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Thread: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

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    #Franking Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    The Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    The Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers
    just take it out of the players BRI and pay them. gesh

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    This is off topic from the lockout news or any discussion about it really, but as far as that deal they have with the spirits is there any way out of that to where they can just take some legal hit for refusal to pay anything pay whatever fines that would entail and be done? surely it's better than continue to hemmorhage money to a nonexistant franchise.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    This is off topic from the lockout news or any discussion about it really, but as far as that deal they have with the spirits is there any way out of that to where they can just take some legal hit for refusal to pay anything pay whatever fines that would entail and be done? surely it's better than continue to hemmorhage money to a nonexistant franchise.
    How do you break a deal that doesn't expire? Not one but four teams were that stupid.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by speakout4 View Post
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    How do you break a deal that doesn't expire? Not one but four teams were that stupid.
    The Pacers and the other three are obligated to pay these guys apparently my question is so what happens if they all just refuse to pay?

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDon View Post
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    The Pacers and the other three are obligated to pay these guys apparently my question is so what happens if they all just refuse to pay?
    the lawyers get involved and the old ABA teams will end up paying triple. a contract is a contract, dumb or not.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Yeah i'm sure if they could have figured a way to get out of it and cut their losses somehow they would have figured it out by now. Otherwise you probably wouldn't have seen these owners just kind of throw their hands up in the air, give up, and pay year after year.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xIndyFan View Post
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    the lawyers get involved and the old ABA teams will end up paying triple. a contract is a contract, dumb or not.
    Where does the triple coming from? They can force you to pay up but triple?

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    The Silna brothers already benefit from the smartest sports transaction in history. Don't be pushing your luck boys.

    On a side note, has anyone else noticed that NBATv hasn't shown many games involving the ABA merger squads? I honestly can only recall one or two Denver games on there, maybe one Nets game from 93, and then the Pacer games they've shown, and thats it.
    Last edited by Sandman21; 11-23-2011 at 12:04 AM.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    The thing is, with contractual law there can be an issue if a contract is TOO one-sided (including issues with contracts that don't end).

    I've always wondered why this contract didn't trip that type of standard. But you'd think at the costs involved it's either iron clad or there's some poison pill for challenging it that would make the risk greater than the reward.

    I'm surprised that one of the teams, if not all, don't get together and say 'no more payments' and do whatever is necessary to get out from under the burden. And fight it to the end.

    That they don't again speaks to the iron clad nature of the deal. Or maybe the teams feel obligated to uphold the terms even if it's went far overboard any reasonable expectations of either side when the agreement was signed.

    The lack of challenges amazes me. It's that blatantly well-written that it's not even worth a challenge in court?
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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    If I recall correctly, the Pacers could have bought out the contract in the 80s for something like 3 million and they refused. Anyone else remember this? Please correct me if I am wrong.

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingfish View Post
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    If I recall correctly, the Pacers could have bought out the contract in the 80s for something like 3 million and they refused. Anyone else remember this? Please correct me if I am wrong.
    I was reading about that earlier. It was the NBA offering $5 million. The Spirits wanted $8 million and the NBA said no.

    From this article:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/31/sports/sp-aba31

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    The thing is, with contractual law there can be an issue if a contract is TOO one-sided (including issues with contracts that don't end).

    I've always wondered why this contract didn't trip that type of standard.
    But you'd think at the costs involved it's either iron clad or there's some poison pill for challenging it that would make the risk greater than the reward.

    I'm surprised that one of the teams, if not all, don't get together and say 'no more payments' and do whatever is necessary to get out from under the burden. And fight it to the end.

    That they don't again speaks to the iron clad nature of the deal. Or maybe the teams feel obligated to uphold the terms even if it's went far overboard any reasonable expectations of either side when the agreement was signed.

    The lack of challenges amazes me. It's that blatantly well-written that it's not even worth a challenge in court?
    My guess would be that it would be argued that while they have certainly made more money than they ever should have, they still had to close their doors and thus are not able to profit from the overall business of the NBA.

    You & I both know that financially they are better off with the deal they have but that would be almost impossible to prove in court.

    No, this contract has been iron clad and the Pacers (as well as the other three ABA teams) have tried in the past (& failed) to end this thing.


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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Seems surreal, but it also sounds legitimate.

    As wrong as Madoff was, I am glad that he took a lot of the Silnas' money.

    Unfortunately for the Silnas', their pressing for this has come at a very inopportune time. They may well force the existing franchises that owe this money to be dissolved and reconstituted elsewhere to relieve the burden going forward. At the very least, it has to play a small part in the hard line stance of some owners regarding the lockout, and this only serves to reinforce that IMO.

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers


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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    **** 'em. IMO, they have been more than well compensated already and shouldn't get another dime from that deal.

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Strummer View Post
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    I was reading about that earlier. It was the NBA offering $5 million. The Spirits wanted $8 million and the NBA said no.

    From this article:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul/31/sports/sp-aba31
    That's crazy.

    Scenario 1 - you pay them $8 million to go away....

    Scenario 2 - teams continue to pay them $3 million or $x million per YEAR for eternity...

    AND the NBA said no???

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    I wonder what they would want now to break the contract?

    The Hornets?
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. Ö You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    That's crazy.

    Scenario 1 - you pay them $8 million to go away....

    Scenario 2 - teams continue to pay them $3 million or $x million per YEAR for eternity...

    AND the NBA said no???
    The Simons bought the Pacers for $11 million in 1983.

    In 1982, asking for $8 million would have sounded like asking for over $200 million today.

    Their share wouldn't have been anywhere near $3mm per year in 1982. They were still showing weeknight finals games on tape delay in 1982.

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    I wonder what they would want now to break the contract?

    The Hornets?
    I know the Association doesn't care if the ABA refgugees have to pay, but it always seemed like theleague would have been active in trying to get rid of this inequity at each expansion.

    It seems crazy to me that the Mavs, Heat, etc., entered the league without chipping in on this cost. If they really feel deprived at not having a franchise, the Hornets would be a fair exchange to end this stupid deal.

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    The Simons bought the Pacers for $11 million in 1983.

    In 1982, asking for $8 million would have sounded like asking for over $200 million today.

    Their share wouldn't have been anywhere near $3mm per year in 1982. They were still showing weeknight finals games on tape delay in 1982.
    It reminds me of the Dr. Evil scene with the government looking back at it.
    "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grover View Post
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    I know the Association doesn't care if the ABA refgugees have to pay, but it always seemed like theleague would have been active in trying to get rid of this inequity at each expansion.

    It seems crazy to me that the Mavs, Heat, etc., entered the league without chipping in on this cost. If they really feel deprived at not having a franchise, the Hornets would be a fair exchange to end this stupid deal.
    IIRC, Stern was asked about this at the infamous 2004 luncheon he had with season ticket holders, and he said something to the effect that they've tried to help in the past but there's not much they can do. Of course, this was the same luncheon where Stern talked about what a great guy Artest was, six months before he disavowed ever meeting the man.
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    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    Quote Originally Posted by Grover View Post
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    I know the Association doesn't care if the ABA refgugees have to pay, but it always seemed like theleague would have been active in trying to get rid of this inequity at each expansion.

    It seems crazy to me that the Mavs, Heat, etc., entered the league without chipping in on this cost. If they really feel deprived at not having a franchise, the Hornets would be a fair exchange to end this stupid deal.
    indeed, it'd be hard to argue that the old deal is fair in court if you were offered an NBA team and you refused.

    It's probably not likely, too many issues. Like, do you allow them to move it to St Louis and call it Spirits? It's a potential PR hit.
    Also, what's the Hornets worth? NBA paid 300 mil for it, but considering close to 200 mil was debt assumption, it's really a 100-150 mil franchise. I assume the debt is still there, and you'd have to shave it off. That's ~50 mil hit for Pacers and each of the other 3.
    Also, how do you compensate the other 25 owners who have a piece in Hornets atm? That's potentially even more $ from the Pacers.

    Still, at some point someone has to find a resolution, it can't just last forever.

  30. #25

    Default Re: Spirits of St. Louis owners want MORE money from the Pacers

    This is a case of greed, plain and simple.

    There is no reason whatsoever for plaintiffs to be paid indefinitely from an organization that has paid them their rightful "local broadcast fees" as the structured settlement originally called for. (I remember reading about this case a few years back and if memory serves me correctly, that was the jest of the matter - a percentage of the local broadcasting revenue, not cable, not international games, etc.)

    What's very clear to me is that the plantiffs are trying to use this "open-ended revenue agreement" to recoup their losses from the revenue they lost in the Berney Madoff ponzi scheme. I say, "tough ***t!!!" That's what happens when you take investment risks!!!

    If I were Herb Simon (or is it Mel who owns the team now?), I'd give serious consideration to folding the Pacers and bring them back just to make the original lawsuit is void because the team disbanded then make the argument the any new claims by the plantiffs are null and void.

    This non-expiration of payments crap is just that - CRAP! No one should be allowed to get paid indefinitely in this way! Even lawsuits against large corporations with big financial settlements in the hundreds of millions of dollars have an end-point for their payouts.

    This is ridiculous!!!
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 11-23-2011 at 02:25 PM.

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