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Thread: What has Darren Collison done.......

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    Default What has Darren Collison done.......

    to warrant his inclusion in most of our fan proposed trade scenarios. I understand he didn't have his best year last year, but we have to understand it was a brand new team for him and two different coaches. Dont forget, last year was his second year in the league. This year I believe our coaching staff has improved and I want collison here for the ride. He will be better this year, I'm sure of it. Darren Collison and George Hill will be great for each other. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I love the guy's heart. He came in and said he wanted to get us to the playoffs and he helped us get there. I just don't understand why some of you want him gone, so it seems.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I don't think it's necessarily people "wanting him gone", it's the possibility that we could get a large amount of value out of him.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Most? Come on, I've seen him mentioned extensively only in one proposed trade and that is the Rondo deal, whcih is really more dreaming than anything else. And it makes complete sense to try and include Collison in that deal, for both him and us.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I want Darren on the team. He's one of my favorite Pacers. Hell, I have his home and away jersey. I wish he were a little taller, but I wish the same for myself.

    I just think he is the most likely asset to be traded if we have to give someone up for a big man. We just brought in Hill, I think PG is close to untouchable and nobody is really going to want Rush/Jones. It also sounds like Larry isn't sending Lance anywhere unless he's saying he's "the most talented player" to up his trade value, but I doubt anyone would bite on that.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I just don't think he is good enough to be a starting point guard on a contender. he lacks size, height and strength. Also his defense is really bad. Look at last year against the Bulls, he had no chance to even slow down Rose so much so that the coaching staff had to put a non-point guard on Rose which destorts the rest of our defense.

    He also has a lot of trouble seeing the floor, making sound point guard decisions. His point guard skills and his point guard instincts are subpar.

    All of these negatives I have mentioned are not things IMO that will change or improve over the years.

    If the Pacers want to be a 50 plus win team they need someone better than Darren. He would be a very good backup

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by gknjr007 View Post
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    to warrant his inclusion in most of our fan proposed trade scenarios. I understand he didn't have his best year last year, but we have to understand it was a brand new team for him and two different coaches. Dont forget, last year was his second year in the league. This year I believe our coaching staff has improved and I want collison here for the ride. He will be better this year, I'm sure of it. Darren Collison and George Hill will be great for each other. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I love the guy's heart. He came in and said he wanted to get us to the playoffs and he helped us get there. I just don't understand why some of you want him gone, so it seems.
    I can't imagine anyone having bad feelings about the guy, and I would be happy if he remained a member of the team. However, if he could fetch us a talent upgrade, like Millsap... I'd trade him in a New York minute.

    When I spoke to Rush a couple of months ago, he was pretty adamant that he didn't like playing with him. While that doesn't mean anything particularly (especially coming from Rush), it's clear that DC hasn't gelled here in the same way as let's say PG has on the roster.

    I want this team to get better.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by docpaul View Post
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    When I spoke to Rush a couple of months ago, he was pretty adamant that he didn't like playing with him. While that doesn't mean anything particularly (especially coming from Rush), it's clear that DC hasn't gelled here in the same way as let's say PG has on the roster.
    So if Rush's comments didn't mean anything, how is it clear that Darren hasn't gelled?

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Most? Come on, I've seen him mentioned extensively only in one proposed trade and that is the Rondo deal, whcih is really more dreaming than anything else. And it makes complete sense to try and include Collison in that deal, for both him and us.
    Dont forget the Milsap trade.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    He has to

    -dramatically improve defensively
    -see the floor much better

    Those are two really pretty important things for a Point Guard on a good team.

    No one on this team is untouchable and especially not off limits to discuss as part of a trade to improve the team, overall.

    I don't think George Hill is the answer either. Both are good players, but I like my starting point guard to be a faciliator. Averaging 2.5 or 5 assists a game, isn't getting that done. Heck, I could almost live with those numbers depending on the type of offense being run (low post dominant), but if so, you need to be able to get through a pick and roll defensively.

    AJ Price was way way better at defending the pick and roll than DC last year.

    I like DC, I think he can and will improve, but he really does have a bunch to work on. I'll be interested to see what he does this year.

    It was interesting when the Pacers acquired him last year. Some thought he could be a quality above average starter, but many saw a really good career back up. I can see why people said both things.

    More... DC not improving is my biggest fear about spending all of the extra money now. If he doesn't get better and we are looking 3 years down the road, you've made a mistake not accounting for spending some of your cap space on a starting caliber point guard.
    Last edited by Speed; 11-29-2011 at 01:55 PM.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Another general rule, anyone is fair game in a trade. Even the best player in the NBA could be traded for, under the right circumstances. Its not a diss, if anything you could see it as a compliment.

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  16. #11

    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I still believe he can have a year similar to his rookie year. He had good assist numbers that year. Its in him.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I just don't think he is good enough to be a starting point guard on a contender. he lacks size, height and strength. Also his defense is really bad. Look at last year against the Bulls, he had no chance to even slow down Rose so much so that the coaching staff had to put a non-point guard on Rose which destorts the rest of our defense.

    He also has a lot of trouble seeing the floor, making sound point guard decisions. His point guard skills and his point guard instincts are subpar.

    All of these negatives I have mentioned are not things IMO that will change or improve over the years.

    If the Pacers want to be a 50 plus win team they need someone better than Darren. He would be a very good backup

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    This coming from the guy who drools at the prospect of adding Baron Davis.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    This coming from the guy who drools at the prospect of adding Baron Davis.



    edit: are you trying to compare Baron to DC?
    Last edited by vnzla81; 11-29-2011 at 02:20 PM.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    So if Rush's comments didn't mean anything, how is it clear that Darren hasn't gelled?
    I think they do mean something, they're just not definitive. His criticism that he wasn't "fun" to play with because he's always looking for his own shot are likely some element of sour grapes, but there's some element of truth to it. I watched the games, as Rush did. He had very complimentary things to say about a lot of the other guys.

    Hey, we'll see what the FO thinks, soon enough. My simple point is that he's more likely on the trading block than Granger, George, Hibbert, Hill, Hansbrough. I'd be happy to have him around, but don't see him off the trade radar.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I hope he isn't moved.... Poor guy deserves to have a head coach for more than six months!
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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    IMHO....I think that IF the Pacers are interested in Milsap or AlJeff.....the Jazz will likely be asking the Team taking them on to take on Raja Bell ( likely ) or Devin Harris ( depending on whether they are really rebuilding or not ).

    If Devin Harris is to be included.....IMHO...I'd easily add DC to the trade...if not to make more sense for the Jazz to fill out the PG rotation...but to upgrade the PG position. Devin Harris maybe more serviceable as a Starting PG than DC is and you don't have to worry about any other Team shooting over our Starting PG.

    Either way, as some have noted....I'm not going to include DC in any trade unless it makes sense...as in, we are improving our PG rotation.
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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    IMHO....I think that IF the Pacers are interested in Milsap or AlJeff.....the Jazz will likely be asking the Team taking them on to take on Raja Bell ( likely ) or Devin Harris ( depending on whether they are really rebuilding or not ).

    If Devin Harris is to be included.....IMHO...I'd easily add DC to the trade...if not to make more sense for the Jazz to fill out the PG rotation...but to upgrade the PG position. Devin Harris maybe more serviceable as a Starting PG than DC is and you don't have to worry about any other Team shooting over our Starting PG.

    Either way, as some have noted....I'm not going to include DC in any trade unless it makes sense...as in, we are improving our PG rotation.
    George Hill/Devin Harris? HMMM... Interesting.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I'd classify DC as an expendable asset. I think of Hansbrough the same way.

    I think our core players we really don't want to move are Granger, Hibbert, and Paul George. You better be getting a sure thing if you are moving any of those guys.

    DC, Hansbrough, Draft Pick. These are the assets most expendable in terms of improving the team. They have value and we can live without them, IMO.
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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    George Hill/Devin Harris? HMMM... Interesting.
    I really have no idea if Utah intends on moving Harris, but if they want to cut some salary, we make excellent trading partners.

    DC, Rush, and a 1st for Millsap/Harris would be the end of our cap room, but I like it.
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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    More... DC not improving is my biggest fear about spending all of the extra money now. If he doesn't get better and we are looking 3 years down the road, you've made a mistake not accounting for spending some of your cap space on a starting caliber point guard.
    Are you forgetting about Lance?

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    Quote Originally Posted by gknjr007 View Post
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    to warrant his inclusion in most of our fan proposed trade scenarios.
    What has Darren Collison done to warrant not being included in any possible scenarios?

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I have no problem with him sticking around but:

    - The value that he has right now might be his peak, if not it is close.

    - He is a 6th man type player

    - We have a lot going on at the 1 & 2 position

    - We have other areas to improve(in my view)
    Why so SERIOUS

  33. #24

    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I've gone on record as saying that I think DC has potential. I think he's fully capable of developing into a very good starting PG. But he has to improve. He has to improve his defense, he has to adjust to the size of the NBA, and he has to learn to be more in control, and his decision making. I think that's possible. I think he's capable of being an adequate defender, and I think the other three things are a result of youth, rather than DC being stupid.

    But it's just logical..
    You don't take a change on Lance, and try to turn him into a point guard, if you think DC is your point of the future. This idea that Lance was worth the trouble of a 15 mpg backup PG is ludicrous. We know Larry is invested in Lance. Which means he can't be all that invested in DC. So DC is insurance. Then we traded for GHill, who could play the point. (Supposedly, I've heard various opinions and I haven't seen much of him so I won't state anything there.) I think DC will always be a better player than Lance, but that's another discussion, and Larry obviously disagrees.

    So we've got three other players on the team that can play point, (supposedly) we need a starting quality PF, DC was insurance, not the intended point of the future..he's got a higher value then any of the other points, so he's the one that would be used.

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    Default Re: What has Darren Collison done.......

    I'm interested to see how he does this season.

    He's someone with potential and hopefully he worked to improve his lack of leadership and court vision at the point.

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