View Poll Results: If 14m is Bird's limit, should we overpay for Nene?

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  • No, 14m is either just enough or already too much

    63 56.25%
  • Yes, but only 15m

    26 23.21%
  • Yes, but only 16m

    9 8.04%
  • Yes, but only 17m

    4 3.57%
  • Yes, even 18m

    4 3.57%
  • I can't decide

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Thread: Should we overpay for Nene?

  1. #26

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    He's a game changer because of what his presence does to the rest of our team. He makes us much bigger, he gives us a much needed big, strong, athletic finisher at the 4, he gives us two strong options at the C spot. That would have a DRAMATIC effect on this team, IMO.

    I here ya, but I just can't see 17 mil or more to get him. Unless the 4th year is a Team Option, which I highly doubt he'd be willing to do. It's a hard tuff decision, and one I'm glad I don't have to be the one to make.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    The Pacers have until March the 15th to find the right pieces to the puzzle. Getting caught up in the heat of a bidding war isn't prudent way to do things IMO.

    What is the date that you can trade a signed FA this year?

  3. #28

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    He's a game changer because of what his presence does to the rest of our team. He makes us much bigger, he gives us a much needed big, strong, athletic finisher at the 4, he gives us two strong options at the C spot. That would have a DRAMATIC effect on this team, IMO.
    I think a lot of his talent gets minimized until we gt a true point guard that can deliver the ball in transition or set up easy buckets in half court. For example, Josh is an amazing finisher who will look much, much better on the Lakers (if they get Paul) or Grizzlies.

    The opposite will happen here. Nene is not a shot creator and Karl's offense was designed effectively to maximize Nene's strengths.

    I hope we get him because he appears to be the best available piece, but I think his production will drop without someone like Rondo here.

  4. #29

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    The Pacers have until March the 15th to find the right pieces to the puzzle. Getting caught up in the heat of a bidding war isn't prudent way to do things IMO.

    What is the date that you can trade a signed FA this year?
    This is crucial. If it were before March 15, the amnesty player strategy would be the best way for us to collect assets, IMO.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    This is crucial. If it were before March 15, the amnesty player strategy would be the best way for us to collect assets, IMO.
    But are those amnesty players really going to help you to win anything? they are getting amnesty for a reason, they could be nice additions if you want to complement the players you have but they shouldn't be "the additions".

  6. #31
    Member 2minutes twoa's Avatar
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    Overpaying is a slippery slope. Let's say you pay Nene $17m a year. Then, when Hibbert is due an extension, he sees that his numbers are similar to Nene's. So guess what, Roy feels he deserves $17m a year. Slightly overpaying is one thing, but it will effect the other players on the team.


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  8. #32

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twoa View Post
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    Overpaying is a slippery slope. Let's say you pay Nene $17m a year. Then, when Hibbert is due an extension, he sees that his numbers are similar to Nene's. So guess what, Roy feels he deserves $17m a year. Slightly overpaying is one thing, but it will effect the other players on the team.


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    More likely Hibbert's agent feels he's worth 17 mil and starts filling his head with jumping ship for more money.

  9. #33
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    More likely Hibbert's agent feels he's worth 17 mil and starts filling his head with jumping ship for more money.
    The Max for Hibbert would be like 12.5mil

  10. #34
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    If he was on the other side of 30 and I knew we had enough money to keep Hibbert and George, yes. But that's not the case.

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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    If he was on the other side of 30 and I knew we had enough money to keep Hibbert and George, yes. But that's not the case.
    Nene's only 29, and wont turn 30 until next season's training camp (September 13).

    11-12: 29
    12-13: 30
    13-14: 31
    14-15: 32

    That's not bad, age-wise. Even if he declines at 32, he'll be a large expiring contract by that point.

  12. #36
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Who's going to blink first between Indiana and New Jersey? On paper, both teams have the right team makeup where Nene would be a great addition to either team. He should come to Indiana though, because our players will be around longer.

  13. #37

    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Woah, wait. Is this true??

    NetsDaily.com @NetsDaily 9 mins Reply Retweeted Favorite Open
    From @chadfordinsider last night. Max for Nene, $15.5M. That's roughly $64M over 4. tinyurl.com/7aq77k3

    @chadfordinsider
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    Max deal #'s under new CBA: 25% is $12.9 M (i.e. Gasol) 30% is $15.5 M (ie. Nene) 35% is $18.1 M (player with 10+ yr service)

    The MOST Nene can get from anyone but Denver is a deal starting at $15.5m???
    FWIW, chad ford's numbers, 12.9, 15.5 and 18.1 are the pro-rated amounts for this season. the salary cap numbers are still 14.5, 17.4 and 20.2 or so. the salary cap hits are still 25% of 58 = 14.5, 30% of 58 = 17.4.

    nene has a max cap number of 30% which is about 17.5 or so. that gives him a total max contract amount of $74M or so. [base of 17.5 and raises of 4.5% for 4 years.]

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  15. #38
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Here are the reasons why I think we should overpay up to 16-17M/yr:

    1) Granger is entering his prime now. The next 4 years are crucial.
    2) Nene is an incredibly efficient offensive player scoring over 60% from the field.
    3) Nene provides a quality big front-line with Hibbert. He's 6'11", not pretending to be a big. David West is a pretender and so are most. Good luck facing the Laker front-line or any of the contenders with your miniature PF.
    4) Nene can play C when a mismatch gives Hibbert problems. Tyler shifts right next to Nene for a small front-line. He is just a great complement for both Hans and Hibbs.
    5) 4 years is not forever. I find it odd that we are now concerned about this contract after paying many bench players 8-12M/yr to stink. One Nene costs less than two of these guys and will get us twice as many wins.
    6) We paid well over 20M/yr for a PF who shot 44% from the floor and only played half the games. Now, that contract was bad!

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  17. #39
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Here are the reasons why I think we should overpay up to 16-17M/yr:

    1) Granger is entering his prime now. The next 4 years are crucial.
    2) Nene is an incredibly efficient offensive player scoring over 60% from the field.
    3) Nene provides a quality big front-line with Hibbert. He's 6'11", not pretending to be a big. David West is a pretender and so are most. Good luck facing the Laker front-line or any of the contenders with your miniature PF.
    4) Nene can play C when a mismatch gives Hibbert problems. Tyler shifts right next to Nene for a small front-line. He is just a great complement for both Hans and Hibbs.
    5) 4 years is not forever. I find it odd that we are now concerned about this contract after paying many bench players 8-12M/yr to stink. One Nene costs less than two of these guys and will get us twice as many wins.
    6) We paid well over 20M/yr for a PF who shot 44% from the floor and only played half the games. Now, that contract was bad!
    I agree with all of these things and would love to have him, but past patterns and what Larry said in the press conference leads me to believe that there is no chance we 'overpay' for Nene.

  18. #40
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Starting PF should cost 8-10 million. Solid Center reserve 5-7 million. Nene would have been worth 15 Million.

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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    FWIW, chad ford's numbers, 12.9, 15.5 and 18.1 are the pro-rated amounts for this season. the salary cap numbers are still 14.5, 17.4 and 20.2 or so. the salary cap hits are still 25% of 58 = 14.5, 30% of 58 = 17.4.

    nene has a max cap number of 30% which is about 17.5 or so. that gives him a total max contract amount of $74M or so. [base of 17.5 and raises of 4.5% for 4 years.]
    I guess I don't understand 'pro-rated'. ?

  20. #42
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Starting PF should cost 8-10 million. Solid Center reserve 5-7 million. Nene would have been worth 15 Million.
    I like how you are thinking, but I would adjust that slightly.

    Nene, as a PF is worth a solid 12M as your starter. He will play C at least 10 minutes a game and that's probably worth 4-5M in my book.

    Consider this. West could not play PF and is injured. At most, I'd be willing to throw 7-8M at him. Too risky and quite honestly doesn't add much when you have Tyler available....and quite frankly Granger is probably capable of playing there some minutes.

    Milsap would be a consolation prize. Good player, but the drawback is that he cannot play C legitimately.

    Nene is probably the best big the Pacers are going to have a shot at for a 2 or 3 years...and I'm afraid we will not have a better chance in Granger's prime...

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  22. #43
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    I guess I don't understand 'pro-rated'. ?
    I would assume it means that since this is a shortened season, the first year of contracts signed this offseason will be reduced (like everyone else's contract this year) to compensate for the missed games.

    For example:

    We will be playing roughly 80% of the normal 82 games this year. That would mean that a $15.5 million dollar contract X 80% would equal 12.4 million dollars this season. I would assume for cap purposes the contract would still be considered a $15.5 million dollar contract the first year.
    Last edited by Wage; 12-10-2011 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Gave example

  23. #44
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Here are the reasons why I think we should overpay up to 16-17M/yr:

    1) Granger is entering his prime now. The next 4 years are crucial.
    2) Nene is an incredibly efficient offensive player scoring over 60% from the field.
    3) Nene provides a quality big front-line with Hibbert. He's 6'11", not pretending to be a big. David West is a pretender and so are most. Good luck facing the Laker front-line or any of the contenders with your miniature PF.
    4) Nene can play C when a mismatch gives Hibbert problems. Tyler shifts right next to Nene for a small front-line. He is just a great complement for both Hans and Hibbs.
    5) 4 years is not forever. I find it odd that we are now concerned about this contract after paying many bench players 8-12M/yr to stink. One Nene costs less than two of these guys and will get us twice as many wins.
    6) We paid well over 20M/yr for a PF who shot 44% from the floor and only played half the games. Now, that contract was bad!

    I don't agree with you and I'll keep it at that, I think 14 was overpaying, but market determines real value, not what we think.
    However I have a question, who's that PF you refer to in 6 ?
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  24. #45
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    However I have a question, who's that PF you refer to in 6 ?

  25. #46
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    well that would be wrong, he never made that kind of money in Indiana, he was traded the year he threatened making 19.2 million and while we can argue JO after his injuries, when he signed for 13 mio starting max contract, he was worth it and others were ready to give it to him as well.

    but 13 starting, and you are prepared to give 17 starting to Nene? for 4 years ? JO was a double double player when he got that contract, Nene is not even close to that class.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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  26. #47
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    I don't agree with you and I'll keep it at that, I think 14 was overpaying, but market determines real value, not what we think.
    However I have a question, who's that PF you refer to in 6 ?
    Ok. JO played 42 games his last year and shot 44% from the floor.

    Historically he may have been more like 65% of his games and average out to 45% his last 5 years. Still I hope no one thinks that was a good contract.

    In contrast, Nene has averaged 78 games a year and over 60% from the floor for the last 3 years.

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  28. #48
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    well that would be wrong, he never made that kind of money in Indiana, he was traded the year he threatened making 19.2 million .

  29. #49
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    well that would be wrong, he never made that kind of money in Indiana, he was traded the year he threatened making 19.2 million and while we can argue JO after his injuries, when he signed for 13 mio starting max contract, he was worth it and others were ready to give it to him as well.

    but 13 starting, and you are prepared to give 17 starting to Nene? for 4 years ? JO was a double double player when he got that contract, Nene is not even close to that class.
    Murphy is the double double king. Now what was your point?

    Jermaine was a good player and might have been worth his original contract. He had far more potential than Nene. In this instance, however, I'm agreeing that this would be overpaying. The difference, however, is that sometimes you have to overpay to make real progress. The Pacers are going to be hard pressed to avoid that, particularly when talent is concentrating in other places...

  30. #50
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    Default Re: Should we overpay for Nene?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Ok. JO played 42 games his last year and shot 44% from the floor.

    Historically he may have been more like 65% of his games and average out to 45% his last 5 years. Still I hope no one thinks that was a good contract.

    In contrast, Nene has averaged 78 games a year and over 60% from the floor for the last 3 years.
    71.96 % over all 8 years

    94% over the 1st 4 years
    63% over the last 4 years

    numbers also influenced by 15 games suspension, not taken out

    salary over the 1st 4 years

    6,325
    6,900
    13,152
    14,173


    Nene, taken 8 years as well, starting his 2nd year (9 year vet)

    68.17 over tall 8 years

    1st 4 years 60.06%
    last 4 years 76.22%


    sources patricia and basketballreference
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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