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Thread: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I think the best lineup will be:

    Hill
    George
    Granger
    West
    Hibbert
    ...

    That's a team that can win a lot of games. I'd say 45-50 in a regular 82 game season. They aren't as good as Miami, Chicago, or Boston. I still think New York and Orlando (with Howard) are better, and the Hawks are pretty comparable.

    We should be in contention for a 5-6 seed. If things shake out perfectly, I could see us sneaking into the 4th seed over New York and Orlando, but I really think New York is a much better team. I think the ideal scenario is trying to get into that 4 vs. 5 match-up and hope you're playing the Knicks. That's the only way I see this team having a shot at making it to the 2nd round. Baby steps.
    I agree with your post, for once.

    I do think that Collison will be the PG starting out, but would not be surprised to see Hill take over the starting role at some point in the season.

    If I were pushed for where the Pacers would finish right now, I would also pick 5-6. However, I believe that our depth might enable us to bypass New York and Orlando and capture a 4th seed.

    If we are able to do that, and assuming Hansbrough, Hibbert and George continue growing at a rapid rate this season, then I can see the roster as is competing with the EC's big three the following season. A front court banger picked up between now and then will only strengthen that belief.

  2. #27
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    For those of you saying that our multiple scoring threats plus a well-designed play will be enough to score against good defense in end -game situations, you're basically saying that things are going to happen this year that didn't happen last year.

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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    For those of you saying that our multiple scoring threats plus a well-designed play will be enough to score against good defense in end -game situations, you're basically saying that things are going to happen this year that didn't happen last year.

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    So you wouldn't say that our scoring threat has improved with Hill & West?

    Also, you expect our offense to be exactly the same as the simplified one Frank drew up to replace the previous mess?

    That's two HUGE changes right there.
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  5. #29

    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Last season, David West shot 49% in clutch situations - last 5 minutes, neither team ahead by more than five points - a very good figure. He may help us more at the end of games than some are suggesting here.

    In the following analysis of clutch players, he ranks quite a bit higher than any of the current Pacers and any of the guys the Pacers have been reported to be pursuing: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

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  7. #30
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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    For those of you saying that our multiple scoring threats plus a well-designed play will be enough to score against good defense in end -game situations, you're basically saying that things are going to happen this year that didn't happen last year.

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    Didn't you notice how much better we were at executing out of timeouts once Frank took the helm (with the notable exception of end of game situations vs. Chicago in the playoffs)? I know that the shortened season and training camp doesn't allow the coach to fully implement his vision, but I tend to think that with more scoring options and a full off-season Vogel can build on what appeared to be a budding strength last season. I suspect that those end of game meltdowns in the playoffs vs. Chicago may actually be helpful to Vogel has he moves forward looking for ways to avoid them by employing an increased number of scoring threats in the future.

    So yeah, a lot is different this year in terms of coaching staff and players, so I am indeed expecting different results. Not all positive, mind you - but different for sure.
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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    For those of you saying that our multiple scoring threats plus a well-designed play will be enough to score against good defense in end -game situations, you're basically saying that things are going to happen this year that didn't happen last year.

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    Uhm, yea, that's exactly what we're saying. David West, George Hill, and Paul and Roy with another year of experience are all saying that, too.

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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Also with our new found offensive weapons in hill and west and our philosophy of playing hard on defense inserted by Vogel those situations where well have to have that guy are far and few hopefully.

    And there are only so many guys that can do that in this league anyway two in particular come to mind and that's Kobe and Melo... So idk but I think we should be fine.

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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    For those of you saying that our multiple scoring threats plus a well-designed play will be enough to score against good defense in end -game situations, you're basically saying that things are going to happen this year that didn't happen last year.
    I think the acquisition of another proven scorer on Granger's level makes a HUGE difference in this regard. Since he is a scoring PF with a deadly jumper, also makes a big difference for Roy. Double teaming Roy just became extremely dangerous for the Opposing team.

    That was exactly what David West was talking about on Pacers Crate, he said opposing team's defensive strategy was to load up on Danny and Roy, with West here, they can't do it.

    Opens up the offense for everyone.
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    I guess I should back off a little bit. Yes, obviously we've added better players who will help our offense at all times during the games. I see more late game scoring potential in a Collison/West PnP than in anything we did all year last year. However, we're still in a situation where we have to rely on a play to create a basket for us. This is, quite often, not a good situation. I've seen brilliant coaches with well-schooled players have plays fail countless times. Why do you think most NBA end-game plays are isos? It's because they are the most effective. In close games, the team with the best one-on-one offensive player wins more often than not.

    Unfortunately, being in that situation wasn't a course that was available to the Pacers. I whole-heartedly approve of what Bird & Co. have done this offseason, I just think that it's a mistake to think that collective talent and well-designed plays win close basketball games.

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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by OakMoses View Post
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    Why do you think most NBA end-game plays are isos? It's because they are the most effective. In close games, the team with the best one-on-one offensive player wins more often than not.
    I think this would be the case because too many teams don't have a defender of the same caliber as they have shooters. Part of the problem with the game, I think. However, you can't count on teams having weaker defenders than you unless you are lucky enough to have one of those top-5 offense guys. For the rest of the teams, they need to figure out how to increase the percentage a player can get open.

    Having multiple offensive options on the floor and a play designed to get one of them open is harder, but it is going to be a lot more effective because the defense has to stay put rather than focus on one guy.
    BillS

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  18. #37
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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Many fans are too eager to spend the Pacer's money. Be patient. The trade deadlineoffers new opportunity.

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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    I thought refusing to overpay for Nene and Crawford was strategic.

    I still think Bird is amassing assets for a larger trade.
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    Default Re: Our signings thus far have been excellent but not exactly strategic

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I thought refusing to overpay for Nene and Crawford was strategic.

    I still think Bird is amassing assets for a larger trade.
    I was wondering the same thing. I'll have to see how he plays his cards in these last few moves. West is a good player if he's still at the same level but he doesn't fit in with our team as well as he would a team like the Magic. He should be very tradable is he proves that he can play.

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