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Thread: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

  1. #526
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    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    Scotch tape him to Billy Keller and let him learn how to shoot. He can turn himself into a respectable shooter if he works at it.

  2. #527
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    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    We are still at a point where we shouldn't turn down talent of that magnitude.

  3. #528

    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...build-team-nba

    How good is Rajon Rondo?


    It's a timely question. With New Orleans Hornets point guard Chris Paul on the trading block, the Boston Celtics have reportedly floated their own All-Star point guard in talks with the league-owned franchise. Putting aside the piercing irony of a small-market team potentially trading a perennial MVP candidate to a big-market team right after the lockout, the whispers of a Rondo-for-Paul swap already have the basketball world buzzing even before the ink dries on the CBA.


    Looking at this trade proposal, you can't help revisiting that initial question:
    Really, just how good is Rajon Rondo?


    Yes, it's a timely question, but it's also a fascinating one that should yield some far-ranging opinions. Rondo represents one of the NBA's greatest riddles because he's an integral part of an incredibly successful team, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly how responsible he is for his team's success. Looking at Rondo's particular situation in Boston, we can learn a few things about how to distribute individual credit for team success.



    Surely, Rondo is an above-average point guard. We can start there. You don't just average 11.2 assists per game by being a chump. And since assists have become the perceived currency of point guard value, Rondo appears to have earned his spot as one of the game's great floor generals.


    Assists are tricky, though. As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. When it comes to Rondo, he starts the assist with a pass, and usually this is what happens: A Hall of Famer finishes it with a bucket. As long as the league refuses to track potential assists -- as in, passes that generate a good look, not necessarily a good result -- we will always have an imperfect measure of passing ability. After all, the passer relinquishes his control once the ball leaves his hands. The rest is up to the receiver.


    Because of the chicken-or-the-egg nature of assists, we have to be careful about guys like Rondo. Since his sophomore season in the league, he has been surrounded by Hall of Famers who are historically talented shot-makers. A trio of Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett is what point guard dreams are made of. But this has been Rondo's reality for most of his career in the NBA.


    So let's dig deeper into those gaudy assist totals and see whether we can separate what is Rondo and what isn't. One way to zoom in on his true talent is to remove a Hall of Famer from the equation. What happens to Rondo's assist rates when one of Boston's Big Three leaves the floor?


    Consider this: When Ray Allen was on the court, Rondo tallied 11.4 assists per 36 minutes. When Ray Allen left the court?


    8.0 assists per 36 minutes -- the equivalent of Devin Harris' rate last season.


    That's an enormous effect. Put another way, 30 percent of Rondo's assists vanished when Allen stepped off the court. And that wasn't an isolated bruise, either; he Boston offense took a considerable hit as well. The Celtics' offensive efficiency dropped from a blistering 108.6 points per 100 possessions to a meager 102.7 points when Rondo saw Allen leave the court.


    And Pierce? We saw a similar drop-off in Rondo's assists when the small forward hit the bench and an even more dramatic slide in the overall team context. When Pierce hit the pine, Rondo's assist rate fell from 11.2 to 9.2 and the offense suffered greatly, dropping from 110.2 points per 100 possessions to a subterranean 95.0 points per 100 possessions. Yes, that's a 15.2-point drop-off.


    For teams interested in Rondo, these on-court relationships should weigh heavily in the scouting report. In Allen, Rondo has one of the best spot-up shooters of all time and, perhaps more importantly, a magician off the ball. Pierce has carved out one of the most crafty offensive arsenals in the game. Without them by his side, the Boston offense was completely neutered.


    That shouldn't happen with a top-flight point guard. What makes Rondo such a unique player is that he can't create offense for himself, which severely compromises his value on the court. Elite point guards like Paul, Derrick Rose, Steve Nash and Deron Williams all share the ability to take over games with their own scoring without depending on teammates. When Boston's Big Three weren't on the floor, you'd expect a point guard with Rondo's prestige to raise his game. In those situations, Rondo only managed to score a paltry 11.8 points per 36 minutes. His assists dropped to 7.1 assists per 36 minutes.


    At this point, you might be growling, "Of course, Rondo and his team suffers when Hall of Famers leave the court!" This much is obvious, but what isn't obvious is how much of Boston's success we should attribute directly to Rondo.


    Think about this for a second: Could Rondo take a team starting Marco Belinelli, Trevor Ariza, Carl Landry and Emeka Okafor to six games against the Lakers in the playoffs? Could he lead the Phoenix Suns to almost a winning record like Steve Nash did?


    [+] Enlarge Layne Murdoch/NBAE/Getty ImagesRondo's lack of scoring ability keeps him a notch below the level of young star guards like Russell Westbrook.




    These are essential questions when it comes to players like Rondo, who have so much of their offensive value lumped into one category. While it's true that Rondo isn't just an assist compiler -- he's a pesky defender and an above-average rebounder -- potential buyers should pay attention to what happens when he's not surrounded by Hall of Famers. The more you look at the numbers, Rondo appears to be the sweetener, not the coffee.


    For stacked lineups like the one in Boston, Rondo can be the difference-maker. But for small-market teams looking to rebuild, it's hard to mention Rondo in the same breath as other talented youngsters like Russell Westbrook and Rose. Without an outside scoring game, a player like Rondo has a ceiling that can only go so far. Sharing the court with other superstars further clouds the picture, but as we've seen with Rondo, he owes a significant chunk of his value to his teammates.


    Which players show similar warning signs? Tony Parker comes to mind. The similarities are eerie. Like Rondo, the only team Parker has ever known is one that annually competes for championships. Like Rondo, he fell late in the draft primarily over concerns about his shot. Like Rondo, he played with one of the best power forwards of all time, not to mention an All-Star wing in Manu Ginobili. If a team wants to rebuild with point guards like Rondo and Parker, they have to separate what's nature and what's nurture.


    Rondo represents a small group of fine players who shine brightest next to superstars. No one would call Rondo a role player because of the pejorative connotation, but non-scorers like Tyson Chandler -- a castoff in Charlotte who arguably may have been the second-best player on a title team -- and Rondo need scorers next to them in order to leverage their talents. The same goes for low-usage high-energy guys like Joakim Noah and Gerald Wallace.


    Celtics general manager Danny Ainge has denied that he's looking to trade Rondo, and that may just be a public relations ploy. However, because of Rondo's unique talents, there's some evidence that Rondo means more to the Celtics than any other team. That may be a good thing for his own valuations. But for potential rebuilding suitors outside of Boston, the warning is clear: Buyer beware.

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  5. #529
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    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Indy View Post
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    -Rondo is better when All-Stars are on the court with him - Shocking!
    -Rondo (a PG) is more efficient when he is on the court with All-Star caliber scorers - Shocking!
    -Rondo is not a scoring PG, but rather a defensive distributer - Shocking!

    In other news:
    -Grass is Green
    -Sky is Blue
    -B.Rush likes pot & is a dick on twitter

    No news here...
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

  6. #530

    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    -Rondo is better when All-Stars are on the court with him - Shocking!
    -Rondo (a PG) is more efficient when he is on the court with All-Star caliber scorers - Shocking!
    -Rondo is not a scoring PG, but rather a defensive distributer - Shocking!

    In other news:
    -Grass is Green
    -Sky is Blue
    -B.Rush likes pot & is a dick on twitter

    No news here...
    I thought this leans toward the argument against acquiring Rondo by providing some empirical evidence. At the very least, not overbid with bids like DC, Granger/George, Hibbert and/or 1st.

  7. #531
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    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Indy View Post
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    I thought this leans toward the argument against acquiring Rondo by providing some empirical evidence. At the very least, not overbid with bids like DC, Granger/George, Hibbert and/or 1st.
    Don't take that wrong, I appreciated the post & it was worth the read, but my point is take Amare/Marion/JRich off the court vs. on the court for Nash - Boozer/AK47 away from DWill, DWest/Chandler away from CPaul...

    My point is Yes, there will be a decline in numbers when a star is off the court - only makes sense. Rondo is NOT any of the offensively gifted PG mentioned above, his shill set is different. That said, add him to Granger, PGeorge, Hibbert could he not too put up solid numbers? Not the same numbers maybe that he did playing w/ 3 All-Stars, but it's all relative. He would make our scorers better & due to his defense give us more offensive opportunities.

    Say what you want, but I watch BOS games where HE was the best player they had on the court! ADD him to what we have, & we are MUCH better.
    "Larry Bird: You are Officially On the Clock! (3/24/08)"
    (Watching You Like A Hawk!)

  8. #532

    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    I appreciate the stats numbers on rondo but u also have to realize that he is also kinda a victim of his system with the age and physical limitations make it hard to really make rondo thrive like he should. He's a very fast player and accelerates on fastbreaks and the open field. (Dont really need a jumper for that do u lol) we would benefit from him being here especially with pg and granger and if we still have mcroberts man that sounds like an exciting show.....SHOWTIME! lol

  9. #533
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    Default Re: Pacers in talk with the Celtics about a Rondo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Indy View Post
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    I thought this leans toward the argument against acquiring Rondo by providing some empirical evidence. At the very least, not overbid with bids like DC, Granger/George, Hibbert and/or 1st.
    Those were some of the nuttiest bids I have ever seen.
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