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Thread: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by glazedham42 View Post
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    I say let someone else have him if that's the price. He's just flat out not worth that much. He's a cleanup guy on the boards, nothing more. His skill set isn't really that rare or difficult to learn.
    As mentioned before, Nene is one of the most efficient and effective Low Post scorers in the League. Yes, he sucks at rebounding for his size....but over the last 3 seasons....he averaged 14.3 ppg on 8.8 FGA while shooting 60% while taking 5.1 FTA line while making 70%. He's very effective on the scoring end by putting up 14+ ppg while not requiring the need to touch the ball on a regular basis on the offensive end.

    Putting up these scoring #s is not an easy skill to learn and IMHO a very valuable skill.

    If you want to have additional scoring threats in the Frontcourt that doesn't require the need to have ball in his hands ALL the time ( which also means that you can allow more touches for the rest of the Team ) in order to put up decent scoring #s....then Nene is your guy.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-29-2011 at 03:11 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  3. #77
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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    I don't want to overpay Nene, but how do you get around these arms?

    Hill
    George
    Granger
    Nene
    Hibbert

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I don't want to overpay Nene, but how do you get around these arms?

    Hill
    George
    Granger
    Nene
    Hibbert
    Yup, could be one of the best defensive units in the league.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I will concede here that yes, at a 4 year deal. We definitely would be getting our money's worth overall, as opposed to paying a 35-36 year old Nene over 20 Million a season.

    Agreed,

    I have no problem giving Nene a 4/52-ish Max Deal. Which I believe is about all he can get under the current system.

    I wouldn't do a sign in trade for him though. The only sign and trade I'd entertain would be for a Gasol+Mayo for Hibbert+Something type of deal.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    It will still be his yearly number that eats up the cap and keeps us from signing anyone else.
    By how much a team would be overpaying for? 3mil? 4mil? I don't really think is that much for a guy like him.


    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...sct=nba_t11_a0

    Here are Mannix comments regarding Nene and his contract:

    The Brazilian bruiser is everything a team could want in a center. He's young, physical and posted numbers that have been consistent (at least 75 games played, around 14 points and eight rebounds per game) over the last three seasons. Nene won't come cheap -- he reportedly is looking for more than $50 million over four years -- but he is a rare, almost All-Star-caliber starting center who can man the middle for a team for the next five years easily.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
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    Anyone who gives max money to a career 12 & 7 29-year-old deserves to be stuck in salary cap hell for years to come. In that regard, I hope some team does give it to him, preferably an Eastern Conference team not named the Indiana Pacers.

    After this year someone will have to make a similar decision on a lesser Roy Hibbert.

    Is Hibbert worth extending for 4/52?

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I will concede here that yes, at a 4 year deal. We definitely would be getting our money's worth overall, as opposed to paying a 35-36 year old Nene over 20 Million a season.
    This is exactly my point.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    The idea that people are actually thinking it is "OK" to pay Nene at 29 years old and a lifetime 16/7 guy 15 million per year for 5 years but would scoff at David West only 2 years older who's worst years are better than Nene's best years at 8 million per year for 4 years is crazier to me than these max offer type deals.

    Its simple:

    10 Million over 4 or 5? Lets do it!
    12 Million over 5? Tempting but No.
    14 Million over 5? Are you Crazy?
    18 Million over 5? Rashard Lewis makes fun of us himself

    Add in that simply adding Nene at BEST makes us the 3 or 4 seed in the East and we become the Atlanta Hawks lite with still no hope for a Championship run.

    No, no, no, no, no.
    I don't want to sound condescending, which means to talk down to you by the way

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    By how much a team would be overpaying for? 3mil? 4mil? I don't really think is that much for a guy like him.
    Agreed......IF Nene is looking for something close to what Chris Mannix is suggesting:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Mannix
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    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...sct=nba_t11_a0

    Nene won't come cheap -- he reportedly is looking for more than $50 million over four years -- but he is a rare, almost All-Star-caliber starting center who can man the middle for a team for the next five years easily.
    That is $12.5 mil per season. Some team will offer him that EASY. I'd even overpay and go up to $14 mil a year IF the Pacers really wanted him with some 4yr/$64 mil a year offer.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
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    The idea that people are actually thinking it is "OK" to pay Nene at 29 years old and a lifetime 16/7 guy 15 million per year for 5 years but would scoff at David West only 2 years older who's worst years are better than Nene's best years at 8 million per year for 4 years is crazier to me than these max offer type deals.

    Its simple:

    10 Million over 4 or 5? Lets do it!
    12 Million over 5? Tempting but No.
    14 Million over 5? Are you Crazy?
    18 Million over 5? Rashard Lewis makes fun of us himself

    Add in that simply adding Nene at BEST makes us the 3 or 4 seed in the East and we become the Atlanta Hawks lite with still no hope for a Championship run.

    No, no, no, no, no.
    With the new CBA free agents can only get 4 years max.

  15. #86

    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    The money being rumored for the Nenes and Wests terrify me about Roy's extension. I realize Roy's not the same tier of player as either (yet? a man can dream), but big fella's gonna get paid.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
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    The idea that people are actually thinking it is "OK" to pay Nene at 29 years old and a lifetime 16/7 guy 15 million per year for 5 years but would scoff at David West only 2 years older who's worst years are better than Nene's best years at 8 million per year for 4 years is crazier to me than these max offer type deals.

    Its simple:

    10 Million over 4 or 5? Lets do it!
    12 Million over 5? Tempting but No.
    14 Million over 5? Are you Crazy?
    18 Million over 5? Rashard Lewis makes fun of us himself

    Add in that simply adding Nene at BEST makes us the 3 or 4 seed in the East and we become the Atlanta Hawks lite with still no hope for a Championship run.

    No, no, no, no, no.
    He'll definitely get offered more than 12, which hopefully means that the Pacers move on.

    BTW, love your byline!

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
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    Add in that simply adding Nene at BEST makes us the 3 or 4 seed in the East and we become the Atlanta Hawks lite with still no hope for a Championship run.

    No, no, no, no, no.
    I think becoming a perennial Playoff Team ( like the Hawks are now ) will bring back the fans and the $$$ to the Pacers Organization...which is one of the primary short and medium range goals that the FO is looking to accomplish.

    To be fair....given the rise of the Super Teams...2 of them which are in the East...maybe a 4 to 6 seed is the best that we can hope for for the short term.

    "Baby Steps" is what I am looking with the moves that the FO is making in the next 2 seasons. We're not going to become a Championship Caliber Team the way that the Knicks and Heat overnight....we're only going to do it over time.

    If we are able to consistently become a 4th-6th Seeded Perennial Playoff Team...much like what the Hawks have done....than it's up to the Pacers FO to build upon that. Given Team Chemistry, more Playoff experience based off of the fouindation that the FO is laying now.....in the window that we have with Granger and anyone that we add next to him.....anything is possible. IMHO...building a strong foundation with a Team that has played together for a long time will go a long way to getting to the next level.

    Basically, you have to start building a foundation of core Players to start playing together at some point......adding Nene, Chandler or AlJeff next to Granger is a good start IMHO and has to be done sooner...rather than later.
    Last edited by CableKC; 11-29-2011 at 03:32 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    With the new CBA free agents can only get 4 years max.
    Ahh good call. I completely forgot that.

    Still any deal over 12 million for 4 years I would pass at. I'd much rather have West at 8 and Crawford at 7 than Nene at 15.
    I don't want to sound condescending, which means to talk down to you by the way

  20. #90

    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The money being rumored for the Nenes and Wests terrify me about Roy's extension. I realize Roy's not the same tier of player as either (yet? a man can dream), but big fella's gonna get paid.
    If you sign Nene then you can let Roy walk or trade him away if no extension can be reached. I think Roy is worth 10 to 11 million in "next" years market which is more competitve than this years.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
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    Ahh good call. I completely forgot that.

    Still any deal over 12 million for 4 years I would pass at. I'd much rather have West at 8 and Crawford at 7 than Nene at 15.
    West is going to get somewhere around 10 mill. This is just crappy FA class and those get overpaid.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The money being rumored for the Nenes and Wests terrify me about Roy's extension. I realize Roy's not the same tier of player as either (yet? a man can dream), but big fella's gonna get paid.
    Can't we extend him now? I hope we do. Get him now while we can maybe still lock him in at/under 10 Million per.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I think becoming a perennial Playoff Team ( like the Hawks are now ) will bring back the fans and the $$$ to the Pacers Organization...which is one of the primary short and medium range goals that the FO is looking to accomplish.

    To be fair....given the rise of the Super Teams...2 of them which are in the East...maybe a 4 to 6 seed is the best that we can hope for for the short term.

    "Baby Steps" is what I am looking with the moves that the FO is making in the next 2 seasons. We're not going to become a Championship Caliber Team the way that the Knicks and Heat have built....we're only going to do it over time.

    If we are able to consistently become a 4th-6th Seeded Perennial Playoff Team...much like what the Hawks have done....than it's up to the Pacers FO to build upon that. Given Team Chemistry, more Playoff experience based off of the fouindation that the FO is laying now.....in the window that we have with Granger and anyone that we add next to him.....anything is possible. IMHO...building a strong foundation with a Team that has played together for a long time will go a long way to getting to the next level. Doing it sooner...rather than later...is going to make a difference for whoever we add next to Granger.

    Basically, you have to start building a foundation of core Players to start playing together at some point......adding Nene, Chandler or AlJeff next to Granger is a good start IMHO.
    I actually agree with everything fundamentally you are saying but I just think we can still position ourselves with a better chance to make other moves down the road as well upon which Nene would hamstring us to do.

    So while I realistically believe that our ceiling is a new Hawks type roster I just don't want to give up on anything beyond that quite yet is all. To me that hope is where the big difference lies and I want to keep it alive.
    I don't want to sound condescending, which means to talk down to you by the way

  23. #93

    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Can't we extend him now? I hope we do. Get him now while we can maybe still lock him in at/under 10 Million per.
    I believe we can by the third year of his rookie contract so Yes... I agree that this is the best way to keep his cost reasonable.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
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    Ahh good call. I completely forgot that.

    Still any deal over 12 million for 4 years I would pass at. I'd much rather have West at 8 and Crawford at 7 than Nene at 15.
    To add to Gamble1's post.....West and JCraw are going to be looking for more then 8 and 7 mil a year. No way that West will settle at $8 mil......on top of that...there will be Teams that would offer him that easily.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  25. #95

    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    I believe we can by the third year of his rookie contract so Yes... I agree that this is the best way to keep his cost reasonable.
    We did that with Danny, no? Danny's not the bargain he used to be, but coming off the year he had then it was a nice deal for us.

  26. #96

    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    We did that with Danny, no? Danny's not the bargain he used to be, but coming off the year he had then it was a nice deal for us.
    Yes and it was for 5 years.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I think becoming a perennial Playoff Team ( like the Hawks are now ) will bring back the fans and the $$$ to the Pacers Organization...which is one of the primary short and medium range goals that the FO is looking to accomplish.

    To be fair....given the rise of the Super Teams...2 of them which are in the East...maybe a 4 to 6 seed is the best that we can hope for for the short term.

    "Baby Steps" is what I am looking with the moves that the FO is making in the next 2 seasons. We're not going to become a Championship Caliber Team the way that the Knicks and Heat overnight....we're only going to do it over time.

    If we are able to consistently become a 4th-6th Seeded Perennial Playoff Team...much like what the Hawks have done....than it's up to the Pacers FO to build upon that. Given Team Chemistry, more Playoff experience based off of the fouindation that the FO is laying now.....in the window that we have with Granger and anyone that we add next to him.....anything is possible. IMHO...building a strong foundation with a Team that has played together for a long time will go a long way to getting to the next level.

    Basically, you have to start building a foundation of core Players to start playing together at some point......adding Nene, Chandler or AlJeff next to Granger is a good start IMHO and has to be done sooner...rather than later.
    Except for one thing, all it takes is one injury to Lebron James or Wade. Melo or Amare, and all the sudden the 3-4 seed Pacers look like favorites to win the East. There is no depth in these superteams.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    We did that with Danny, no? Danny's not the bargain he used to be, but coming off the year he had then it was a nice deal for us.
    Danny actually had his all star year after signing the extension. This is the exact reason I hope the front office extends Hibbert now. Danny would have cost us so much more if we hadn't done it that way.
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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Nene and Hibbert together?





    Last edited by vnzla81; 11-29-2011 at 03:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Nene wants out, Pacers one of teams mentioned

    Quote Originally Posted by A.B.Hollywood View Post
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    I actually agree with everything fundamentally you are saying but I just think we can still position ourselves with a better chance to make other moves down the road as well upon which Nene would hamstring us to do.

    So while I realistically believe that our ceiling is a new Hawks type roster I just don't want to give up on anything beyond that quite yet is all. To me that hope is where the big difference lies and I want to keep it alive.
    The reality is that IF we want to extend Hibbert...we can only add 1 Near-MAX or MAX contract to the roster between now and the 2012-2013 season. In the end....the only move that I can see hindering us is IF the Pacers truly are looking to make a move for a Player like Eric Gordon next season.

    If the Pacers add a Player at a Near MAX to MAX contract this season....while looking to extend Hibbert....it would leave roughly $6 to 8 mil in Capspace in the 2012-2013 season.....which would be enough for a Starting Quality Player at one of the positions....but one that is not an All Star Level Player.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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