Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 174

Thread: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

  1. #76
    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,577

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    sorry shade

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to TheDon For This Useful Post:


  3. #77
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,171

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He said the source sucked.
    Oh, yeah? Well...


  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Shade For This Useful Post:


  5. #78

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    All right, here's what I've been able to find on Bradford. Here are his base salaries per year .....

    This year, $405,000

    2012, $1,205,000
    2013, $2,005,000
    2014, $2,805,000
    2015, $3,605,000

    How much of his bonus is left? I don't know, but the numbers you see would be the cap hit for anyone who trades for him. Which is pennies.
    I thought he got about a 40-50 mill signing bonus. The bonus is spread over the whole contract, but if they trade him, any remaining pro-rated amount is a cap-hit immediately. That's why it would be next to impossible to trade Manning if they pay him the 28 million. The 28 would be spread over 4 years - unless they trade him.

  6. #79
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,671

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I thought he got about a 40-50 mill signing bonus. The bonus is spread over the whole contract, but if they trade him, any remaining pro-rated amount is a cap-hit immediately. That's why it would be next to impossible to trade Manning if they pay him the 28 million. The 28 would be spread over 4 years - unless they trade him.
    I believed that was the rule since forever ago, but his cap hit this year was 22 million. That's 21.6 million difference. I don't think his bonus is evenly distributed that high. So I don't really know anymore.

  7. #80
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Age
    25
    Posts
    1,604

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I thought he got about a 40-50 mill signing bonus. The bonus is spread over the whole contract, but if they trade him, any remaining pro-rated amount is a cap-hit immediately. That's why it would be next to impossible to trade Manning if they pay him the 28 million. The 28 would be spread over 4 years - unless they trade him.
    There's some funky book keeping that can be done. I don't know how it would work, but I know we'd feel a lot of it the next year. Would be the right time for it though.

  8. #81
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Bonaventure, NY
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,835
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    No doubt, no way they win another game this year.


    By the way, whoever decided to play Peterson in this meaningless games should get fired today, stupid decision.
    LOL so the same Colts fans who wanted Peyton Manning and the other starters to play in meaningless games back in 09 get mad because Peterson is playing in one. O the hypocrisy of the Colts fans. So if Peyton plays back in 09 and blows his knee out in game 15 blowing your shot at the playoffs. I bet you would be the same fan who then says fire Polian.

    So which way is it? Play your players in meaningless games or not? The hypocrisy is hilarious.

  9. #82
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,927

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    LOL so the same Colts fans who wanted Peyton Manning and the other starters to play in meaningless games back in 09 get mad because Peterson is playing in one. O the hypocrisy of the Colts fans. So if Peyton plays back in 09 and blows his knee out in game 15 blowing your shot at the playoffs. I bet you would be the same fan who then says fire Polian.

    So which way is it? Play your players in meaningless games or not? The hypocrisy is hilarious.
    Not the same at all.

    For one thing, not everyone agrees with the idea of putting the team in the deep freeze before heading into the playoffs. They feel it robs the team of momentum as well as lets rust grow. And the Colts are a finesse team where timing matters so anything to mess up that timing is critical. And the Colts have a bit of history where it could be argued that a lack of meaningful minutes and a bye week left them ill prepared for the playoffs in 05.

    And now you have the model of the Patriots to consider keeping their foot on the pedal of an undefeated season and riding it all the way to the SB (where they lost a close game but you can't pin that loss on them not resting at the end of the year).

    The Colts won the SB in 06 without resting their starters or even a bye in the playoffs IIRC.

    Then you have to consider not everyone, including the Colts players, considered those games at the end of the season meaningless. They wanted to chase that undefeated record and a shot at history.

    Meanwhile, the Vikings are in the hunt for a top draft pick with the real possibility they could end up with the 1st pick. There were no playoffs or momentum to consider. Losing the game was more meaningful than winning the game. It's not like AP has been the picture of health this season.

    There's just no comparing the two situations to find any hypocrisy.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:


  11. #83
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Torn ACL for AP, I would fire everybody on the spot, now they are screwed for next year.

  12. #84
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,171

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Torn ACL for AP, I would fire everybody on the spot, now they are screwed for next year.
    Yep, they just lost their best player for next season and sabotaged their draft position to win a meaningless game.

    Take note, Bill and Jim.

  13. #85
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Bonaventure, NY
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,835
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Torn ACL for AP, I would fire everybody on the spot, now they are screwed for next year.
    They were screwed for next year regarless they have an old bad defense and a horrific offense. I would of not played him but I also wouldn't of played the Colts starters in 09 they would of played for nothing.

  14. #86
    Eating some cranbaisins The Sleeze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    940

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    If the Packers win tonight, and the Falcons beat the Saints tomorrow night, then the 49ers are locked into the 2 seed, meaning they won't have to play their starters the last week of the season....against the Rams.

    SO we should all be hoping for a Falcons victory tomorrow night to ensure the Rams get to play against the 49ers bench.

  15. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to The Sleeze For This Useful Post:


  16. #87
    Tree People to the Core! indygeezer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Cumberland
    Posts
    15,208
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    the way the Rams have looked I'm not sure that would even help them.
    If you get to thinkiní youíre a person of some influence, try orderiní somebody elseís dog around..

  17. #88

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    They were screwed for next year regarless they have an old bad defense and a horrific offense. I would of not played him but I also wouldn't of played the Colts starters in 09 they would of played for nothing.
    Clearly management agreed with you because they too thought a perfect season was nothing.. and in the end it was seeing as how we didn't even win an SB either so what was the point?

    The Vikings OTOH were competing for the #1 draft pick. Not that it guarantees anything but there wouldn't be nearly as much outrage(except for fantasy owners) if he had sat out.

    Not exactly the same here.

  18. #89
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,927

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    They were screwed for next year regarless they have an old bad defense and a horrific offense. I would of not played him but I also wouldn't of played the Colts starters in 09 they would of played for nothing.
    Let's not forget that when the Colts ditched the chance at a perfect season they then played the starters extended minutes in a following game (in the snow) to let them chase individual records/contract bonuses. If you want to talk about hypocritical then look no further than the Colts' FO and that move...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  19. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:


  20. #90
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Bonaventure, NY
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,835
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Let's not forget that when the Colts ditched the chance at a perfect season they then played the starters extended minutes in a following game (in the snow) to let them chase individual records/contract bonuses. If you want to talk about hypocritical then look no further than the Colts' FO and that move...
    I remember watching that game and to be honest if I was in charge none of the starters would of even made the trip to Buffalo.

    Basketball Fan im sure AP would of been mad having to sit out. (I would of made him) But those guys take pride in there craft. For instance Matt Forte is sleeping in one of thoes chambers that make you heal faster. He literally has 0 reason to play before he gets paid. Theses guys have very competitive personality's and im sure the Vikings brass wouldn't of benched him he if ask to play. With a guy like AP I would be shocked if he didnt want to play he is a warrior and a gamer.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 12-25-2011 at 06:48 PM.

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to pacer4ever For This Useful Post:


  22. #91
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,656
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sleeze View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If the Packers win tonight, and the Falcons beat the Saints tomorrow night, then the 49ers are locked into the 2 seed, meaning they won't have to play their starters the last week of the season....against the Rams.

    SO we should all be hoping for a Falcons victory tomorrow night to ensure the Rams get to play against the 49ers bench.
    Step one, complete.

    Unfortunately, tonight's Falcons/Saints game is in New Orleans, where the Saints are 6-0. Let's hope Atlanta brings their A-game.

  23. #92
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    3,656
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Son of a , Falcons. Stupid chokers.

    There's no way the Rams are beating a 49ers team looking to lock-up the NFC's #2 seed. It looks like the #1 pick depends on us losing to Jacksonville.

    I welcome you all aboard the one-week-only Jaguars' bandwagon.

  24. #93
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    44,171

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Well, the Saints may have just beat us again.

    First the Super Bowl, now Andrew Luck. *******s.

  25. #94
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,896

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Remember our talk about how much the #1 pick is worth compared to how much Peyton Manning is worth, trade wise?

    But let's start with Manning. The most any decision maker thought he was worth was a first- and a second-round pick. "I could see you making the case that he's worth what the Raiders gave up for Carson Palmer," one GM said, while adding that the Bengals essentially fleeced Oakland on the trade and no other team in the league would have made that deal.

    The lowest potential trade value I heard for Manning was two second-round picks. Several general managers suggested a first-round pick that could move to include additional picks based on production and durability, given the very significant risks with Manning's neck. But all these guys agreed that in the real world, given the unique circumstances of this situation, the Colts would not get close to that.

    These GMs figured it could take three first-round picks (swapping 2012 picks, and then dealing them in 2013 and 2014), plus a mid-round pick or two to get it done. Bottom line, the pick would not come cheap, if shopped at all, and the people I spoke to figured the team, whether it be the Rams or Colts, shoots for the moon.
    http://18to88.com/index.php?id=9786&option=com_content

  26. #95

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Remember our talk about how much the #1 pick is worth compared to how much Peyton Manning is worth, trade wise?




    http://18to88.com/index.php?id=9786&option=com_content
    I remember the conversation being in 2 years when Mannings value would be the highest unlike now when its the lowest it will ever be.

    You also said that if Eli would be traded now he wouldn't get that much in return. Maybe but I can point to Jay Cutler being traded to the Bears after he played a couple of years in Denver and they got 2 first round picks a third and a starting QB in return. They also had 4-5 teams lined up to make a deal with them.

    I don't think Manning gets you that much (do to age and injury) but to say that NO team would be willing to trade 2 first round picks for a HOF superbowl winning QB is just silly to me. IF Manning comes back from the injury and has a great year then teams would be willing to trade a lot for him IMO.

    All 32 teams won't value Manning the same just like all 32 teams won't value Luck the same but all you need is 3-4 teams that are desperate for a winning QB and NFL has a lot of those.

  27. #96
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,896

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    And Jay Cutler was 25 when that trade happened. The Bears knew they'd have the kid for quite a while. You think a team is going to give that much up for a 37 year old Peyton Manning?

    I would be shocked, absolutely shocked, if Peyton played another 5 years, so whatever team that trades for him is going to have a 3 year window AT MAX. And plus, Peyton isn't going to be traded to some bottom of the barrell team. Any team that trades for him is going to be a good team with the need of a QB. Like the Jets. Or Washington. Or maybe Dallas. Who really knows who will be where in two years, but PM isn't going to be traded to a rebuilding roster. There's no way he signs off on it.

    http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

    Here's a link to the draft value boards that NFL teams use. Notice how the #1 pick is worth 3000. The 16th pick is worth 1000.

    The difference between a #1 pick and a #16 pick is night and day. Teams want to get close to the same value, so if a team is going to trade away the #1 pick and it's 3,000 points, they want to get enough in return that is comparable to 3000.

    The picks that Denver ended up getting, and then trading away, was an 18th pick, 13th pick, 84th pick, and 140th.

    Using the chart the points would be 900, 1150, 170, and 36 points. Which is 2256 total points, or the 3rd pick in the draft.

  28. #97

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And Jay Cutler was 25 when that trade happened. The Bears knew they'd have the kid for quite a while. You think a team is going to give that much up for a 37 year old Peyton Manning?
    .
    Its funny how you ignore things...

    I don't think Manning gets you that much (do to age and injury)
    There is no doubt in my mind that Luck gets you more draft picks than Manning but to say that Manning only gets you one first round pick or less is just silly to me.

    He isn't Carson Palmer plan and simple. He's much better and everyone knows it. If Manning comes back for one year and plays at a all pro level then I expect teams like the Niners or even the Cowboys to be interested if Manning is on the trading block.

    The question is not who gets you more or higher picks its whether its worth it in the end. Your argument is that trading Luck for more picks is a faster rebuild even with a new Qb. That might be so but the hardest postion to fill in the NFL is a QB position and Luck is by far the most likely to be a slam dunk than any of the Qb's in this draft or in next years draft.

    If Manning only plays for 4 more years then why should the COlts trade Luck who has the potential to be a great QB for 10-13 years for a couple of positonal players.

    The value of a QB is much greater than any other postion and even if Luck is traded for a WR, DT, and a future QB those picks don't mean crap if that future QB doesn't turn out to all that good. I mean you can have a future Reggie Wayne or Dallas Clark in trading Luck for picks but they won't look like a Reggie Wayne or Clark if Dan Orlovsky is throwing them the ball.

    When you have a slam dunk pick you take the slam dunk pick and be happy with your two points. You don't kick it out for a 3 pointer.

  29. #98
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,896

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    I don't ignore them. You argue one thing while believing in another. It gets a little confusing.

    You're arguing that Manning can bring that much in return, but you don't think he can because of age and injury. You don't see the potential for a little confusion in there?




    There's no such thing as a "slam dunk" when talking about a prospect. And I want the best team, and not the best QB, because I'm tired of watching the best QB in the game be the one who doesn't win.
    Last edited by Since86; 12-28-2011 at 03:24 PM.

  30. #99

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't ignore them. You argue one thing while believing in another. It gets a little confusing.
    NO I am following arguments you made in 3 other threads which is why its confusing... Either way I get your perspective I just think you need a top 5 Qb to win or just be in multiple superbowls. Luck is the best pro prospect since a very long time so why would I want to trade him away?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's no such thing as a "slam dunk" when talking about a prospect. And I want the best team, and not the best QB, because I'm tired of watching the best QB in the game be the one who doesn't win.
    IN todays NFL you need a top Qb to be very competitive every year. IF the team isn't contructed well you need to FIRE the GM not blame the Qb.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 12-28-2011 at 03:57 PM.

  31. #100
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    20,896

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: NFL Draft Watch: The Race for Luck

    I'm not saying you don't have to have a good QB to win. I'm saying you can get a good QB in a lot of other places other than taking them with the #1 pick.

    Out of the top QBs in the NFL right now, how many are former #1 picks? Peyton Manning, and that's it.

    The Colts will be able to find a good to great QB else where.

    Swapping out PM for Andrew Luck does nothing to address the real problems of the team. The QB position is pretty far down on the list. Sam Bradford isn't working out to well right now.

Similar Threads

  1. Official 2010 NBA Draft Recruiting Center
    By Lance George in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 2258
    Last Post: 06-23-2010, 01:21 PM
  2. Official 2009 NBA Draft Recruiting Center
    By OakMoses in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 1872
    Last Post: 06-25-2009, 03:14 PM
  3. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft 9
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-20-2008, 10:05 PM
  4. The PD NBA Best Pick Left in the Draft 8
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-15-2008, 03:48 PM
  5. The PD NBA Draft
    By Jose Slaughter in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 05-21-2008, 04:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •