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Thread: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
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    Need more rebounding. Roy/Hans/Josh won't get it done. Also, outside Roy's shotblocking, not too hot on interior D. Add foster and one acquisition that boosts inside depth and offer some rebounding and positional D. Addition does not have to start per se.
    Do keep in mind a week from today:

    Both David West and Carl Landry are worse rebounders than either Josh or Tyler. Landry, significantly so.
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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    One other note about our big man needs, if we sign a smaller PF like West or Landry we will have to go out and spend money on a legit Back up C. So do you want to pay 4 million a year over 3 years for guys like Prizbilla or Fesenko?

    Pay Nene, resign Foster, and then next year foster retires and we can bring over Stanko.
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  4. #53

    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I know that many may disagree....but I think that Hansbrough and Landry have a ceiling of "Decent Starter on a Mediocre team playing 30 mpg" or "very solid Backup PF on a Playoff team playing 25 mpg". I'd rather have Hansbrough come in and wreck havoc against the 2nd unit then play against higher quality PFs.
    Either way it doesn't address the main need unless Hans develops into a better rebounder and consistent scorer.

    I personally just think its the wrong approach at the pf postion. Having 2 guys with no clear cut starter won't give us a big advantage and it won't even be a better advantage than McBob last year where we could play the matchup against other teams.

    I like Hans like an offensive version of Taj Gibson. Everyone saw how Taj came in and impacted the playoff games with his energy. I like Hans in the same way but on offense. Gibson or Tyler don't need a ton of minutes to impact a game IMO.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I personally just think its the wrong approach at the pf postion. Having 2 guys with no clear cut starter won't give us a big advantage and it won't even be a better advantage than McBob last year where we could play the matchup against other teams.
    If the Pacers do bring in Landry, I don't believe there is any question in their minds who will be starting. Landry will be the clear cut starter.

    In your mind, he may not be clearly better. I believe that in the minds of Pacer management, he is clearly better.

  6. #55

    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by beast23 View Post
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    If the Pacers do bring in Landry, I don't believe there is any question in their minds who will be starting. Landry will be the clear cut starter.

    In your mind, he may not be clearly better. I believe that in the minds of Pacer management, he is clearly better.
    IF Tyler is getting half the minutes which some have suggested to sign Landry then it won't matter really who is starting.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Do keep in mind a week from today:

    Both David West and Carl Landry are worse rebounders than either Josh or Tyler. Landry, significantly so.
    What are your measures, and do they include team rb% when they are on/off the floor?

  8. #57

    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Landry is a terrible rebounder. He'd be our worst rebounding PF since Solomon Jones.

  9. #58
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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    I guess I'm already at a point in this process that I hope they

    1.) try to land a big fish

    if not

    2.) Find value players that present an upgrade.

    if not

    3.) Play with the team you have (well you need a 4th big in the rotation.

    Pacers are in a good spot. They have all 5 starters from a playoff team (glass half full, I know). Added George Hill. Still have rotation guys from the Chicago series in AJ Price, D Jones, BRush, and likely Foster.

    So you've lost who Mike Dunleavy, who was barely contributor in that series, and Jmac, who is... replaceable (ducking).

    My point is don't do anything stupid, you have a group that could take the court tonight and should be better than April of last year. (again, you don't have enough front court players, but signing Foster and a 4th big, wouldn't be hard)

    Some of these other teams with cap space can't even field a team, Pacers have almost the entire rotation intact. Pretty big deal.

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  11. #59
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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Nice post Speed.

    I guess I wouldn't mind Landry if we get him on a nice contract. But I'm wondering why we don't go after other similarly priced players (Hayes or Humphries, perhaps) who could bring different things to our frontcourt.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Nice post Speed.

    I guess I wouldn't mind Landry if we get him on a nice contract. But I'm wondering why we don't go after other similarly priced players (Hayes or Humphries, perhaps) who could bring different things to our frontcourt.
    I am really, really curious to see what Hayes and Humphries get in Free Agency. I thought at one point Humphries would get overpaid by NJ, but I'm not sure that's the case now. I have no idea what Hayes value is in the open market. I know he was a huge factor and pain one of the Pacers/Rockets games last year.

    As for Landry, I mean, what's his value. He's not stuck where ever he's been. I agree with getting someone who brings something different to the frontcourt group at the right price. I'm becoming less enthused with Landry by the day for some reason. I think its partly because I want to see what Hansbrough can do in the right system for a full season.

    Part of me wants to just sign Reggie Evans for a really short/reasonable amount and wait.

    Edit: the biggest pull for me, across the board, to not do anything is I feel like almost the entire roster just lacks consistency that will come with experience. Almost all of them have shown more than flashes of being very good. Its just the consistency they need. I feel like I don't know how good these guys are going to be, so therefore, I'm not sure what the 'team' needs.
    Last edited by Speed; 12-02-2011 at 12:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    During his time with the Hornets (Landry), their offensive rebounding went up by 1.8% when he was on the floor. However, the defensive rebounding went down by 3.2% when he was on the floor.

    David West was basically the opposite. Their offensive rebounding went down by 1.8% when he was on the court, yet their defensive rebounding went up by 2.9%.

    So West's contributions were a net positive, while Landry's were a net negative. Unfortunately West's positives were only on the D glass, but nonetheless.

    Nene is -5.5.% for team offensive rebounding, yet +3.6% for defensive rebounding, however that's overall a loss. In Denver's case at least, I wonder if part of that might be if they go small when he's not on the floor, which would probably mean more long rebounds off of missed shots by smaller/faster guys. But that's total speculation, and clearly none of these three are impressive rebounders.

    Josh was -1.2% for off rebounds and -2.9% for def rebounds, while Tyler was +5.1% for off rebounds and +0.6% for def rebounds, by the way.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Honestly I'm a little pleasantly surprised Tyler was positive on both ends of the floor.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    What are your measures, and do they include team rb% when they are on/off the floor?
    I did not not factor in on/off court rebounding percentages. Here is how the 4 stack up though in sheer rebounding and the percentage of available rebounds they get.

    Per 36 minutes:
    Offensive rebounds:
    1. Hansbrough 3.4
    2. Landry 3.0
    3. McRoberts 2.5
    4. West 2.3

    Defensive rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 6.2
    2. West 5.5
    3. Hansbrough 5.2
    4. Landry 3.3

    Total rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 8.6
    2. Hansbrough 8.6
    3. West 7.8
    4. Landry 6.2

    Offensive rebounding percentage:
    1. Hansbrough 10.6%
    2. Landry 9.3%
    3. West 7.6%
    4. McRoberts 7.6 %

    Defensive rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 18.8%
    2. West 15.9%
    3. Hansbrough 15.9%
    4. Landry 10.8%

    Total rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 13.3%
    2. Hansbrough 13.2%
    3. West 13.1%
    4. Landry 10.0%

    Since there seems to be such a large preoccupation with using the playoff series as some sort of indicator of overall quality, which is asinine, I'm going to show the numbers for the playoffs also. Just because I'm feeling snarky and it further shows why Landry would be a failure of a signing. Please understand this is done with tongue firmly in cheek.

    Playoffs per 36 rebounds:
    Offensive rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 3.6
    2. Hansbrough 2.9
    3. Landry 1.9

    Defensive rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 4.6
    2. Landry 3.2
    3. Hansbrough 3.1

    Total rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 8.2
    2. Hansbrough 5.9
    3. Landry 5.1

    Offensive rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 10.9%
    2. Hansbrough 8.5%
    3. Landry 6.9%

    Defensive rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 15.1%
    2. Landry 11.2%
    3. Hansbrough 10.2%

    Total rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 12.9%
    2. Hansbrough 9.3%
    3. Landry 9.1%
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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    This article is ridiculous. Bird will definitely go after a starting PF.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    During his time with the Hornets (Landry), their offensive rebounding went up by 1.8% when he was on the floor. However, the defensive rebounding went down by 3.2% when he was on the floor.

    David West was basically the opposite. Their offensive rebounding went down by 1.8% when he was on the court, yet their defensive rebounding went up by 2.9%.

    So West's contributions were a net positive, while Landry's were a net negative. Unfortunately West's positives were only on the D glass, but nonetheless.

    Nene is -5.5.% for team offensive rebounding, yet +3.6% for defensive rebounding, however that's overall a loss. In Denver's case at least, I wonder if part of that might be if they go small when he's not on the floor, which would probably mean more long rebounds off of missed shots by smaller/faster guys. But that's total speculation, and clearly none of these three are impressive rebounders.

    Josh was -1.2% for off rebounds and -2.9% for def rebounds, while Tyler was +5.1% for off rebounds and +0.6% for def rebounds, by the way.
    Curious to know what was the off reb % when Tyler and Jeff were one the floor? If you have it handy.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Nice post Speed.

    I guess I wouldn't mind Landry if we get him on a nice contract. But I'm wondering why we don't go after other similarly priced players (Hayes or Humphries, perhaps) who could bring different things to our frontcourt.
    I agree with Speed as well...but Landry IMHO doesn't fill the requirements of #2...he isn't a significant upgrade over Hansbrough. If he can be had for $4 mil ( as in being a cheaper FA option ) AND willing to come to Indy ( despite his many "suitors" ), sure.....why not? But my guess is that it won't happen.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I did not not factor in on/off court rebounding percentages.
    I've seen a variation of these numbers before and Jmac always comes across as a strong rebounder. I don't know why, but I always get the impression is merely average, at best, when I watch him.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Curious to know what was the off reb % when Tyler and Jeff were one the floor? If you have it handy.
    Not specifically, no.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Edit: the biggest pull for me, across the board, to not do anything is I feel like almost the entire roster just lacks consistency that will come with experience. Almost all of them have shown more than flashes of being very good. Its just the consistency they need. I feel like I don't know how good these guys are going to be, so therefore, I'm not sure what the 'team' needs.
    Interesting point. This is definitely how I feel about the SG position - I think the group of Paul G, George H, and yes Lance too could develop into something, hence why I'm so hesitant about adding someone like Crawford.

    With regards to the bigs though, I think no amount of consistency will change the fact that neither Hibbert nor Hans are great athletes or good rebounders. So those are the kind of bigs I'd like to add. I think Hib and Hans have a chance to be plus scorers, so I'm more hesitant about adding guys like West or Landry.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    So who is the best rebounding power forward in FA right now?

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So who is the best rebounding power forward in FA right now?
    Kris Humphries. By a huge margin.

    Among the consensus top 6 UFA PF's:

    Rebounding:
    1. Kris Humphries
    2. Nene
    3. Josh McRoberts
    4. David West
    5. Glen Davis
    6. Carl Landry

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...isgl01&y6=2011

    Landry is pretty much going to be the worst no matter who you compare him to. And with the exception of Big Baby, who is also a bad rebounder, Landry is last on this list by a wide margin.
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  29. #72

    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    Kris Humphries. By a huge margin.

    Among the consensus top 6 UFA PF's:

    Rebounding:
    1. Kris Humphries
    2. Nene
    3. Josh McRoberts
    4. David West
    5. Glen Davis
    6. Carl Landry

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...isgl01&y6=2011

    Landry is pretty much going to be the worst no matter who you compare him to. And with the exception of Big Baby, who is also a bad rebounder, Landry is last on this list by a wide margin.
    I would take Humphries over Landry if their contracts were the same. Maybe 6 million over 3-4 years.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I would take Humphries over Landry if their contracts were the same. Maybe 6 million over 3-4 years.
    I have no problem with that since Humphries:

    1 ) Complements both Hibbert AND Hansbrough
    2 ) He can play both the PF and C position
    3 ) IMHO...he could be had for $6-7 mil a year.
    4 ) He's essentially a younger version of Foster...a lunch pail guy that is very good at rebounding...blocking a shot or two and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective.

    I don't like his offense...but if you are okay with Foster or Chandler not doing too much on the offensive end....then I am okay with Humphries limited offense.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Nice post Speed.

    I guess I wouldn't mind Landry if we get him on a nice contract. But I'm wondering why we don't go after other similarly priced players (Hayes or Humphries, perhaps) who could bring different things to our frontcourt.
    I'd much rather grab Humphries than Landry if we are making a signing like that.

    In all honesty if all we are going to do is sign Landry, I'd much rather NOT do that and just keep Mcroberts on the cheap.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 12-02-2011 at 01:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers not looking at starting PF?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    I did not not factor in on/off court rebounding percentages. Here is how the 4 stack up though in sheer rebounding and the percentage of available rebounds they get.

    Per 36 minutes:
    Offensive rebounds:
    1. Hansbrough 3.4
    2. Landry 3.0
    3. McRoberts 2.5
    4. West 2.3

    Defensive rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 6.2
    2. West 5.5
    3. Hansbrough 5.2
    4. Landry 3.3

    Total rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 8.6
    2. Hansbrough 8.6
    3. West 7.8
    4. Landry 6.2

    Offensive rebounding percentage:
    1. Hansbrough 10.6%
    2. Landry 9.3%
    3. West 7.6%
    4. McRoberts 7.6 %

    Defensive rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 18.8%
    2. West 15.9%
    3. Hansbrough 15.9%
    4. Landry 10.8%

    Total rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 13.3%
    2. Hansbrough 13.2%
    3. West 13.1%
    4. Landry 10.0%

    Since there seems to be such a large preoccupation with using the playoff series as some sort of indicator of overall quality, which is asinine, I'm going to show the numbers for the playoffs also. Just because I'm feeling snarky and it further shows why Landry would be a failure of a signing. Please understand this is done with tongue firmly in cheek.

    Playoffs per 36 rebounds:
    Offensive rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 3.6
    2. Hansbrough 2.9
    3. Landry 1.9

    Defensive rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 4.6
    2. Landry 3.2
    3. Hansbrough 3.1

    Total rebounds:
    1. McRoberts 8.2
    2. Hansbrough 5.9
    3. Landry 5.1

    Offensive rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 10.9%
    2. Hansbrough 8.5%
    3. Landry 6.9%

    Defensive rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 15.1%
    2. Landry 11.2%
    3. Hansbrough 10.2%

    Total rebounding percentage:
    1. McRoberts 12.9%
    2. Hansbrough 9.3%
    3. Landry 9.1%
    Would the fact that West plays next to a 10 RPG guy like Okafur factor into his rebounding numbers being lower? Or does this stat take that into account? How do they determine "available rebounds"?
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