View Poll Results: If 14m is Bird's limit, should we overpay for Nene?

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  • No, 14m is either just enough or already too much

    63 56.25%
  • Yes, but only 15m

    26 23.21%
  • Yes, but only 16m

    9 8.04%
  • Yes, but only 17m

    4 3.57%
  • Yes, even 18m

    4 3.57%
  • I can't decide

    6 5.36%
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Thread: Should we overpay for Nene?

  1. #51
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    The difference, however, is that sometimes you have to overpay to make real progress. The Pacers are going to be hard pressed to avoid that, particularly when talent is concentrating in other places...
    In part i want to give you that one, which is why i agreed to say 14 mio for Nene, but that is indeed the absolutge max and already seriously overpaid.
    I dont care who signs him for more, they will come to regret it.

    he plays a physical part in a contact sport, and he is 29 with a history.

    JO never really recovered from the 04-05 injury/suspension, yet in the 2 following years he still gave us close to 20/10

    he really dropped of when he turned 29 and that is not unfamiliar for PF's
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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  2. #52

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I guess I don't understand 'pro-rated'. ?
    there are only 66 games this year so salaries are reduced to 66/82 of their normal value.

    example. salary cap = $58M. max salary of 25% is 58 x 25% = 14.5. 14.5 is the cap number. but this year the players will not get their full salary because the league only plays 66 games. the salary is pro-rated for that 66 game by taking the 14.5 x 66/82 = 12.9. a guy like marc gasol will only earn 12.9 million this year because the teams play less games than normal.

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  4. #53
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    I'm not claiming JO, when originally signed, was as overpaid. But his contract became far worse than what Nene's could possibly be.

    You disguise the real facts Able. The reality is that he was paid almost 19M a year the last two years in Indiana and was owed well over 20M a year his last two years of his contract signed with Indiana. At that time, he was on the bench about half the time and was owed over 44M the last two years...and his productivity and effectiveness was terrible. Dude never was efficient for us...never over 50% and as a big man that's weak.

    Anyway, the point is, his contract was many, many times worse than Nene's contract would be and worse than it could be.

    Edit: BTW, technically we didn't pay JO 44+ million his last two years since he was traded, but in reality we committed to it. There is a cost there that we did incur.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-10-2011 at 06:22 PM.

  5. #54
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    If we can get him for 15, then I would, it would be valuable for our team, if we want to contend then we need to act like it and make the moves.
    Why so SERIOUS

  6. #55
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Anderson Varejao looks better everyday. He solves the b/u C enter situation and can start or b/u the PF spot. He's a tuff smashmouth energy player who can bring the "D". He does not interfer with Hibbert's "O", and helps Hibbert in the paint with the "D". He's got a very reasonable type of contract. JMOAA


    Seriously, who would want to look forward to playing against the Pacers with Foster, Hans, and Varejao tuffness?
    I know that you'd love to get SideShow Bob....but despite the assumption that the Cavs are rebuilding, SideShow Bob...is owed roughly $36+ mil over the next 4 seasons....which IMHO...is a fairly good price for a Startinq quality Center. IMHO....he's a good piece to have as a foundation for a rebuilding Team like the Cavs.

    Ignoring that....if he could be had....how much would you be willing to give up to get him?

    I'd think that it would minimally cost a 1st+TPE+Prospect to get him....IMHO...he's not going to be had for mere capspace and I doubt that adding a 1st round pick would make much of a difference.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that he's a great Player to have...I'm just saying that I think that he will come at a cost that we may not want to pay.
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  7. #56

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I know that you'd love to get SideShow Bob....but despite the assumption that the Cavs are rebuilding, SideShow Bob...is owed roughly $36+ mil over the next 4 seasons....which IMHO...is a fairly good price for a Startinq quality Center. IMHO....he's a good piece to have as a foundation for a rebuilding Team like the Cavs.

    Ignoring that....if he could be had....how much would you be willing to give up to get him?

    I'd think that it would minimally cost a 1st+TPE+Prospect to get him....IMHO...he's not going to be had for mere capspace and I doubt that adding a 1st round pick would make much of a difference.

    I'm not disagreeing with you that he's a great Player to have...I'm just saying that I think that he will come at a cost that we may not want to pay.


    Varejao's 4th year is either a TO or not guaranteed. Which makes his contract even better.

    They just drafted PF Tristan Thompson, so my feeling is a combo of a young player (Rush or Stephenson), 1st, and Cap. They are in a rebuilding mode., so who knows.

  8. #57
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    I can live with Nene at 14, or if Chandler has set the market for Nene with his 58 mil contract, then I could live with that which would average 14.5.
    If we land Nene or anyone else I hope we front load the contract. It isn't a big difference from my understanding. A 58 mil contract front loaded would start at 15.4 and go down to 13.5. At least it gives us a little more cap room at the end. At some point we have to draw the line. I think teams overpaying now will be at our mercy in a few years if we can stomach being patient. I think NJ's plan is a flawed one under the new cba.

  9. #58
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    I find it odd that we lived with Posey, TJ, Tinsley, Murphy and MDJ being paid something north of 40M a year and have heartburn about spending less than half that much on a much better piece to the puzzle.

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  11. #59
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    If Dwight is definitely off the market, then I reverse my previous stance and say that, yes, we need to go hard after Nene. Then throw the max at Eric Gordon next year and roll with a team of:

    Hibbert
    Nene
    Granger
    Gordon
    Collison

    That team could do some damage.

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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    If Dwight is definitely off the market, then I reverse my previous stance and say that, yes, we need to go hard after Nene. Then throw the max at Eric Gordon next year and roll with a team of:

    Hibbert
    Nene
    Granger
    Gordon
    Collison

    That team could do some damage.
    unless Herb Simon is gonna pay the tax and deep into the tax that isn't gonna happen regardless if it could happen.

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  14. #61
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    14 mil for 12/7....
    .

    Frank Vogel says "Killer instinct, start strong, build a lead and then step on their throats."

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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    14 mil for 12/7....
    You're right; we should shoot for a double-double power forward like Troy Murphy. Plus, he shoots way better than Nene.

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  17. #63
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Considering we competed well with Chicago and added George Hill and Lance Stephenson...adding Nene could make us a contender. It sounds crazy, but we were a .500 team last year and this could push us up toward contention. At least a shot at the ECF. That's how I see this move. It's going to take more talent guys...and it's not going to get handed to us.

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  19. #64
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I find it odd that we lived with Posey, TJ, Tinsley, Murphy and MDJ being paid something north of 40M a year and have heartburn about spending less than half that much on a much better piece to the puzzle.
    It's actually because of those toxic deals that some of us are so wary about overpaying for second-tier and lower talent.

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  21. #65
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    You're right; we should shoot for a double-double power forward like Troy Murphy. Plus, he shoots way better than Nene.
    Where that come from? lil over the top isn't it!
    .

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  22. #66
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    You're right; we should shoot for a double-double power forward like Troy Murphy. Plus, he shoots way better than Nene.

    NEEDZ MOR GREEN

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  24. #67
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer Fan View Post
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    Where that come from? lil over the top isn't it!
    Honestly, I think it's about as over-the-top as your post.

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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    unless Herb Simon is gonna pay the tax and deep into the tax that isn't gonna happen regardless if it could happen.
    I'd have to crunch the numbers, but I don't see why we can't afford that while other teams can somehow afford to pay 2-3 superstars.

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  27. #69

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    I want Nene much like everyone else. I just don't want Larry to talk himself into way overpaying Nene just to get him here. We'd have an Okafor situation on our hands. A productive player for sure, but one so overpaid it hamstrings us financially and is basically untradeable.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

  28. #70
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aw Heck View Post
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    I want Nene much like everyone else. I just don't want Larry to talk himself into way overpaying Nene just to get him here. We'd have an Okafor situation on our hands. A productive player for sure, but one so overpaid it hamstrings us financially and is basically untradeable.
    The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

    Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.

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  30. #71
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Honestly, I think it's about as over-the-top as your post.
    You would think that way, Sorry for your poor judgement.
    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 12-10-2011 at 09:36 PM.
    .

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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

    Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.
    I've been saying this forever but you know "next year free agents are better"

  32. #73
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

    Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.
    This.

    Hello! I think we have a winner.

  33. #74
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The question is, does it really even matter anymore? If players of Nene's calibur are the best we can hope to attract to Indy, then who are we holding our money for?

    Dwight Howard and Chris Paul are not walking through that door.
    That logic sounds good, but really it supports not overpaying him. If you can't get a superstar, then you need to maximize every dollar to get as many good players as you can get. You don't do that by overpaying one guy like he IS that superstar you can't get.

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  35. #75
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    That logic sounds good, but really it supports not overpaying him. If you can't get a superstar, then you need to maximize every dollar to get as many good players as you can get. You don't do that by overpaying one guy like he IS that superstar you can't get.
    It takes talent to win and we are short of it. Who else is available? Just sit tight and not overpay next summer too?

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