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Thread: Penn State accusations

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Joe Paterno knew that Jerry Sandusky was a child molester since 1999. Sandusky was fired that year for taking a shower with a little boy.

    If you knew one of your friends was a child molester, would you watch him walk around your football facilities with children for another 12 years?

    I doubt it.


    Read the Grand Jury report. Joe Pa told investigators that Sandusky was "fondling" or doing "something of a sexual nature" in 2002. So you fired the man for child abuse in 1999, you were told he was again in the shower with a little boy "fondling" him or subjecting him to "something of a sexual nature" and you don't tell anyone other than your Athletic Director?

    You feel comfortable enough to allow Sandusky with unlimited access to your facilities with children?

    Get real.

    If you know someone is preying on little kids, and you turn your back and ignore the situation, you are allowing it to happen.

    If it's not the law, then it needs to be changed. You should be required by law to report sexual assualts to the police, period. It's disgusting.

    Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary absolutely disgust me. They actively participated in the covering up of multiple children being molested and watched him parade around possible victims.

    They all share responsibility.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-11-2011 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #152
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Joe Paterno knew that Jerry Sandusky was a child molester since 1999. Sandusky was fired that year for taking a shower with a little boy.

    If you knew one of your friends was a child molester, would you watch him walk around your football facilities with children for another 12 years?

    I doubt it.


    Read the Grand Jury report. Joe Pa told investigators that Sandusky was "fondling" or doing "something of a sexual nature" in 2002. So you fired the man for child abuse in 1999, you were told he was again in the shower with a little boy "fondling" him or subjecting him to "something of a sexual nature" and you don't tell anyone other than your Athletic Director?

    You feel comfortable enough to allow Sandusky with unlimited access to your facilities with children?

    Get real.

    If you know someone is preying on little kids, and you turn your back and ignore the situation, you are allowing it to happen.

    If it's not the law, then it needs to be changed. You should be required by law to report sexual assualts to the police, period. It's disgusting.

    Joe Paterno and Mike McQueary absolutely disgust me. They actively participated in the covering up of multiple children being molested and watched him parade around possible victims.

    They all share responsibility.
    I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't think Paterno is "on par" with Sandusky, who, you know, actually committed the crimes.

  3. #153

    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    You know the more I think about it even if Joe Pa took it to a higher authority(outside of campus police) I still think this was going to end up covered up because they're enslaved to the institution that is Penn State.

    You have to protect the reputation at all costs regardless of human decency. You may think I'm overreacting but doesn't it sound like this is why they tried to keep this hidden for so long? I mean what did the police do? Nothing the BOT? Nothing.. Nobody did anything except delay the inevitable.

    That and the men loving boys network is highly influential and powerful. Either he kept his mouth shut or he disappears like the DA from this case did.

    Not to absolve Joe Pa because that's impossible here but I think this is actually bigger than him and the President of Penn State at this point.

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    If you know someone is preying on children, and you do nothing to stop them, you are responsible for those victims. Your inaction lead to the terrorizing of more victims. You had the power to prevent them from being molested, and you refused to do anything.

    You allowed it to happen. (Collective you, of course)

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  6. #155
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    We have a fundamental difference of opinion. That is all.

  7. #156
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    And now one of the mothers of a victim, victim #1 in the Grand Jury report, say's that Sandusky was taking her son out of school without her knowledge or consent.


    The woman, who was not identified, said: "I'm infuriated. ... Even if [Penn State] had the slightest inclination that anything inappropriate was going on it should have been reported, or at least brought to my attention. I didn't even know he was leaving the school with my child, taking him out of classes. They never told me that."



  8. #157
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    See, I can't agree with this line of thinking. A guy who had second hand knowledge of alleged misconduct, who reported it to his superiors, should be on par with the guy that did the actual act? Can't buy into that. You are really twisting this situation into your own narrative at this point.
    No he shouldn't be on par with Sandusky but Paterno and any other administrator who repeatedly saw Sandusky with young boys after the first incident turned a blind eye because of the damage it would do to the PROGRAM. They knew what was going on. They are partially responsible for every other victim after that and there has to a price to pay for such blatant disregard of young victims. And this went on for years and years. It truly is sickening.
    Last edited by presto123; 11-11-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by presto123 View Post
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    No he shouldn't be on par with Sandusky but Paterno and any other administrator who repeatedly saw Sandusky with young boys after the first incident turned a blind eye because of the damage it would do to the PROGRAM. They knew what was going on. They are partially responsible for every other victim after that and there has to a price to pay for such blatant disregard of young victims. And this went on for years and years. It truly is sickening.
    I know this. Haven't argued otherwise. I just don't think he's on par with Sandusky. The rest, I absolutely agree with.

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  11. #159
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    I don't think Paterno's on par with Sandusky, however I guess there are just different levels of scum. Compliant scum and active scum.

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Thought I'd share this. Very good article, but it sounds like to me a man that understands what is happening, but he's just not ready to accept the god-awful role Paterno played during the ordeal. Like knowing your dad just died, but not really accepting it fully.

    But still a very good article and worth the time to read, IMHO.

    The End of Paterno



    Let me start with this: I am writing a book about Joe Paterno. I am getting paid a sizable amount of money to do so, some of which I plan to donate to the charity of Joe’s choice, some of which I plan to keep. I have been working on this book, on and off, speed bumps and traffic jams, for a couple of years now. I moved away from my family, to State College, for the football season. I had many hard feelings about that. But I believed — as my wife believed — that it was the right thing to do. I came here to write about one of the giants of sports.
    And my wife and I both felt that the only way to tell the story, for better and worse, was to be around it every day.

    The last week has torn me up emotionally. This doesn’t matter, of course. All
    that matters are the victims of the horrible crimes allegedly committed by former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky. I cannot say that enough times.

    Sometimes, I feel like the last week or so there has been a desperate race among commentators and others to prove that they are MORE against child molesting than anyone else. That makes me sick. We’re all sickened. We’re all heartbroken. We’re all beyond angry, in a place of rage where nothing seems real. The other day, I called it “howling.” I meant that in the purest sense of the word — crying in pain.


    So, two points to get out of the way:

    1. I think Joe Paterno had the responsibility as a leader and a man to stop the horrific rapes allegedly committed by Jerry Sandusky, and I believe he will have regrets about this for the rest of his life.

    2. Because of this, Joe Paterno could no longer coach at Penn State University.
    Beyond these two points, though, I said I wasn’t going to write about this because I feel like there’s still a lot of darkness around. I don’t know what Joe Paterno knew. I don’t know how he handled it. I don’t know if he followed up. I don’t know anything about Paterno’s role in this except for what little was said about that in the horrifying and stomach-turning grand jury findings. People have jumped to many conclusions about Paterno’s role and his negligence, and they might be right. I’ll say it again: They might be right. But they might be wrong, too. And I’m writing a book about the man. I can’t live in that world of maybes.

    It hasn’t been easy to stay silent — nor is it my personality. As anyone who knows me will tell you, I will write 5,000 words about an infomercial I don’t like. But I thought it was important that I stay out of the middle of this, observe the scene, and I still think that’s important.

    But — well, I’ve already said that my emotions don’t matter here, that they are nothing like what the victims went through, but for the purposes of this essay I’ll tell you them anyway: I’ve been wrecked the last week. Writing a book comes from the soul. It consumes you — mentally, emotionally, spiritually, all of it. I have thought about Joe Paterno, his strengths, his flaws, his triumphs, his failures, his core, pretty much nonstop for months now. I have talked to hundreds of people about him in all walks of life. I have read 25 or 30 books about him, countless articles. I’m not saying I know Joe Paterno. I’m saying I know a whole lot about him.

    And what I know is complicated. But, beyond complications — and I really believe this with all my heart — there’s this, and this is exclusively my opinion: Joe Paterno has lived a profoundly decent life.

    Nobody has really wanted to say this lately, and I grasp that. The last week has obviously shed a new light on him and his program — a horrible new light — and if you have any questions about how I feel about all that, please scroll back up to my two points at the top.

    But I have seen some things in the last few days that have felt rotten, utterly wrong — a piling on that goes even beyond excessive, a dancing on the grave that makes me ill. Joe Paterno has lived a whole life. He has improved the lives of countless people. I know — I’ve talked to hundreds of them. Almost every day I walk by the library that he and his wife, Sue, built. I walk by the religious center that tries to bring people together, and his name is on the list of major donors. I hear the stories, the countless stories, of the kindnesses that came naturally to him, of the way he stuck with people in their worst moments, of the belief he had that everybody could do a little bit better — as a football player, as a student, as a human being. I’m not going to tell you these stories now, because you can’t hear them. Nobody can hear them in the howling.

    But I will say that I am sickened, absolutely sickened, that some of those people whose lives were fundamentally inspired and galvanized by Joe Paterno have not stepped forward to stand up for him this week, have stood back and allowed him to be painted as an inhuman monster who was only interested in his legacy, even at the cost of the most heinous crimes against children imaginable.

    Shame on them.

    And why? I’ll tell you my opinion: Because they were afraid. And I understand that. A kind word for Joe Paterno in this storm is taken by many as a pro vote for a child molester. A quick, “Wait a minute, Joe Paterno is a good man. Let’s see what happened here” is translated as an attempt to minimize the horror of what Jerry Sandusky is charged with doing. It takes courage to stand behind someone you believe in when it’s this bad outside. It takes courage to stand up for a man in peril, even if he stood up for you.

    And that’s shameful. I have not wanted to speak because it’s not my place to speak. I’m Joe Paterno’s biographer. I’m here to write about the man. I’m not here to write a fairy tale, and I’m not here to write a hit job, and I hope to be nowhere near either extreme. I’m here to write a whole story. I’ve had people ask me: “Will you include all this in the book?” Well, OF COURSE I will — this is the tragic ending of a legendary career. I’m going to wait for evidence, and if it turns out that Joe Paterno knowingly covered this up, then I will write that with all the power and fury I have in me.

    I will wait, though. I will have to wait.

    But then, yeah, I opened my big mouth. On Thursday morning, I went to speak at the “Paterno and the Media” class on the Penn State campus — I have spoken at the class the last two or three years. This was obviously one day after Paterno had been fired, and the campus had been turned inside out. I woke up wondering if I really should go. But I decided I had to go.

    And when I was asked questions, I had to say how I felt. It spilled out of me. I suppose it caused a bit of a Twitter uproar — I say “I suppose,” because for the first time in memory I am not checking Twitter, and I think I’ll stay away for a while — but what I remember saying is:

    1. Joe Paterno is responsible for what happens on his watch. Period.

    2. People are making assumptions about what Joe did or didn’t know, what Joe did or didn’t do, and I can’t tell you that those assumptions are wrong. But I can tell you that they are assumptions based on one side of the story.

    3. We are in a top-you world where everyone is not only trying to report something faster but is also trying to report something ANGRIER. One guy wants Joe Paterno to resign, the next wants him to be fired, the next wants him to be fired this minute, the next wants him to be fired and arrested, the next wants him to be fired, arrested and jailed, on and on, until we’ve lost sight of who actually committed the crimes here.

    4. I think the University could not possibly have handled this worse. It was disgusting and disgraceful, the method in which they fired Joe Paterno after 60 years of service, and yes, I do think Paterno was a scapegoat. Of course he was. I’ve already said that he had to be let go. But to let him dangle out there, take up all the headlines, face the bulk of the media pressure, absolutely, that’s the very definition of scapegoat. Three people were indicted and arrested. A fourth, I hear, will be indicted soon. Joe Paterno is not one of the four.

    5. It is still unclear what Paterno did in this case. It will remain unclear for a while. You might be one of the hundreds and hundreds of people I’ve heard from who know EXACTLY what Paterno did. He HAD to know this. He DEFINITELY knew that. He COULD have done something. I respect that. Joe Paterno’s a public figure. You have every right to believe what you want to believe and be absolutely certain about it. But since we have not heard from Joe, not heard from former athletic director Tim Curley, not heard from GA/assistant coach Mike McQueary, not heard from anyone who was in the room, I’ll repeat: It’s unclear. A determined grand jury did not charge Joe Paterno with any crime. A motivated reporting barrage, so far, anyway, has not uncovered a single thing that can tell us definitively what Joe Paterno knew.

    You can say that he knew enough to stop this, and I’d say you were right. I have tried so hard to make it clear that I am not defending Joe Paterno’s actions or inactions, but I know that won’t be enough. You may be writing an email right now telling me how terrible child molestation is, how awful a person Joe Paterno is, how awful a person I am for wanting to wait and see. I understand. This case hits emotions that are unstoppable.

    But I will say this: Paterno has paid a price here. His job is gone. His life’s work has been soiled. His reputation is in tatters. Maybe that should be the price. Maybe there should be more of a price. You don’t have to type: “Well, his price is nothing like the price of those victims…” I already know that.

    But I think the way Joe Paterno has lived his life has earned him something more than instant fury, more than immediate assumptions of the worst, more than the happy cheers of critics who have always believed that there was something phony about the man and his ideals. He deserves what I would hope we all deserve — for the truth to come out, or, anyway, the closest thing to truth we can find.

    I don’t think Joe Paterno has gotten that. And I think that’s sad.
    And with that, I’m going back underground to wrestle with my book and doubts and emotions and everything that goes with that.
    http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/11/1...nd-of-paterno/

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    I'm no legal scholar. Is Btown still around?

    Could Paterno or any other be charge with being an accessory to these Sandusky charges? They knew of the crime being committed and failed to report it to authorities. In a sense they also encouraged it by allowing access to facilities, etc. I know in some jurisdictions, criminal facilitation can be considered.

    Is this possible?
    Last edited by Stryder; 11-11-2011 at 06:49 PM.

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    I'm no legal scholar. Is Btown still around?

    Could Paterno or any other be charge with being an accessory to these Sandusky charges? They knew of the crime being committed and failed to report it to authorities. In a sense they also encouraged it by allowing access to facilities, etc. I know in some jurisdictions, criminal facilitation can be considered.

    Is this possible?
    I don't know that he can be charged as an accessory. It is illegal to not report child abuse in Indiana. I don't know what the law in Pennsylvania though. From the way it sounds Pennsylvania doesn't have such a law.

    http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/law-say...use%2C-neglect

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.
    A pity he didn't do it sooner

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.
    Didn't realize he was a ginger. That explains a lot.

  19. #166

    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    McQueary's on PAID leave, he didn't quit. At this point the only thing I can think of is he's cooperating in some kind of investigation or something.

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    Default

    He told his football tram he quit.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

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  22. #168
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Jax View Post
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    Well I just don't like how the media there is handling things, after the board decided to fire Joe Pa, and the president, the first question asked (by multiple people at once) is: Who's coaching the football game on saturday? That's what disturbes me about the media. There should be more said about the victims, what they've had to deal with and not about a stupid football game.
    This does kind of irk me. Whenever I catch ESPN it seems like it's crimping their style to have to think about something other than sports. Considering that these games are played by men of the correct age range to have potentionally been a victim of the abuse, it just seems really messed up.

    Seeing Millen's fury toward the end of the reaction-bit he gave was one of the few things that made me feel not totally alienated by the (tv) coverage of this.
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    I don't think Paterno's on par with Sandusky, however I guess there are just different levels of scum. Compliant scum and active scum.

    Does it make sense that I agree with both this and since?


    Ultimately I think it's just as dishonorable and immoral to be the primary actor in a heinous crime as it is to be the guy(s) chilling in the background financing it, or shielding it from the public/police, or what have you. And it's not like Since is coming out of nowhere with his reasoning: whether it's the more recent parables you always hear about the "good Germans" or Thoreau writing about the relation of a just man to unjust institutions in "Civil Disobedience," you can trace a long line of moral thought that holds no punches when it comes to the "background actors," if that makes sense.

    And yet it would seem to take a unique level of clinical perversity (or even psychopathy? general evilness?) to actually be the person shoving his penis into a 10-y/o boy. Rather than just being the dude at a desk who's too scared of potential institutional backlash to do anything about it. Both are immense failings, but imo the latter is more ordinary, more boringly human.

    I guess if we're talking about the net destruction done to young lives and who should be held accountable, I have to side with Since, since it seems like the most comprehensive and just line of reasoning. Anything other seems like shortchanging the victims. Yet if we're talking about clinical makeup and how creepy/evil/sociopathic any of the given actors may be, I'm going to agree with those who say there's something exceptional about Sandusky.
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  25. #170
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    I don't think I really disagree with Since I wouldn't be upset if I found out Paterno was going to jail.

    What's that old quote

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  27. #171
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    McQueary is gone. He saw the writing on the wall and fired himself.
    I heard legally he cannot be fired due to whisteblowing laws.

    Some disturbing stories coming out this morning. I will post them here in a minute

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Take a wild guess on who was still helping with recruiting last year.

    http://www.wyff4.com/news/29738465/d...oFYfCg.twitter

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    Anyone read this from espn? Sorry if already posted.


    No, but another former Nittany Lion said he hasn't forgotten Sandusky, even as the former assistant coach stands accused of having sex with young boys.

    Sam Stellatella, a three-position player in the 1950s, has donated money to Sandusky's defense and urged other former players to do the same.

    "I told him he's going to need a million dollars to defend himself," the 73-year-old Stellatella said. "He called me back and said, 'What am I going to do with this money?' I said, 'Use it for your lawyer because you're going to need it.' "

  30. #174
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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    nyone seen this yet?

    Sandusky may face child sex abuse charges in Texas

    SAN ANTONIO, Texas — Prosecutors in Texas have opened an investigation into the possibility of filing charges against former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, police have said.

    The move comes following the release of grand jury testimony indicating Sandusky may have sexually assaulted one of his young victims when the Penn State team was in San Antonio for the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

    "We are looking into the possibility that an offense may have happened in San Antonio," San Antonio Police Sergeant Chris Benavides said.

    Unsealed grand jury testimony in the Sandusky case in Pennsylvania indicates that a now 27-year-old man described in the transcript as "Victim Number Four" testified he was brought to San Antonio as part of the "Sandusky family party" to watch the Nittany Lions beat Texas A&M in the 1999 Alamo Bowl.

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    Default Re: Penn State accusations

    From another forum (http://www.extremeskins.com/showthre...-Thread/page67)

    I work with a retired cop.
    His explanation is this... in the past, when he was called to a "burglary" it was often reduced to "theft." And it wasn't his call. He would do what his superiors asked. When crime is low, you want statistics to reinforce that. And the greater area--town or city or county--want crime statistics to be low. It makes the area appear safe and most of the time they are safe. Then there are outlier stats that don't fit in with the usual stats. Efforts are made to reduce them.

    This is common nationwide. And it's not unusual at all. In my opinion, it is wrong, wrong, WRONG.

    It appears Curley may have wanted things to appear less severe b/c of the over-arching consequences of a larger crime. And for that--and many other retarded decisions--he should be JAILED for a very long time.

    There is no doubt in my mind that many involved in this scandal have a CYA file at home. (Cover Your *** file). And that file is probably loaded with proof of every single thing they were involved in, including memo's that proved they were trying to have the pedophilia investigated with no help form the higher ups. My coworker still has his CYA file to this day. There is no doubt in my mind that McQueary is still employed for 2 reasons... 1.) he has a CYA file and dares them to fire him... and 2.) I think he falls under the protection of Whistle-blower laws in PA.

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