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Thread: Postgame thread

  1. #1
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    Default Postgame thread

    I'm starting a postgame thread (even though many postgame comments are in the game thread) because we have a week until the first game and a fresh thread seems like a good idea.

    Tyler Hansbrough. I was not surprised. We've seen this performance before. It's all about whether he is hitting his outside shot. If he is, he is basically unstoppable, and I mean that. If he finds consistency with his shot, he will be a leading scorer in the NBA. We'll see. He was hot and cold last year. Perhaps this is the year he finds a rhythm.

    My favorite play of the game was around the 3rd quarter when Tyler got the ball on the baseline about 20 feet away. I think it was Taj Gibson, a great defender, who finally realized he better get is @__ way out there and cover him. So Tyler performed a mega quick jab step, drove baseline quicker than a cat and scored an easy, uncontested layup—because getting in front of that beast means an almost guaranteed and 1. Those are your choices when Tyler Hansbrough is hot.

    Lance Stephenson. He does not "run the offense." Right now we have no offense. We don't have the players to run a good offense. Lance is the only person on the team with the ability, the possibility, and the potential, of creating space and opportunities to provide high percentage shots for the team. In my opinion, his breaking out is the only mathematical possibility we have to develop a powerful offensive team. (Apart from another acquisition.)

    That said, he is an experiment worth being patient with. We need to give him a long leash. We need to hope and pray he is maturing into a decent human being, as surely the precedent is there for him to be a bad one.

    Some say Lance has a low Bball IQ. I disagree. I think it is quite high. (BBall IQ being defined as natural instincts regarding what works on the floor.) What he has is very poor training. Rucker Park was not the bastion of fundamentals and Cincy apparently didn't help much. Therefore, let's hope the coaching staff has the ability and passion to instill fundamental ball into Lance's thinking, and let's hope Lance is willing to learn.

    Danny Granger. Okay, he takes preseason off. Not the worst sin in the world, but it's a metaphor for Danny's entire style, which is a bit irksome to me. He takes some things off at times, like defense. You know, I was a bit embarrassed for him and the Pacers that Coach K decided to bench him because his defense wasn't good enough. Another strike against him who should not be named.

    Roy Hibbert. Like Hansbrough, Roy can be hot and cold. He's been cold in the preseason. He'll get hot again. But my gripe with Roy is that his hot streaks probably won't emerge when it matters, like the playoffs. Some things you can't control, but dangit, when a 7'2" guy has a wide open layup and holds the ball at his chest for Noah to smack away, that's not streaky, that's not mentally weak, that's not bad luck. That's pitiful. I've been open to trading him for a year now (as much as I love him personally, and I do), and hope TPTB actively looks for a trade when he hits his next hot streak.

    David West and George Hill. Still not enough data to comment.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 12-21-2011 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    While the data points are low, I find myself less impressed with Hill than I expected to be, and more impressed with West than I expected to be.

    For David, it is probably just that it has been so long since I saw a Pacer who could make a midrange jumper, and now we have TWO of them...
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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    I was impressed with David's outing.

    A few pick n' pops I really liked. A nice one with DC which will make him a better PG.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Totally Agree.

    I would be harsher on Hibbert than you were but I guess its only a preseason game. But WOW......what a weak performance by him. I'm hoping that West and Tyler can play together some especially in crunch time.

    You are also right about our guards. Lance is the only guy at this point capable of creating off of the dribble. George will be a quality player at some point but he still has lots of work to do to get there especially on offensive end.

    Hill and DC seem like high end backup PGs rather than starters on a top 4 EC playoff team to me.

    Granger is a quality player but he facilitates for no one but himself and is aloof at times on both ends.........only getting into when his 3s are falling.

    So in essence, I believe we are still a long way away from moving up teh EC ladder. We still have flexibility and assets that have value can be packaged. Hopefully, a top 20 player becomes available to us at some point this season.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    I, like others, was very disappointed in Hibbert, DC and Danny this preseason... Danny may have just been taking the preseason off as mentioned, but that's still not a good attitude toward the game.. If your on the court, especially when making money, you need to put the effort out there for your team and fans.

    DC and Hibbert were extremly disappointing.. Both seem very rusty and the first two games I haven't been satisfied with the style DC is playing.. He needs to develop more of a pass first attitude. I like that he has quickness and confidence to run all over the floor but sometimes he runs around too much and just needs to run a play for someone.

    Hansbrough and West have been very impressive in my mind. If Tyler can consistantly play like he is right now, he will easily win the 6th man award.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    I came away from this game with a few thoughts.

    1. Hansbrough is a beast..enough said
    2. West looks good coming off injury, just needs to get his timing/rhythm down
    3. P.George is turning the ball over A LOT due to being aggressive. If history shows us anything, that is a good sign. I'd rather have an overly aggressive George turn the ball over, than a timid George settle. He could avg between 12 and 14 points this yr.
    4. Granger looks lost, but I hope it's only b/c its preseason.
    5. Roy needs to get better post position, and then use it. He is almost too patient. Not to Roy:you're the tallest player in the league, if you're within 7-ft of the basket, look to make a move and score.
    6. DC is NOT a starting PG. He doesn't score nor distribute well enough, he is a liability on defense, and he dribbles out the shot clock. Reminds me of Travis Best, only Travis could score better. He would be an adequate backup, but as long as he is the starter, we will struggle against the better teams.

    Overall, I'm not too discouraged. We just played two games against the team with the best record from last season. If we can manage to score a little more efficiently (outside shooting anyone) then I think we can be pretty much where the consensus is....5-6th seed in the East.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    The only things that really stick out to me at this point are Hibbert being very tentative, Granger being almost invisible and the fact that if Lance has been the most consistent point guard in the pre-season you've got issues.
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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Tyler Hansbrough. I was not surprised......
    I agree with your assessment of Hans. With the proper amount of playing time, I think we will see him improve more and more.

    Lance Stephenson.

    ...Some say Lance has a low Bball IQ. I disagree. I think it is quite high. (BBall IQ being defined as natural instincts regarding what works on the floor.)....
    Again, I generally agree with you. The exception being your definition of Bball IQ. I think instincts play a role, but I also think much of what I would call Bball IQ is learned AND retained. [/QUOTE]

    Danny Granger. Okay, he takes preseason off......it's a metaphor for Danny's entire style, which is a bit irksome to me. He takes some things off at times, like defense.....Another strike against him who should not be named.
    Generally agree. I'm getting more and more tired of Granger's lack of.........effort? judgement? I'm not sure exactly what I want to call it, but I'm getting to be less and less a fan of his. This is not based on this pre-season, but rather a much longer time frame.

    I think what we have seen from Granger is the best we will see. After seven years, how much improvement can be expected?

    The part I bolded leads me to a question/statement. Why would we want to blame JOB for Danny's lack of effort on D? Some things should simply be up to the players to take it on themselves to do the job. Coach K apparently saw what we have all seen, and what you commented on with respect to Granger "taking some things off at times, like defense".

    Roy Hibbert.
    I really don't know what to make of Roy. I think if he were not so darned likable, many more people on this board would be ready to cut ties with him. Like you, I hope and hope that he finally gets it all together on a consistant basis. I'm just not sure if he will. I hope so.

    David West and George Hill. Still not enough data to comment.
    I liked what I saw from West in his brief appearance, and expect to see more and more of his talents as time goes on.

    It appears it may take Hill longer than we had hoped to get acclimated to his new team. Willing to give him the time to do just that.
    Last edited by Tom White; 12-21-2011 at 10:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    The disappointing duo of the game for me was Hibbert and Collison. Players at the 2 most important positions in the game of BB. Unless those 2 get their games together, it's gonna be a long long shortened season.

    I'll say it again, Hibbert is not as good as Marc Gasol nor will he ever be. I truly hate watching him get the ball and try backing his defender down for a shot. I can go to the refrig, get something to drink, and come back b4 he shoots the ball. It wouldn't be so bad if this led to a good shot, especially one he can hit.

    As far as I'm concerned, the Pacers don't have a PG. They have a bunch of SG in a PG size body. Unlike so many on this board, I was never an advocate of getting Collison from NOLA. He's not a PG clone of CP3 like so many thought. He was successful mostly, b/c he was in a system fitted for CP3 which made him look much better than he is. I'm of the belief that a PG is the motor that drives the engine, and a PG needs to get all of the engine parts involved in moving. Otherwise, the engine is hit and miss while sputtering. I want a PASS 1st PG who plays great "D", and can score when necessary in order to keep the opposition honest. This sure isn't a description of Collison by any means.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
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    6. DC is NOT a starting PG. He doesn't score nor distribute well enough, he is a liability on defense, and he dribbles out the shot clock. Reminds me of Travis Best, only Travis could score better. He would be an adequate backup, but as long as he is the starter, we will struggle against the better teams.
    I disagree. Once he gets some players he can pass to and know they are going to score the ball, he will look much better on offense. Also, he drives well and doesn't lose control of the ball very often. He is a three point shot away from being the point guard we desperately need.

  16. #11

    Default Re: Postgame thread

    After a long wait, I'm glad the NBA started!

    While many are disappointed with the losses these preseason, I'm not really discouraged and my optimism is still high for the Pacers this season (and beyond). Since there's not much to say since this is just a non-bearing game, I'll just point out the positives on this game:

    Tyler Hansbrough - such a warrior on every game, whether his game is subpar or superb. That never-say-die spirit and that go-all-out attitude might be the biggest x-factor for this team going forward. His strong will alone makes up for his shortcomings as a basketball player, and I hope he becomes a consistent midrange threat to make him a very dangerous offensive player, since he can drive and also score down low.

    Lance Stephenson - while many are still not convinced, his skills are really pointing out that he is a legitimate PG. While his moves are flashy and not really as effective yet, you can see how easily he sees open teammates and how well he can deliver passes. If he can maybe try to also score, he can be a potent weapon since having a reliable scoring ability can also help him set up teammates by drawing attention on defense.

    David West - he's rusty as of now but how he scores late in the game shows how he can help DG and Roy by keeping his matchup's defense honest while he's on the floor. His scoring ability on midrange can be huge to open up lanes for slashers and for our post up players. If he can be in game shape the soonest, I'm sure it will be big for the Pacers to be a top 4 team in the East.

  17. #12

    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Regarding Hibbert, let's use some perspective. One, it's the preseason. Two, this will only be his 4th year, after a lockout, and centers take longer to develop. But mostly, Noah is one of, if not the best and most disruptive defensive big in the league. Name me a better man defender than Noah at the 4/5 positions. He gives EVERYONE fits...

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    West is gonna be a heck of a player for us. I think he can play some center too, which makes me feel better about getting both him and Hansbrough 30 minutes a game.

    Tyler MANsbrough - the guy has the ability to flip the switch and tear it up for stretches. Consistency is key, if he can score like this most games...he can average a freaking point a minute.

    Paul George - Those things we love about him didnt go away during the lockout.

    The Bad:

    Paul George - I'm sorry, but his handles are BAD. I thought they needed some refining last year, but so far this year its been trash. I think you have to have a wing with some ball skills, and we don't have one in our starting lineup.

    Collison - While I think his defense was improved, he wasn't able to get anything going offensively. I don't know if that's his fault or the coaching staffs.

    George Hill: The coaching staff needs to figure out how to use him. Thankfully, those games didn't count.

    The Ugly:

    Roy Hibbert: Please show up. You're better than that.

    Any other player, I wasn't able to get much of an opinion on. 66 games is still a long season, and I have a feeling we're going to get a lot better over the course of it.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Why would we want to blame JOB for Danny's lack of effort on D?
    JOB is responsible for Global Climate Change, the Precession of the Ecliptic, the End of the Mayan Calendar, and the Eruption of the Icelandic Volcanoes. Being responsible for Danny's lack of effort on defense seems trivially obvious in comparison.
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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    I really hope we don't see the same old Roy, but it looked like a mirror image of most of last season.

    I don't know what it'll take for him to slow down and use his size to position himself for a good shot.

    He's a big guy, added some muscle and now he needs to use it and stop acting like he's nervous. Way too much dancing. Just back yourself in on the defender for a hook shot. Something he is good with given the right positioning.

    I won't think too highly of it because it was preseason.
    Last edited by Trophy; 12-21-2011 at 11:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Here are some of my thoughts from the other thread...

    Roy, IMO, is already in his own head, which is his typical MO now. And seeing West and Hansbrough out there together and being effective couldn't have helped his shaky confidence. I'm seriously concerned about Roy moving forward. How will he respond if we end up going with West and Hans in late game situations? Yes they aren't as tall as Roy, but they are both much stronger and can hold their position in the post much better on both ends of the court.

    I was very impressed with West. He seems to be extremely confident in that knee and was very active. I loved when he got the ball deep and used a quick elbow plunge into Noah's kidney to get the space he needed for the layup. That is a solid move. One that I think Hans will eventually add to his arsenal, and it would be great if he could teach Roy how to clear space like that, but unfortunately I just don't think Roy gets that. West is going to be a very good player for us this year, he looks in great shape and is clearly a confident vet out there.
    Also, Paul George is intriguing the hell out of me, that past two games, if you had just given me a quick question of his "impact" without looking at the box score, I would have guessed mediocre to minimal. But yet, 17 and 10 & 14 and 6. That is NOT Brandon Rush folks. That is an aggressive player who just isn't quite on his game yet. Very intrigued by those two stat lines, if he had been on his game either of those nights we'd probably be talking about him averaging 20 ppg in the two preseason games, yet he put up decent stats and had an impact without me really taking notice. That is a very good sign IMO. Still needs to work on his damn jump shot though.
    Also, to be fair to Granger, this has been his MO in the preseason for years, maybe it's a shooter finding his rhythm, I dunno, but I'm not concerned. When we last saw him, he gave us a pretty good effort against the Bulls in the playoffs when he was being blanketed by their whole defense.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-21-2011 at 11:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Also, is there any doubt now why Bird wanted Rajon Rondo? Our point guard play has been pitiful. DC is, well, at this point he just looks like DC, which is to say a really good backup PG or a starter on an 8 seed. Hill is a 2 guard that really needs to play at an up tempo style, which is how San Antonio played when he was on the court. And Lance, while the talent might be there, is so raw that it is painful to watch him at times. Then there's Price, who honestly impressed the hell out of me in the 2 minutes or he got on the court last night.

    We NEED a quality PG, if Rondo or one of the big name PGs becomes available again, we need to be right at the front of the line.

    I will say Hill, had a couple passes that weren't caught that probably were easy buckets, so maybe that will change.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-21-2011 at 11:12 AM.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    I don't have a problem with Granger cruising through the preseason. Heck, Reggie would cruise through the regular season in the 90's when our team was talented and could easily beat inferior teams.

    Granger will be 29 at the end of this season. He's not exactly a "young" dude anymore. He knows it's a condensed season and wants to make sure he has plenty of energy for it, so he's not going to go all out in a preseason game.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Why would we want to blame JOB for Danny's lack of effort on D?
    It's simple.

    Granger's emergence as a serious NBA player coincided with JOB becoming coach. JOB's emphasis was always offense, 3 point shooting, and a fast pace. He gave lip service to defense but his actions betrayed the rhetoric. He considered Troy Murphy a great player.

    This was preached to Granger every day for many years. It clearly had an effect.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 12-21-2011 at 11:17 AM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Winner View Post
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    I disagree. Once he gets some players he can pass to and know they are going to score the ball, he will look much better on offense. Also, he drives well and doesn't lose control of the ball very often. He is a three point shot away from being the point guard we desperately need.
    Is this really an excuse anymore? Granger, Hansbrough, West, George Hill.... all these guys have shown they can score in a variety of ways.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-21-2011 at 11:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The disappointing duo of the game for me was Hibbert and Collison. Players at the 2 most important positions in the game of BB. Unless those 2 get their games together, it's gonna be a long long shortened season.
    Long way to go for this to be a trend, but yes, yes, and yes to your point - 2 essential position where we have to establish more quality an consistency. We may end up with barely mediocre. Hoping for major strides from these two, otherwise it's going to be a struggle.

    I'd also like to throw DG into discussion here even though his position is far from essential compared to C/PG. Where is the effort/passion/commitment? This guy was our captain last year and he was already fading. The guy should be at least an above average defender, yet if he doesn't impact the game by scoring, he's is not contributing anyplace else. That has to change.
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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    a PG needs to get all of the engine parts involved in moving. Otherwise, the engine is hit and miss while sputtering. I want a PASS 1st PG who plays great "D", and can score when necessary in order to keep the opposition honest. This sure isn't a description of Collison by any means.
    I think Lance provides everything you are asking for . . . except for great D. Nevertheless, he can provide decent defense because of his height and length.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    JT, absolutely agree on the Collison points. The one thing about it though, is that we got great value in that trade. I think Collison is a backup PG. I've thought that since we have had him. He can be a hell of a change of pace PG coming in for spot minutes.

    We match up poorly with the Bulls. Their best two aspects are their front court toughness and DRose. Our weakest aspects are front court toughness and terrible PG play.

    I think we are going to struggle with giving guys enough playing time to make them happy. It could be a bad recipe for the locker room this year. Hill should start, but won't. Hansborough won't start, but I think West might be the better fit with Collison, for now.

    Again, we have some easier early games, although on the road. I hope we win a few of those games and get our confidence and chemistry going. That will be the key to our season is how do we do getting out of the gate.
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    Default Re: Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Roy, IMO, is already in his own head, which is his typical MO now. And seeing West and Hansbrough out there together and being effective couldn't have helped his shaky confidence. I'm seriously concerned about Roy moving forward. How will he respond if we end up going with West and Hans in late game situations?
    Roy better be used to the idea of not being on the court at the end of games. If it's not West and Hansbrough, it will be Foster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Also, Paul George is intriguing the hell out of me,
    There was one play when West (I think) lobbed a pass to Paul George under the basket for a nice smooth score. I swear I thought it was Hibbert. PG is so tall he might be able to play some frontcourt minutes.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 12-21-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  37. #25

    Default Re: Postgame thread

    I really liked that the Pacers went toe to toe with the Bulls in rebounding. I also liked how often they were able to get to the line.

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