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Thread: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

  1. #51
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    What's the point any more really.

    When 8.8 is a "strength" and 8.6 is "not NBA caliber" then you know you aren't dealing with rational, logical discussion.

    I've given up wondering why.


    But if Josh puts up 10/6/2 for another team for 4m or less I'm going to look long and hard at my ticket renewal form. How he played and the output you got for the price on him is one of the reasons I enjoyed games even when JOB was coaching (one of the only reasons). Last year was a 7.4/5.3/2.1 on 55% season at age 23. TWENTY-THREE.

    If he's getting 6+ then I get why you have to walk away. If you are trading him for West because you want to upgrade Roy's post offense then I get it, but I'll wonder why Josh/West are mutually exclusive since they wouldn't fill the same role anyway.


    Maybe people don't fully realize but the Pacers are in real danger of UNDERSPENDING per the new CBA. They don't need to SnT players, especially a player that teams can sign for the MLE outright. At market price the Pacers not only can afford Josh but MUST pay someone 4-5m to play on the front line to fill out the main 12 main roster.

    The 10-14m player comes independent of that.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by croz24 View Post
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    Love the posters who never provide analysis as to why they disagree with a post... Other than scoring, what area of Hansbrough's game is superior to McRoberts?
    Shooting, scoring, physical play, intensity, one-on-one defense, lateral quickness, getting to the free thrw line.

    Josh is a better shotbocker, passer and ballhandler

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  5. #53
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Maybe people don't fully realize but the Pacers are in real danger of UNDERSPENDING per the new CBA. They don't need to SnT players, especially a player that teams can sign for the MLE outright. At market price the Pacers not only can afford Josh but MUST pay someone 4-5m to play on the front line to fill out the main 12 main roster.

    The 10-14m player comes independent of that.
    I agree with you on this. Its almost like Simon has told Bird to sit back on the money so they can actually turn a profit this season. The Pacers have a major depth problem at Power Forward, and in fact they now lack athleticism up front in general. Pendergraph kid doesn't count either because he is the 15th man on this team right now, if he is in the game then the Pacers have some real problems with their front line.

    In my opinion Josh is a causality of the previous coaching staff. He spent 85% of this time under one of the worst coaches in the league. To the point that he actually tried to improve areas that he had no business in improving in just to try and get Playing time. Instead of practicing his rebounding and trying to develop some post moves and improving his post defense, Josh took hundreds of 3's per day. So when it came time in the post JOB era to actually play his position of PF he didn't do a great job at it. As a result the Pacers came in this season thinking that they were going to sign a prominent starting 4, and making Hansbrough the primary back up.

    Josh should have been tendered an offer at the begging of FA with the expressed knowledge that they see him as 3rd in the depth chart in their plans going forward to acquire more talent at the 4. The fact that we are probably letting a solid player walk away for nothing when he only made alittle over a million dollars last year shows a huge flaw with our FO.

    But anyone here who though Jmac was going to a prominent feature of this team going forward is just clueless. Again like I said in my previous post in this thread. Regardless of the coaching situation. Josh had 3 years here to develop his game, and in those 3 years he can't hit a consistent jump shot, is not a strong defender, no inside post game to speak of, and only an average rebounder. So after 3 years I think the FO knows what they have in him, and are foolishly moving forward with out him.

    But maybe thats best for Jmac though.
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Nobody has ever said the kid is some kind of all star in the making, but this a fairly unfair assessment in my view. There have been plenty of times when josh has made a very positive impact on the floor despite not being a great scorer or a "dale Davis" on the defensive end.

    Most of the reason he has become such a lighting rod is the constant struggle between people who appreciate his "role player" contributions and those who constantly try to dismiss him as worthless. Despite ample evidence to the contrary.
    This is exactly it. The illogical response to both Josh and Tyler hits right on my freakout button. Why role player A is worthless and overrated as a role player and role player B is a future star is beyond me. Why JOB thought his first half vs the Lakers was irrelevant was the same type of view.

    Why don't the numbers/"actual counted things that happened during games" convince people, I have no idea. It's beyond bizarre because it's so irrational.


    It would be like me trying to still argue that Tyler won't be able to draw fouls in the NBA. He came in and did it, what's left to debate?

    Josh can dunk, block, pass and rebound at an NBA level, he's able to put up 15-20 mpg type of player numbers because we just saw him do it. When he's offered money that suggests he'll go to another level, then we can have a new debate about whether he can achieve that or not.

    But that's never been on the table and still isn't as far as I can tell.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 12-10-2011 at 11:53 PM.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    I like Pendergraph but he's in the same boat at Tyler, a bit undersized. JP is a guy I'd get if you didn't have Josh or Tyler and wanted to fill that type of role. Swapping Josh for Jeff would be an odd move at this point. The appeal of JP was value vs draft spot not unlike AJ Price.

    We stopped needing those kinds of moves when we cleared space. And the team can't pocket money due to the minimum spending rule.

    Ironically the Pacers just got out of a decade of bad deals and the new CBA and their cap space might force them into handing out a couple of bad deals just to reach the minimum.



    With the Lakers locked up in this stupid Paul issue they might miss their chance, or worse yet if you are Josh and trying to make that call you'd probably want to wait for a shot to go to LA but would be watching the very limited practice time slip by as you do.

    This FA period right on top of camp is terrible, it's going to make a mess of the first month or so. Luckily all those off days in the schedule will give them practice time during the season.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Well, with Odom no longer with the Lakers... welcome to McLa La Land?

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Well, with Odom no longer with the Lakers... welcome to McLa La Land?
    He'd be a good fit, I would be happy for him.

    Personally, still being hopeful for the Rondo deal, I hope he holds off on any decisions. If we end up trading Tyler we may need him!

    In that case a Mcbob/Landry PF rotation might be the best you could do, but I'd be ok with it if Rondo came to Indy.
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I agree with you on this. Its almost like Simon has told Bird to sit back on the money so they can actually turn a profit this season. The Pacers have a major depth problem at Power Forward, and in fact they now lack athleticism up front in general. Pendergraph kid doesn't count either because he is the 15th man on this team right now, if he is in the game then the Pacers have some real problems with their front line.

    In my opinion Josh is a causality of the previous coaching staff. He spent 85% of this time under one of the worst coaches in the league. To the point that he actually tried to improve areas that he had no business in improving in just to try and get Playing time. Instead of practicing his rebounding and trying to develop some post moves and improving his post defense, Josh took hundreds of 3's per day. So when it came time in the post JOB era to actually play his position of PF he didn't do a great job at it. As a result the Pacers came in this season thinking that they were going to sign a prominent starting 4, and making Hansbrough the primary back up.

    Josh should have been tendered an offer at the begging of FA with the expressed knowledge that they see him as 3rd in the depth chart in their plans going forward to acquire more talent at the 4. The fact that we are probably letting a solid player walk away for nothing when he only made alittle over a million dollars last year shows a huge flaw with our FO.

    But anyone here who though Jmac was going to a prominent feature of this team going forward is just clueless. Again like I said in my previous post in this thread. Regardless of the coaching situation. Josh had 3 years here to develop his game, and in those 3 years he can't hit a consistent jump shot, is not a strong defender, no inside post game to speak of, and only an average rebounder. So after 3 years I think the FO knows what they have in him, and are foolishly moving forward with out him.

    But maybe thats best for Jmac though.
    I agree with Josh being hampered by JOB and instead of improving what he should have been working on, he was chucking up 3's trying to improve that area of his game. Now I am not against trying to improve a guys range but that IMO was not best for Josh or this team. Unfortunately Josh had to play under one of the worst coaches in the history of the NBA and I believe it hurt his development. I liked the rotation of Josh & Tyler and feel signing Pendegraph over Josh is not the best decision. Having Josh on the team was a plus especially if we aren't getting a significant upgrade in Nene. I know I might be in the minority here and I am a little bias as I like seeing Indiana grown boys on the team.
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Well, with Odom no longer with the Lakers... welcome to McLa La Land?
    Maybe we will get to see a McRoberts - Paul George dunk contest on All-star weekend.
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Well, with Odom no longer with the Lakers... welcome to McLa La Land?
    He reminds me of a lesser Lamar Odom.

    I don't think his role would be AS high, but they'd definitely use him.
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Shooting, scoring, physical play, intensity, one-on-one defense, lateral quickness, getting to the free thrw line.

    Josh is a better shotbocker, passer and ballhandler
    While most of those attributes are purely subjective, shooting is an objective fact.

    Is Tyler a markedly better shooter simply because he takes a lot more shots? I suppose that could be right.

    http://www.82games.com/1011/10IND11.HTM

    70% of Tyler's attempts last year were jumpshots. For someone whose routinely pumped as a physical and intense "beast"' this seems abnormally high.

    His effective field goal percentage on his jumpers was .408.

    The 30% of his shots which were inside (Close, dunks, and tips) came in at a .598 percentage.

    http://www.82games.com/1011/10IND12.HTM

    Only 52% of Josh's attempts were jumpers on which he had a percentage of .510.

    Inside shots accounted for 48% of Josh's attempts at a rate of .647.

    So yes, he shot a lot fewer jumpers but his percentage was a lot higher.

    The only place Tyler shot a better percentage than Josh was from the free throw line. Tyler was 77.9%. Josh was 73.9%.

    Is Tyler a better shooter or just a more willing shooter?

    Personally, Tyler is a better scorer than Josh. No question. That is Tyler's game whereas it is not Josh's. But all season long the team scored at a better clip with Josh on the floor. Is that an aberration? Maybe. But the facts don't show it yet.

    The problem with the whole thing is that Josh and Tyler's games compliment each other perfectly when used correctly. If Josh starts and is the 4th or 5th option among the starters, you've got a really good lineup. If Tyler backs him up and is the lead option among the reserves, you've got a really good bench.
    Last edited by BRushWithDeath; 12-11-2011 at 12:07 PM.
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  16. #62
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    While most of those attributes are purely subjective, shooting is an objective fact.

    Is Tyler a markedly better shooter simply because he takes a lot more shots? I suppose that could be right.

    http://www.82games.com/1011/10IND11.HTM

    70% of Tyler's attempts last year were jumpshots. For someone whose routinely pumped as a physical and intense "beast"' this seems abnormally high.

    His effective field goal percentage on this jumpers was .408.

    The 30% of his shots which were inside (Close, dunks, and tips) came in at a .598 percentage.

    http://www.82games.com/1011/10IND11.HTM

    Only 52% of Josh's attempts were jumpers on which he had a percentage of .510.

    Inside shots accounted for 48% of Josh's attempts at a rate of .647.

    So yes, he shot a lot fewer jumpers but his percentage was a lot higher.

    The only place Tyler shot a better percentage than Josh was from the free throw line. Tyler was 77.9%. Josh was 73.9%.

    Is Tyler a better shooter or just a more willing shooter?

    Personally, Tyler is a better scorer than Josh. No question. That is Tyler's game whereas it is not Josh's. But all season long the team scored at a better clip with Josh on the floor. Is that an aberration? Maybe. But the facts don't show it yet.

    The problem with the whole thing is that Josh and Tyler's games compliment each other perfectly when used correctly. If Josh starts and is the 4th or 5th option among the starters, you've got a really good lineup. If Tyler backs him up and is the lead option among the reserves, you've got a really good bench.
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  18. #63

    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    GET JOSH OUUTAAA HERE!!! HE COST THE PACERS A PERFECT QUARTER AGAINST THE NUGGETS!

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Tyler and Josh shouldn't even be considered comparable, because they aren't even playing the same game.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerPenguins View Post
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    GET JOSH OUUTAAA HERE!!! HE COST THE PACERS A PERFECT QUARTER AGAINST THE NUGGETS!
    But he got the former head coach's tyrannical reign of terror ended half a season early!
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    While most of those attributes are purely subjective, shooting is an objective fact.
    While it may not have been the biggest area of need for Josh to improve upon, he did become a more than serviceable outside shooter. Tyler may look to add that to his game at some point, but Josh already has.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    While it may not have been the biggest area of need for Josh to improve upon, he did become a more than serviceable outside shooter. Tyler may look to add that to his game at some point, but Josh already has.
    He should have worked on his mid range shot. That is something Tyler clearly has over him, and would have been worth a lot more than being able to make a few threes. I know why he worked on his three point shot though..

    I think it was pretty obvious last season that Josh fit more with the starters, and Tyler fit more with the bench. Not because one is better than the other. But because the starters needed a facilitator and the bench needed someone who could score in a structured offense.

    I hope he choses the Lakers. He'd be a good backup post for them. Plus, he's the type of guy that I'd like to see have a chance for a ring. (And would um..probably play pretty well next to Dwight. :P )
    Last edited by Sookie; 12-11-2011 at 02:29 PM.

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  26. #68
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    I agree, but I think it comes down to who plays more aggressively, especially on offense. That's also why I think Mayo is more likely to succeed in Indiana than Hill.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Looking like Memphis?

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    How u?

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Mackey, anything you can say?

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    Mackey, anything you can say?
    Memphis is a better offer than the Lakers, and Tennessee doesn't have state income tax (California is the highest), but the Lakers situation is much better.

    Tough call.

    There are other teams still in play.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Looking like Memphis?
    Based on what?

  34. #74
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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Memphis is a better offer than the Lakers, and Tennessee doesn't have state income tax (California is the highest), but the Lakers situation is much better.

    Tough call.

    There are other teams still in play.
    This certainly sounds too complicated to be resolved today, no? Keep us posted if you can....definitely appreciated.

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    Default Re: McBob deciding between Memphis and the Lakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    This certainly sounds too complicated to be resolved today, no? Keep us posted if you can....definitely appreciated.
    There's no reason to sign a deal just to sign a deal and end up leaving money on the table.

    No rush. He can let other things shake out, and then make a fully educated decision.

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