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Thread: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

  1. #1
    Long time fan diamonddave00's Avatar
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    Default Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    The lockout changed nothing.

    Dwight Howard and Chris Paul will both end up Lakers. The Knicks add a bigman Tyson Chandler . The Heat add a glue player Shane Battier and likely Jermaine O'Neal and Chauncey Billups. The Nets add Nene , Celtics add David West. The Bulls either Rip Hamilton or Jamal Crawford. The big markets get stronger.

    The Pacers, Kings, and other smaller market teams get nothing in spite of having huge cap space. Nothing has changed

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    I was trying to wait for trades to get finalized before starting a very similar thread but yeah, so far the big markets are dominating this off-season.

    The system is still broken.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    With how everyone reacted after the vetoed trade, I've given up hope it will ever be even. It's always going to be like this. No one except the people that are in the small market care about the small market teams.

    Even sportscasters that aren't fans of them, want the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics, etc. to have those dominant teams because they are big cities.

  6. #4

    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    As long as the best players come from uber urban environments, big cities will have the advantage. Can't make people love indianapolis over LA.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    It is time for us to beat them despite it being their league. That is why the Spurs are my second favorite team.

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    They slightly tweaked the system, they didn't fix it - the only thing they may have fixed is the owners wallets. It would have cost the season to actually fix the salary cap and salary structure. A hard cap, non guaranteed contracts, and no max salary is what was needed.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    How can you devise a system that keeps players from going where they want to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    It is time for us to beat them despite it being their league. That is why the Spurs are my second favorite team.
    The pacers passed on their opportunity to replicate the spurs when they continued to trot out mediocre veterans in an attempt to win meaningless games instead evaluating and seasoning their young players. Spurs were built on two #1 draft picks. Smart moves obviously followed, but they mean jack without a superstar.
    Last edited by rm1369; 12-10-2011 at 09:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    There's no modification of the CBA that'll make Indianapolis more attractive to young rich people than NYC, Miami or LA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    How can you devise a system that keeps players from going where they want to go.
    No max salary would allow the true superstars to demand so much money that teaming up would nearly be impossible. The Miami players were willing to give up a couple million each, but I doubt they would give up significantly more.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    How can you devise a system that keeps players from going where they want to go.
    A hard cap would go a long way in equalizing everything. Sure, superstars could still team-up, but they'd have to take drastic paycuts to do it.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Stern attempted to when he vetoed the Paul deal and was blasted by the media. But with minor tweaking he will ok it , he had no intention of truly not allowing it, he just wanted to put up a front of caring about equality.

    Orlando will accept Bynum and his bum knees for Howard and drop back to the also runs being happy just making the playoffs. New Orleans is doomed to probably moving again.

    But hey NYC, L.A., Chicago and Miami will be on tv all the time so small market fans will still get to see the stars often. Say all you want about Daniel Gilbert but his last comment you may as well call 25 of the 30 NBA teams the Washington Generals was dead on.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    We will be in lock out mode in 6 years. Count on it and without someway to lock up your superstar it will always be thus. The NFL has it right, mostly. Two franchise tags might do it. I am thinking that maybe the Simons are not willing to spend money at least that is the way it looks today. Nene really should have been given the max. Of course he still may have not come here. He is the one player that makes the Pacers much better.
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    If this is a reaction to Nene, in that case it appeared to be much more about money than location. Of course we will probably never know exactly how much was put on the table, but it is pretty clear Bird was not going to pay Nene $17 million per year.

    We'll find the right guys, through trades or otherwise. I'd rather do that than be forced to overpay for a guy to make up for an inferior location and thereby hurt your team. Yes, Indy isn't LA or NY, but once most guys come here and get their feet on the ground they appear to like it well enough. If we can get a fairly well-regarded guy here through trade and he can tell all his friends that Indy isn't a bad place, who knows what can happen in the future. While again we will never know, I am pretty sure that probably contributed to us getting Byron.

    I'm sure there was a similar thread when the Lakers signed Payton and Malone. Yes, big names are something, but a Pacers championship brought by components of our young core today would not be unprecedented. Look at SA and Detroit. We can do it too someday, especially since we are one of the better and more well regarded small market franchises historically.
    Last edited by idioteque; 12-10-2011 at 09:10 AM.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    I would like to see the owners be able to make blind votes to approve trades. 75% approval required. That would result in far more parity because the better teams wouldn't be able to make many moves.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    We will be in lock out mode in 6 years. Count on it and without someway to lock up your superstar it will always be thus. The NFL has it right, mostly. Two franchise tags might do it. I am thinking that maybe the Simons are not willing to spend money at least that is the way it looks today. Nene really should have been given the max. Of course he still may have not come here. He is the one player that makes the Pacers much better.
    Excellent post Owl. The NBA has become a two tier league. While Dan Gilbert isn't popular, he is mostly right on the mark. 25 Washington Generals teams and 5 that might have a shot at the title. I follow this game only because I prefer basketball and these are the best players in the world...but my interest in the league is beginning to wane. Dwight and CP3 to LA and other big market teams raking in the free agents this round is chipping away...

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Excellent post Owl. The NBA has become a two tier league. While Dan Gilbert isn't popular, he is mostly right on the mark. 25 Washington Generals teams and 5 that might have a shot at the title. I follow this game only because I prefer basketball and these are the best players in the world...but my interest in the league is beginning to wane. Dwight and CP3 to LA and other big market teams raking in the free agents this round is chipping away...
    Ya honestly the last couple days as things progressed and it became obvious the power teams were only going to get stronger, the more i thought im gonna have to drop my interest in the NBA soon... Only reason i don't want to is i don't want to abondon my Pacers.. Also the talent level in the league is unmatched. But i much rather watch IU and other college basketball than this league that obviously just isn't built very well for teams to be even. Players should have next to 0 control when they are under contract. They signed with you, they play for you, unless you decide you don't want them. NFL, MLB is built MUCH better.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    How can you devise a system that keeps players from going where they want to go.
    I think removing the max on individual salaries, even in current system, would help. Guys wouldn't take less to play with their buddies if less was $15mm a year, not $2mm.

    The CP3 trade to the Lakers doesn't bother me as originally proposed. They gave up a lot of talent to get Paul. If they manage to turn Bynum into Howard, that's a different story.

    The DWest to the Celtics trade is sketchy. I don't understand how you can give up absolutely nothing and get a borderline all-star.

    The most offensive thing, however, is JO asking to be waived if he's traded to the Hornets so he can go sign with the Heat. Waived players still get their full salary. There's a lot of hypocrisy here. Guaranteed contracts are a blood issue for the players, so teams have to pay them whether or not the team is interested in having them around or not. However, as soon as a player gets on a team they don't want to play for, they expect to be released so they can go sign somewhere else while still getting paid for the contract they essentially refused to honor. If I'm Demps/Stern and I wind up with JO, I'd tell him to sit at home and get fined until he decided he wanted to honor the contract he signed.
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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    The most infuriating part of all of this is that the teams with lots of cap space are losing all the big-name FAs to teams that are already contenders and have no space to add them w/o lopsided trades. It's not a coincidence that those "big cap space" teams are all small markets.

    Sign-and-trades need to go. They cheat the spirit of the system.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    That was the point that irks me too Shade. Teams wait abiding by the rules building cap space to get "name" free agents, then big market teams with no cap room are able to get around rules to magicly get them.

    Tyson Chandler (tho not a big fan of his) signs with Knicks but magically becomes a sign and trade for a scrub giving the Mavs an 8 mil trade exemption to acquire a 10 mil a year player in spite of being well over the cap.

    Boston gets David West the same way.

    Even the Hornets / Lakers/ Rockets deal would give the Lakers an 8 mil + trade exemption , enough to taKe Turkoglu with Howard for Bynum.

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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Well, even though I was a militant hardcap-er, the most important thing to come out of the new CBA is revenue sharing. Sounds like the Pacers will get an extra $10M a year thanks to it.

    Now, you may say big deal, that doesn't help us compete. But yeah, it does. We may not sign FA's, but Simon has shown he's willing to spend money when we can put a winning product on the floor. It'll help with trades and keeping our young core together.

    Also, it'll hopefully keep PS&E from gouging the city again.
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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    I like your ideas Geezer.

    Another option is for the small market teams to not do any spending. That would devalue the league as a whole. Bring on guys like Jeff Pendergraph. Better yet, bring Britton Johnson back and make a mockery of the league. I'll go out there and play for the minimum. If they want the Washington Generals to compete against, let'em have it.

    I'd rather see that so I would just turn off the channel.

  37. #23
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    The more I think about it, the more I like not spending a penny more than required. Let the teams all stink except of course Chicago, Boston, LA and Miami. Revenue sharing is good. At least the owners make a marginal profit and the tax payer doesn't get the shaft.

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  39. #24
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    The most infuriating part of all of this is that the teams with lots of cap space are losing all the big-name FAs to teams that are already contenders and have no space to add them w/o lopsided trades. It's not a coincidence that those "big cap space" teams are all small markets.

    Sign-and-trades need to go. They cheat the spirit of the system.
    But all those small-market teams need to AGREE on those trades first.

    Not giving in to demands is the first step to getting rid of them.

    "lose them over nothing!!" perhaps, but feeling better and making your fans feel better as well as having capspace don't hurt that much.

    On top of that, you are able to put a deal on the table for said player next year, that will put the decision in HIS court, not yours, to lose all that money.

    The system is fine, it was fine, the owners got what they wanted; more money.
    Forget revenue sharing, it will be at best 5%

    As long as owner are fighting the battles in the FO's as they have done all their lives in business, ruthless, FO's will find ways of collecting toptalent in certain places.
    You made a difference bigger in signing for your own team and signing with a new team and next you purposely help circumvent it, so the solution is to make it impossible??
    BS, if i player wants to leave so bad he is willing to take the loss, he has the right, it is the owners dealing a year early that are screwing it up.

    Of course there's also FO's like ours, but the owner handpicks those as well so he can sit on his own blisters there too.
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  40. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Howard and Paul will end up Lakers- Nothing in NBA changes

    Pacers will get more like 15-20 millin in revenue sharing. And if u read what Cuban wrote yesterday, the new system I why they could nt re-sign Chandler

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