but I'm getting to be less and less a fan of his. This is not based on this pre-season, but rather a much longer time frame.

                I think what we have seen from Granger is the best we will see. After seven years, how much improvement can be expected?

                The part I bolded leads me to a question/statement. Why would we want to blame JOB for Danny's lack of effort on D? Some things should simply be up to the players to take it on themselves to do the job. Coach K apparently saw what we have all seen, and what you commented on with respect to Granger "taking some things off at times, like defense".

                Roy Hibbert.
                I really don't know what to make of Roy. I think if he were not so darned likable, many more people on this board would be ready to cut ties with him. Like you, I hope and hope that he finally gets it all together on a consistant basis. I'm just not sure if he will. I hope so.

                David West and George Hill. Still not enough data to comment.
                I liked what I saw from West in his brief appearance, and expect to see more and more of his talents as time goes on.

                It appears it may take Hill longer than we had hoped to get acclimated to his new team. Willing to give him the time to do just that.
                Last edited by Tom White; 12-21-2011, 10:42 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Postgame thread

                  The disappointing duo of the game for me was Hibbert and Collison. Players at the 2 most important positions in the game of BB. Unless those 2 get their games together, it's gonna be a long long shortened season.

                  I'll say it again, Hibbert is not as good as Marc Gasol nor will he ever be. I truly hate watching him get the ball and try backing his defender down for a shot. I can go to the refrig, get something to drink, and come back b4 he shoots the ball. It wouldn't be so bad if this led to a good shot, especially one he can hit.

                  As far as I'm concerned, the Pacers don't have a PG. They have a bunch of SG in a PG size body. Unlike so many on this board, I was never an advocate of getting Collison from NOLA. He's not a PG clone of CP3 like so many thought. He was successful mostly, b/c he was in a system fitted for CP3 which made him look much better than he is. I'm of the belief that a PG is the motor that drives the engine, and a PG needs to get all of the engine parts involved in moving. Otherwise, the engine is hit and miss while sputtering. I want a PASS 1st PG who plays great "D", and can score when necessary in order to keep the opposition honest. This sure isn't a description of Collison by any means.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Postgame thread

                    Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                    6. DC is NOT a starting PG. He doesn't score nor distribute well enough, he is a liability on defense, and he dribbles out the shot clock. Reminds me of Travis Best, only Travis could score better. He would be an adequate backup, but as long as he is the starter, we will struggle against the better teams.
                    I disagree. Once he gets some players he can pass to and know they are going to score the ball, he will look much better on offense. Also, he drives well and doesn't lose control of the ball very often. He is a three point shot away from being the point guard we desperately need.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Postgame thread

                      After a long wait, I'm glad the NBA started!

                      While many are disappointed with the losses these preseason, I'm not really discouraged and my optimism is still high for the Pacers this season (and beyond). Since there's not much to say since this is just a non-bearing game, I'll just point out the positives on this game:

                      Tyler Hansbrough - such a warrior on every game, whether his game is subpar or superb. That never-say-die spirit and that go-all-out attitude might be the biggest x-factor for this team going forward. His strong will alone makes up for his shortcomings as a basketball player, and I hope he becomes a consistent midrange threat to make him a very dangerous offensive player, since he can drive and also score down low.

                      Lance Stephenson - while many are still not convinced, his skills are really pointing out that he is a legitimate PG. While his moves are flashy and not really as effective yet, you can see how easily he sees open teammates and how well he can deliver passes. If he can maybe try to also score, he can be a potent weapon since having a reliable scoring ability can also help him set up teammates by drawing attention on defense.

                      David West - he's rusty as of now but how he scores late in the game shows how he can help DG and Roy by keeping his matchup's defense honest while he's on the floor. His scoring ability on midrange can be huge to open up lanes for slashers and for our post up players. If he can be in game shape the soonest, I'm sure it will be big for the Pacers to be a top 4 team in the East.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Postgame thread

                        Regarding Hibbert, let's use some perspective. One, it's the preseason. Two, this will only be his 4th year, after a lockout, and centers take longer to develop. But mostly, Noah is one of, if not the best and most disruptive defensive big in the league. Name me a better man defender than Noah at the 4/5 positions. He gives EVERYONE fits...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Postgame thread

                          West is gonna be a heck of a player for us. I think he can play some center too, which makes me feel better about getting both him and Hansbrough 30 minutes a game.

                          Tyler MANsbrough - the guy has the ability to flip the switch and tear it up for stretches. Consistency is key, if he can score like this most games...he can average a freaking point a minute.

                          Paul George - Those things we love about him didnt go away during the lockout.

                          The Bad:

                          Paul George - I'm sorry, but his handles are BAD. I thought they needed some refining last year, but so far this year its been trash. I think you have to have a wing with some ball skills, and we don't have one in our starting lineup.

                          Collison - While I think his defense was improved, he wasn't able to get anything going offensively. I don't know if that's his fault or the coaching staffs.

                          George Hill: The coaching staff needs to figure out how to use him. Thankfully, those games didn't count.

                          The Ugly:

                          Roy Hibbert: Please show up. You're better than that.

                          Any other player, I wasn't able to get much of an opinion on. 66 games is still a long season, and I have a feeling we're going to get a lot better over the course of it.
                          "man, PG has been really good."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Postgame thread

                            Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                            Why would we want to blame JOB for Danny's lack of effort on D?
                            JOB is responsible for Global Climate Change, the Precession of the Ecliptic, the End of the Mayan Calendar, and the Eruption of the Icelandic Volcanoes. Being responsible for Danny's lack of effort on defense seems trivially obvious in comparison.
                            BillS

                            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Postgame thread

                              I really hope we don't see the same old Roy, but it looked like a mirror image of most of last season.

                              I don't know what it'll take for him to slow down and use his size to position himself for a good shot.

                              He's a big guy, added some muscle and now he needs to use it and stop acting like he's nervous. Way too much dancing. Just back yourself in on the defender for a hook shot. Something he is good with given the right positioning.

                              I won't think too highly of it because it was preseason.
                              Last edited by Trophy; 12-21-2011, 11:07 AM.

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