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Thread: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

  1. #1
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning


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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    i agree 100% no one is above the team and you must do what is best for your organization

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    If Montana can be traded anyone can even Peyton.

    The ironic thing is the Colts would be doing him a favor.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    On paper, it seems like a really easy choice, and ultimately the right thing to do...but in practice, that would be an exceptionally tough decision to make for the organization.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    This is what should be done IF the Colts get the top draft pick and IF Luck comes out.

    Just easier said than done. As someone who is not just a Colt fan but someone who is from Indiana and appreciates Indiana I appreciate what Peyton Manning has done for the team, city of Indianapolis, and state of Indiana. I am normally against giving too much credit to any one individual but Peyton has done so much for the city and state. I can't help but feel awful if he is released/traded even if it is the right thing to do for the Colts.

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    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    You don't trade Peyton Manning. You keep him and play him, or you exercise the option in his contract and release him without further obligation.

    Peyton's contract has 54 million in the guaranteed slot. When you trade a player in the NFL, the guaranteed part of his contract stays with the team he signed with. I believe it's also applied to the next season's cap in it's entirety. That would be what? 40 million or so on the cap next year? Everyone seems to be ignoring this when debating about trading him.

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    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    You don't trade Peyton Manning. You keep him and play him, or you exercise the option in his contract and release him without further obligation.

    Peyton's contract has 54 million in the guaranteed slot. When you trade a player in the NFL, the guaranteed part of his contract stays with the team he signed with. I believe it's also applied to the next season's cap in it's entirety. That would be what? 40 million or so on the cap next year? Everyone seems to be ignoring this when debating about trading him.
    I can't imagine where you are understanding that correctly.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I can't imagine where you are understanding that correctly.
    I've taken jobs making NBA, and NFL video games. Part of what I did was understanding contract and cap issues to make sure they were correct. I'm not immaculate because it was many years ago and some have changed, but I'll find it and post.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    I've taken jobs making NBA, and NFL video games. Part of what I did was understanding contract and cap issues to make sure they were correct. I'm not immaculate because it was many years ago and some have changed, but I'll find it and post.
    I just can't imagine where if a player is traded that he still hits his former team's cap for a figure that size. I know the Jake Delhomme story where he was getting paid like $15 million by the Panthers to stink it up for the Browns last year, but I just find it hard to believe that it hits the cap like that. Of course, it's entirely possible I'm wrong and certainly you know more than I do on the subject.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I just can't imagine where if a player is traded that he still hits his former team's cap for a figure that size. I know the Jake Delhomme story where he was getting paid like $15 million by the Panthers to stink it up for the Browns last year, but I just find it hard to believe that it hits the cap like that. Of course, it's entirely possible I'm wrong and certainly you know more than I do on the subject.
    http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

    What happens if a player is traded or retires?


    Answer: We already know that if a player is waived on or before June 1, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Acceleration also occurs when a player is traded or waived and picked up by another team.
    Source 2

    http://www.howstuffworks.com/question644.htm

    There are drawbacks to signing bonuses for the owner, however. Because the bonus is guaranteed to the player, if the player is released, traded or waived, all of the bonus money that was being prorated throughout the length of the contract is accelerated to the present year.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    This issue is the same reason everyone was applauding the Patriots trades of Haynesworth and Ocho. They were 0 risk moves. If they released them in camp the Pats owed them NOTHING. All the guaranteed money stayed with the Redskins and Bengals.

    I tried to email Grady and Joe on 1070 and explain it to them, but I'm not sure if they ever read it on the air or believed me to be honest. I'm pretty bothered that people that cover the NFL can't get that right. I expect it from fans.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    This issue is the same reason everyone was applauding the Patriots trades of Haynesworth and Ocho. They were 0 risk moves. If they released them in camp the Pats owed them NOTHING. All the guaranteed money stayed with the Redskins and Bengals.

    I tried to email Grady and Joe on 1070 and explain it to them, but I'm not sure if they ever read it on the air or believed me to be honest. I'm pretty bothered that people that cover the NFL can't get that right. I expect it from fans.
    I don't know about everyone maybe the media who thinks the Pats can't do no wrong. I thought those were bad moves regardless.

    Neither has really paid off at this point.

  16. #13

    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    The numbers are off on the Manning deal. Here's how the contract looks:

    5 year/90 million, of which 20 million was a signing bonus.

    Salary breakdown per year (in millions):

    Base
    2011: 3.4
    2012: 7.4
    2013: 8.4
    2014: 9.4
    2015: 10.4
    Total: 39

    Add Manning's 20 million dollar signing bonus, and that puts him at 59 million.

    The big issue is that Peyton is due a 28 million roster bonus in March. There are other bonuses that factor into the contract later on that help it reach 90 million.

    Therefore, the Colts have a few options:

    Option #1: If the Colts keep Manning under the current deal, he will earn about 35 million for 2012 (roster bonus of 28 million + 7.4 million base salary). Keep in mind that roster and signing bonuses are prorated throughout the contract length, so it's not as though he has a 35 million dollar cap hit.

    Option #2: Cut, trade or let Manning retire before the roster bonus is due. In doing so, the Colts would have 16 million worth of "dead cap" on the books for 2012 as previously mentioned.

    Option #3: Cut Manning and restructure the contract. This happens all the time in football to make contracts more salary cap friendly.

    As Peyton mentioned last week, the deal is really a 1 year deal with a 4 year option. Peyton is making 23 million not to play this season and if the Colts deem that he is done or that he won't support a new QB, they may move in another direction.

    Ironically enough, if the Colts decided to cut or trade Manning and drafted Luck #1, he would count for about 5.5 million (based on a contract similar to Cam Newton's deal) against the cap for 2012. Therefore, the Colts could have:

    Andrew Luck cap hit: 5.5 million
    Manning dead cap space: 16 million
    Total: 21.5 million

    Manning 2012 cap hit (if we keep him and pay the roster bonus): 17 million
    Manning's cap hit in 2013 if cut: 33 million all due to dead cap space (12 million remaining on signing bonus and 21 million on roster bonus).

    I think that Manning may retire and clear the path for the Colts to draft Luck overall. We'd take a big cap hit in 2012 of dead cap space, but Luck would only count for about 5-6 million in 2013 and open up the opportunity to rebuild the team.

    I could also see the Colts looking to restructure deals with guys like Dallas Clark and Gary Brackett. I think the Colts may see someone like Wayne go elsewhere and will probably resign Mathis. But I think we'll see a different Colts team next season.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    If Manning's contract is a 1 year with a 4 year option, and we waive that 4 year option, I'm confused on how you take a cap hit on that at all. That's different than releasing a player under a current contract. We have the option to get out of it.

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Beingn new to the Colts board could you explain dead cap space please? I think I've got it but I wanna be sure.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    why is herm edwards not coaching?

  20. #17
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    Default Re: Herm Edwards: Draft Luck, trade Manning

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    why is herm edwards not coaching?
    Doubt he has had any head coaching offers and he'd probably rather do broadcasting than be a coordinator.

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