View Poll Results: The Colts have the #1 pick. They should:

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  • Draft Luck, then trade him

    2 5.00%
  • Draft Luck, then trade Manning

    13 32.50%
  • Draft Luck, and put him on the bench behind Manning for 2-3 years

    25 62.50%
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Thread: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

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    Default Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    With the Colts now standing at 0-10, and a full two games ahead of the next team in the Luck Sweepstakes, it's time to start considering what would happen if the Colts get the #1 pick and the right to draft Andrew Luck.

    Even if the Colts ultimately decide to keep Manning, I'd like to think that they'd still be smart enough to draft Luck and then trade him if that's the route they decide to take.

    If you were in charge, what would you do?

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Draft Luck and let him sit for two years as Manning's understudy. My gut feeling is Peyton will be back and after getting hit for two seasons he'll be willing to retire. Irsay will let Peyton choose a position in the Colts organization if that is what he wants.
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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Draft Luck and have him sit behind Manning is the ideal situation. I think you can easily sell that to Luck. Just tell what sitting behind great quarterbacks did for Steve Young and Aaron Rodgers.

    Now if Luck wants to start right away and throws a fit, then I think you trade down, draft another QB and acquire some other good players.
    WE ARE NOT GETTING ERIC GORDON

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Andrew Luck is NOT going to come to Indy and sit for two years. This is his jr. season. He will either force Indy to trade him, or he will go back to school. But the #1 draft prospect in the last 10+ years isn't going to go come and watch from the bench.

    You can talk about Aaron Rodgers all you want, but Rodgers was taken 24th and wasn't anywhere near Luck's perceived level.

    The most NFL ready QB since Peyton Manning isn't going to sit for two years.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Andrew Luck is NOT going to come to Indy and sit for two years. This is his jr. season. He will either force Indy to trade him, or he will go back to school. But the #1 draft prospect in the last 10+ years isn't going to go come and watch from the bench.

    You can talk about Aaron Rodgers all you want, but Rodgers was taken 24th and wasn't anywhere near Luck's perceived level.

    The most NFL ready QB since Peyton Manning isn't going to sit for two years.
    Nor does it make all that much sense on the field. OK, Peyton's good enough to play, but instead of trading the #1 pick for a king's ransom and making this a contender again we use it on a guy that'll ride the bench. Keeping them both is the worst option. You don't have an asset like Luck/Manning, take your pick, and not capitalize on it.

    For the question, too early to tell. All depends on The Neck.
    Last edited by Heisenberg; 11-14-2011 at 10:14 AM.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Maybe he would back to school, but that #1 money would really be hard to turn down. Those thoughts of blowing out knee and not getting paid for another year of college ball would really mess with the head. It's pay day time friends and Luck should be smart enough to grab the cash. You would also think he is competitive enough to think he'll beat out the old man for the starting job.
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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Luck's coming out, he said so. Maybe he pulls an Eli or something, but he's absolutely coming out.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Andrew Luck is NOT going to come to Indy and sit for two years. This is his jr. season. He will either force Indy to trade him, or he will go back to school. But the #1 draft prospect in the last 10+ years isn't going to go come and watch from the bench.

    You can talk about Aaron Rodgers all you want, but Rodgers was taken 24th and wasn't anywhere near Luck's perceived level.

    The most NFL ready QB since Peyton Manning isn't going to sit for two years.


    I agree 100% with this. The Colts aren't going to be able to have their cake and eat it too. It's either going to be Peyton or Luck.

    Peyton respected the hell out of Dan Marino, but that doesn't mean that he would have wanted to sit behind him for a few years. He knew he was good enough to play immediately and that there were several teams (like the Colts) who would gladly start him immediately. Luck is in the same boat. Yeah you could learn a lot from sitting behind Manning, but you can learn even more by getting out there and playing immediately and getting actual in-game experience. Manning is a huge advocate for rookies playing immediately (I remember reading comments a few years ago about how he thought Sanchez should start on day 1), so he would probably think it to be a disservice to Luck to make him sit.

    A guy like Luck or Peyton just isn't going to want to wait until age 25 to play. You lose out on some key years if you have to wait.

    We are in for a roller-coaster ride for the next few months. The Super Bowl is going to be here, yet it may not even be the biggest story in town at the time. We are likely going to be sitting with the number 1 draft and contemplating whether we take a 22 year old phenom or have enough faith that our soon-to-be 35 year old HOF QB can play a few more seasons. Wow, this is going to be huge. We have to know by early March if Peyton is healthy enough to justify passing up one of the most hyped draft picks ever, because that's when we have to make the decision on picking up Manning's monster option. A mere 3 and a half months seems like a very tight window to know if he will be healthy enough to justify doing something as bold as trading this pick. It's very likely that we never see Peyton take another snap here again. If you trade a phenom with 15 years ahead of him because you are going with a 36 year old QB, then you better know damn well that that 36 year old is very healthy. And it may be impossible to know that in such a short window. The Colts and Manning might not be able to answer that question.

    Think of all the drafts over the years where there is no great QB, yet Manning goes down in a year where one of the most hyped guys ever is coming out and the team is so bad without him that they are in prime position to draft him. You couldn't make this up.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    So, how many 1st round college players have been drafted and then set out the year to go back into the draft because they didn't want to go to a secific team?
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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    So, how many 1st round college players have been drafted and then set out the year to go back into the draft because they didn't want to go to a secific team?
    He would just do what Eli did to San Diego which I hear is a possibility with the Lucks.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Andrew Luck is NOT going to come to Indy and sit for two years. This is his jr. season. He will either force Indy to trade him, or he will go back to school. But the #1 draft prospect in the last 10+ years isn't going to go come and watch from the bench.

    You can talk about Aaron Rodgers all you want, but Rodgers was taken 24th and wasn't anywhere near Luck's perceived level.

    The most NFL ready QB since Peyton Manning isn't going to sit for two years.
    You may be right or you may be wrong.. Its hard to say that a guy will NOT do anything before you ask him to do it.

    The Colts need a lot more information here. They won't know if Manning will be healthy by the decision time and they don't know what Mannings trade value will be on or after draft night.

    Do the Polains go up to Luck or his agent and say we are going to trade Manning if he is healthy? Is that what is commonly done?

    I still like having both on the team even if its for one year. Luck trade value IMO is at the highest it will be but Mannings is at the lowest. IF the Colts trade Manning I would hope its after next year where he can be fully healthy and increase his trade value by playing.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-14-2011 at 10:26 AM.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Luck's coming out, he said so. Maybe he pulls an Eli or something, but he's absolutely coming out.
    Pryor said he was coming back too. Until he signs with an agent, he always has the option.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    He would just do what Eli did to San Diego which I hear is a possibility with the Lucks.
    The leverage is different with this CBA.

    The number one overall pick this year got paid 22 mill over 4 years. Thats a lot different than paying Eli 54 mill over 6 years with a 20 million dollar signing bonus.

    The Chargers had a young Brees already and it was his contract year. There were more unknowns with the Chargers than there are with the COlts.

    IT was a different situation all together. Luck has leverage but its not the same as Eli had. Basically all Luck can do is go back to college and if he makes that decision than it has to be well before the draft.

    One QB doing this under an old CBA doesn't set a precedent IMO.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 11-14-2011 at 10:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    It's a terrible thing to say but it's possible the best scenario for the team would be Manning's injury to be career ending. That at least takes the guesswork out of things.

    Ideally, having Luck sit on the bench for 2-3 years behind a healthy Manning would put the Colts in a great situation. But as everyone says, that's probably not a realistic situation with a young QB who has the ability to make some demands.

    And there's all kinds of scenarios that pop up with the above plan. What if Manning leads the team to a SB or two in those supposed final 2-3 years? Then do you still want to 'Leno' him? Does he change his mind about retirement and force your hand? And do you kick Luck to the curb at that point or do you take the PR hit and trade Manning?

    Arguably, maybe that's a good problem to have looking forward... I don't know...

    ...And remember, you're betting against the clock because how many years would Manning have left anyway?

    And does it matter who the QB is if Polian doesn't do a better job of building a football team around him?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    One QB doing this under an old CBA doesn't set a precedent IMO.
    So that explains how John Elway and how he forced the Balt. Colts to trade him to Denver?

    There's more examples out there than just one.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Elway also had offers to play baseball.
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    Elway also had offers to play baseball.
    Exactly!

    Each situation is different and the leverage is different. ELways big complaint was that the Colts wouldn't allow him to be successful which is probably right.

    Lucks leverage is what? I am going back to college? I just have a hard time thinking some kid is going to bully Polain around on a situation like this.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    And Luck has options to return to college. It's not about what option they have, but just having an option and using it as leverage. It might just very well be a bluff.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Lucks leverage is what? I am going back to college? I just have a hard time thinking some kid is going to bully Polain around on a situation like this.
    Players try to bully GMs all the time, why would Luck be any different? Why would a team want to draft a player, that made it clear they didn't want to play there?

    I'm not saying it's going to happen, but you can't just write it off like it's not a possibility.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm not saying it's going to happen, but you can't just write it off like it's not a possibility.
    You have to take that risk.
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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    It's simple: You take the best QB prospect in over a decade and worry about everything else later. Just like when the Spurs already had Robinson but took a duplicate in Duncan.

    Manning is in his mid-30s and is coming off 3 neck surgeries. There isn't a time table as to when he'll ever play again. A team that is coming off a horrendous season and has shown massive holes at all positions on the field shouldn't bet all their chips that a guy of Manning's age and current injury problems is all of a sudden going to turn into his old self again the moment he gets back.......if he ever gets back at all.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by RWB View Post
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    You have to take that risk.
    No you don't. Regardless, Luck doesn't fix the Colt's problems. Why would you miss out on getting a jump start fixing those other problems, AND miss out on your QB?

    That would be outright dumb.

    If, for some reason, Luck does go back to college, you look like a total fool.

    You trade the #1 pick and just stack up on draft picks. And besides, why wouldn't you just drop down and draft, say, Matt Barkley? He's having a great year, that is getting lost because of USC's postseason ban.

    I would much rather see the Colts jumpstart rebuilding their team, instead of swapping one QB for a different QB.

    EDIT: Once again, the whole conversation revolves around how healthy you think Manning will be. If he's gone for the rest of his career, then I really dont' care what option the Colts take.

    But if Luck starts saying how he doesn't want to play for Indy, then you've got to trade the pick. But I think he only does that, if Peyton comes back and is healthy enough to play next season.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-14-2011 at 11:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    .

    You trade the #1 pick and just stack up on draft picks. And besides, why wouldn't you just drop down and draft, say, Matt Barkley? He's having a great year, that is getting lost because of USC's postseason ban.

    I would much rather see the Colts jumpstart rebuilding their team, instead of swapping one QB for a different QB.
    So tell us, what's the asking price? What team is going to come to the plate with the offer we can't refuse? What happens if the only offer is two #1s and some 2nd rounders. We've already been drafting late in the first so I doubt anything thrown by a team as a second rounder is going to save us.

    Actually if you're going to trade that pick then forget the draft picks. Obviously it's all or nothing for Peyton's last few years so give me your best players currently on your team and make the last efforts for some super bowls. If you're still saying no, I want the draft picks to build toward the future then I disagree whole heartedly about draft picks and want THE DRAFT PICK in Luck. You'll still get the 1st pick in each round this year and if you suck again next year you'll once again be picking higher in the draft.
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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    As a closet Colts fan - trade him for the HOUSE, get as many picks and young guys as you can, and start your rebuild with Peyton (or even without Peyton) and work your way from there.

    As a Redskins fan - PLEASE, DEAR GOD, DO NOT CALL DAN!

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    Default Re: Manning vs. Luck - What would you do?

    Peter King started answering that question weeks ago.

    Not a lot of people would know, because there have been very few times in NFL history when a relatively sure-fire quarterback prospect such as Luck comes out in the draft. So I asked the only general manager in history (I believe) who has been in position twice to take the top quarterback in a quarterback-heavy draft: Ernie Accorsi. In 1983, he was the rookie GM with the Baltimore Colts who set a high price tag for John Elway. In 2004, he was the veteran GM of the Giants and juggled Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Ben Roethlisberger at the top of the draft, considering all and trading for Manning.

    Accorsi told me he has seen Luck on TV but would be doing an injustice to scouting by having an opinion on Luck, the player. But he did tell me if Luck is in league with Elway as a prospect -- which is the widely held view of many scouts; not better, and maybe not as good, but in the same league -- then the Elway situation is a good barometer. Accorsi set a price tag of three first-round picks and two second-rounders for the first pick of the '83 draft, which certainly would be used on Elway. He never got the deal he wanted, so the Colts picked Elway No. 1.

    But Baltimore owner Robert Irsay commandeered the trade negotiations for Elway once he found out signing him would cost $5 million over five years. (Exorbitant at the time, ridiculously reasonable in retrospect.) Irsay dealt Elway to Denver for the fourth pick in that year's draft (tackle Chris Hinton) plus Denver's first-round pick in 1984 and marginal quarterback prospect Mark Herrmann. Two ones and a backup quarterback, basically, for Elway. Turned out to be dirt-cheap compensation. Elway led the Broncos to five Super Bowls, winning two. "Five Super Bowls? You can't overpay for that,'' said Accorsi. "It's like overpaying for Joe DiMaggio. In retrospect, three ones and two twos would have been very fair. A bargain, really.''

    I think three first-round picks for the first selection in the 2012 draft is more than fair if the team that earns that right is in a dealing mood. One of those picks would have to be in the top 10 of the 2012 draft. "If he's as good as everyone says he is, absolutely it's a realistic price,'' Accorsi said.

    In 2004, Accorsi traded for Manning's rights with San Diego in a deal that essentially was two firsts, a third- and a fifth-, with one of the firsts being the fourth overall pick in that draft. (The picks were made, Manning by the Chargers and Philip Rivers by the Giants, and then swapped by the teams.)

    But that's not a bad template for a Luck trade. Let's say the Rams have the first pick in the draft next year, but because they've got Sam Bradford, don't feel a need to take a quarterback. The Dolphins, let's say, are picking fourth. The negotiations would have to start with two ones, a three and a five, but I think they'd have to be ratcheted up in value. Luck, in 2012, will likely be much more of a sure thing than Manning or Rivers were in 2004.

    But if I were the GM of any bad 2011 team, with any current or near-future quarterback need (and that includes Indianapolis, where the owner is already talking about a Peyton Manning-Luck tag-team for three or four years), I wouldn't take any offer for Luck. I'd sit there and pick him. When you don't have a quarterback, and you're in position to take the surest of things probably since Peyton Manning himself came out, you have to take Luck.

    One last point: Pete Thamel of The New York Times asked Luck the other day about the rise of "Suck for Luck'' sentiment around the league. In other words, root for your team to lose so you'll be in position to take him. (Judy Battista wrote smartly about it Sunday in the Times.) Luck has another year of eligibility left at Stanford, but those close to him, and most NFL people I speak to, are virtually certain he'll come out for the 2012 draft. "I am aware of it,'' Luck told Thamel, regarding the sentiment of fans who want their teams to lose to have a shot to draft him next April. "I think it's stupid -- simply put.'' It may be, but that's not going to stop fans in Miami and Seattle and other locales from rooting for their teams to lose.


    So you would probably end up trading that #1 pick for that teams top 10 pick, along with a second round pick and one or two later round draft picks. I would assume that those picks would all be in this years draft. Or at the very least, the second round draft pick would be this years.

    Then you'd have two more drafts with two other first round draft selections.


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