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Thread: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

  1. #51

    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    I just want to point this out and I agree with Vznla81 that there is little to be had next year via FA's outside of EJ. No superstars are coming IMo.

    The kicker is a trade and a few guys will be expiring deals (2012/13) that won't likely come back to their team hence a trade could work in our favor.

    A look at a few.... Paul Milsap, Josh Smith, Jameer Nelson (PO), Gerald Wallace (PO), Kevin Martin (Maybe), Elton Brand, Al Jefferson, Ellis (PO).

    These aren't world better but teams will be looking to resign some of them or let them go through a trade if they think they can't resign them.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 12-01-2011 at 12:31 PM.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    "if we keep our cap flexibility many teams would like to send players to our team"


    "we would like to keep our cap flexibility for the future"

    "if you look at other teams that expended their cap space in free agents that didn't work out to well for them"

    "we like GH he's got a lot of leadership qualities and wanted to come home to indiana"

  4. #53
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Great to hear, as much as I'd like to get all of these players that could help now, why not let this group grow and only make deals that are really good. No Rush, lets see what we have, a little bit.

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  6. #54
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    That sounds great and all Morway, but Nene would make you a top 3-4 team in the east THIS YEAR. You better spend that cash on an impact player.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  7. #55
    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    "if we keep our cap flexibility many teams would like to send players to our team"


    "we would like to keep our cap flexibility for the future"

    "if you look at other teams that expended their cap space in free agents that didn't work out to well for them"

    "we like GH he's got a lot of leadership qualities and wanted to come home to indiana"
    I'm glad that their concerned about the same thing happening to us as Detroit.

    None of these FA's are worth overspending on. Bide your time until a good trade comes along, and if one doesn't come along wait until an offseason with players worth splurging on.

    Who knows what the future holds. Maybe we could end up with EJ if he's an RFA and we max him out, maybe we could convince the clips to sign and trade if this is where EJ wants to go. Maybe we could convince D-Will if we have an awesome season this year that he's the last piece to making us contenders. Maybe Paul Breaks out and we are closer than we thought to being serious players.

    Sign D-West if you can get him for less than 10 per. Otherwise pick up a landry on the cheap, if for no other reason than being another trade chip while still maintaining our cap flexibility. We'll be potential big winners in every future "rondo" scenario. Eventually something good will come our way, and when the time is right we can make the jump from what will hopefully be level of perennial playoff team (this year) to second tier contender or more. I just want a shot, and I thin kwe have a real chance fo getting there if we are patient.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Sounds like we will be signing David West relatively cheap, if there's no real market for him. Also, it looks like that we're going to try to sign TWO near max deals next summer. I can live with that. One more year for our team to gel together, and we can add a difference maker player OUTSIDE OF EJ next summer.

    Unless a trade just falls in our lap without us giving up anything substantial....

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  11. #57
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    What the window for the cap space? I mean, when will extending the young guys start to eat into that, significantly? These guys won't be on rookie deals forever.

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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Yeah, i'm not a big fan of the defeatest attitude that we'll never ever be able to get a star to play here. You never know until you try, and we're certainly capable of trading for someone near that level.

    David west on the cheap would actually fit amazingly well in my opinion, and will just make this team all the more attractive for a big time player.

    Best case scenario- David West hasn't missed a beat, voila we have that second "Danny level" (slightly lower, but in the ballpark 1 time all-star etc..), if paul can get at least that good in the near future we're sitting pretty.

    Plus I don't want to max out nene, and then have hibbert break out in a huge way and eventually have problems extending our own players.

    Nene is nice. But not for the max. near the deadline there will be tons of deals like the Rondo one discussed. Every team that isn't working out will be lining up for our salary cap relief, and will have to pay pretty for the priveledge.

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    What the window for the cap space? I mean, when will extending the young guys start to eat into that, significantly? These guys won't be on rookie deals forever.
    We will try to extend Hibbert pretty soon actually in all likelyhood. I'm not sure if we want to let him be an RFA. Give him a fair but not overpriced offer now, when the good feelings are rolling, he loves frank, has area 55 etc..

    We let him get RFA we'll end up matching a huge offer or have to let him go, and it would break my heart.

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    I would start by running McRoberts in the pick and roll constantly. I would give him free reign to take one dribble and shoot or one dribble on his drive. I wouldn't want him making several dribbles while guarded because that isn't a strength. I would let him run the fast break though. His high handles are easily picked, but that isn't a problem in the open court. I would run WAY more big to big picks down low with McRoberts, Foster, Hibbert, and Hansborough. These picks often times open up guys for easy buckets, which we NEED from the post.

    Rush I would have moving off of picks and playing the high wing. Rush I NEED to be setting up Hibbert in the low block and moving off of that more consistently. Rush does a terrific job working with the big to get one or both open. That needs to happen more frequently, especially with Brandon's defense, which I am almost always a proponent of more defensive pressure.

    Granger, needs to be more of a weakside threat who can move into the high post and crash the glass more (same with Paul). Granger playing the weakside allows him to run PnR off the weak side which will help him get open or leaves open space for him to get more dribble drive-pull up jumpers with a lesser big closing. I would actually make the right side of the court the weakside and leave Granger (and PG) there, and Post Hibbert to the left side as the strong side. It gives Hibbert more opportunity to open up his shooting hand in his low post moves. Or pass around double teams with his strong hand.

    I would also post the hell out of Hansborough when he is in the game, and make him pass out of it (may be some learning curves but will be good long-term). Players will want to over-collapse on him just to hit him back. Hansborough needs to stay as close to the glass as possible, because that is where his toughness is needed. He (and McRoberts/Foster) would be playing more of a "high post-in" with his movements. And I certainly would ask for more dribble penetration from our PGs to facilitate that movement.

    I think there was too much priority on weakside passing for a team void of primary scorers. There needed to be more of a focus on getting a good look early in the shot clock and then vary the offense if that doesn't present itself. I think Vogel had a lot of the right ideas when he took over. Hibbert was in the post more and rotations were much better. We went away from having so many soft cuts to the interior by guards.

    I would give Stephenson more burn with guys like Rush, PG, McRoberts and Foster, who struggle to score on the second team. Let them run and run alot. We might turn the ball over some, but I guarantee it will help our depth be successful.

    Hill is the one that I am most excited about on this roster. I think he has the breadth of talent to run point for us and get us into the proper sets offensively. He needs to look to score off the dribble a bit more here than he did in SA, but I think he knows this and will be capable of it. He really needs to get into a groove with how Granger likes to move without the ball.... er... well Granger will have to start moving without the ball more. But I think if they can develop a bit of a two man game where they can work one side of the defense they will keep teams off balance. I would love to see Granger, George, and Hill also work in the post some to keep matchups versatile.

    I would run a lot more double screens from our bigs in the paint to make our perimeter to perimeter cuts. I think this will open our bigs and guards to get position that we typically struggle to obtain through footwork and size. This is where our scoring and passing can finally become effective in the way that would utilize our talent. We don't have the guys who can get to the spot on the floor at will that they can score from or make the scoring pass. I am not a coach, so I hope this makes sense.
    I see some of your points but there are two things I would like to say, It does not seem like most teams run plays for their 6th and 7th option off the bench, if so they are very limited. Also Rush I think he had decent opportunities but too often he has deferred when he should have taken advantage. I do not know about giving Josh the go ahead though.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    "we have to ad bigs to the basketball team"

    "if we can, we would like to ad some maturity to this basketball team"

    "if we find the right guy at the right price we are going to ad the guy"
    Sounds like David West. If we get him for under 10 million it will be a great deal. He will do a lot for our team.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Ok here is a list of next year free agents, other than Howard,CP3,Dwill and EJ I don't see anybody else that could put us over the top:

    http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-nba-free-agents/
    I just realized how inexpensive Roy is.

    But yeah considering that we will need a superstar to put us over the top, I think those are about the only guys on the list that are superstars, I do not know if Eric would put us over the top, but he would be a really nice addition though.
    Why so SERIOUS

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    thx4tehmRys Danny! daschysta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    We don't neccesarily HAVE to have a superstar, one wuold be nice though

  22. #64
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Question. Why do people think David West could possibly be signed for under $10M per? It's certainly possible someone will get him for under the max, but 7 figures? No way.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Question. Why do people think David West could possibly be signed for under $10M per? It's certainly possible someone will get him for under the max, but 7 figures? No way.
    Rumour has it that the market isn't really there for him among cap teams. Especially if the hornets don't think they can convince paul to come back.

    It may end up us bidding against ourselves, and if we're smart we can get him for a great bargain.
    Last edited by daschysta; 12-01-2011 at 02:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by daschysta View Post
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    We don't neccesarily HAVE to have a superstar, one wuold be nice though
    To put us "over the top" I think we do, but to be competitive no.
    Why so SERIOUS

  26. #67
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    "we like GH he's got a lot of leadership qualities and wanted to come home to indiana"

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    "Ok, let's get Wells' ******** out of the way first."

    "Larry, this is live."

    "So?"

    God, Larry Bird is made of win.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 12-01-2011 at 03:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Really? View Post
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    To put us "over the top" I think we do, but to be competitive no.
    The Pistons didn't have a Superstar when they beat a loaded Lakers team for a Championship... If we get the right pieces to fit the smash mouth, team oriented play Vogel wants, then why can't we do the same as the Pistons? - Trick is getting those right pieces that fit.
    "George's athleticism is bananas!" - Marc J. Spears

  30. #70
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    The '04 Pistons were the exception to the rule.

    And even then they still had 4 All-Stars and a near All-Star Tayshaun Prince.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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  32. #71
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    As much as i would prefer Nene, id rather West on a good deal that Nene being overpaid.

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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    Yes, & kinda.
    Patience is a key phrase for several reasons. In no order:
    -The CBA is not official, & all the rules are not locked into place (amnesty, ect).
    -We are young & have a new coaching staff & have not had a normal off season to monitor players.
    -Now that we have cap space we are not going to run out & spend it all right away, fit is huge!
    -Waiting to see if some teams want to shed salery & we can use our space to absorb a player we like.

    And related, but more specific to the Next years FA's:
    -We basically have the room for 2 max-type players, but no reason to use if the right player is not there.
    -Next years FA class is much better then t/y's.
    -Gives more time for teams to review their rosters, look to get under the cap.
    This is why I want Bird in charge for a long time to come. He won't pull the trigger too quickly on a bad trade or pick up. We need someone with Bird's patience in charge. Bid on Nene but don't overpay, I hope we wouldn't go over a starting salary of 13 mil. and draw the line there.
    Wait to see who's available via amnesty. We may be able to bring in 2 -3 key players for less then the price of 1 free agent. If we could fill our needs for a big man and a sg this year via amnesty players we could bring in a max contract pg next year and still have money left over to sign our own free agents when the time comes.

  34. #73
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    If you sign West for close to $10 million a year he will need to play 32-34 minutes a night as the starter. Since West and Hansbourgh both only play PF that leaves only 15 minutes a night for Hansbourgh or you are paying a guy close to $10 million a year to play 25 minutes a night.

    Neither of those scenarios makes sense to me.

  35. #74
    "I don't mess with West" ECKrueger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    "Ok, let's get Wells' ******** out of the way first."

    "Larry, this is live."

    "So?"

    God, Larry Bird is made of win.
    Awesome. I knew he had the BS line, but I didn't know about the following

  36. #75
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    Default Re: Bird presser 11 am tomorrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Question. Why do people think David West could possibly be signed for under $10M per? It's certainly possible someone will get him for under the max, but 7 figures? No way.
    Who do you think is there to give West more than $10 mil?

    Washington? Nope. Young, don't really need him, probably not amnestying Rashard yet.

    Golden State? Nope, don't need him.

    Nets? Nope, bigger fish to fry.

    Kings? Nope, West wants to play for a team with a chance to win, plus they have Hickson.

    Teams left that would consider West: New Orleans and Indiana.

    New Orleans would love to get West back -- if they knew Chris Paul was staying. David West would probably like to go back to New Orleans -- if he knew Chris Paul was staying. But the reality is, he's probably not, which means New Orleans doesn't need a 31 year old PF during their rebuilding process and David West won't want to sink with the ship after CP3 leaves.

    So that leaves the Pacers, who could use West, but also have Tyler Hansbrough, further decreasing West's leverage.

    The market's just not there for West, and the knee concerns aren't helping him. Of the interested teams, the Pacers have to be looking pretty good to him right now. I would low-ball the hell out of him and hope he accepts.

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