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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Stock market question

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  • Stock market question

    Hey gang. I've been underwhelmed by my IRA over the past six years, and I'm trying to parse how much of it is the overall market and how much is my particular investment manager.

    Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that I had $10,000 in the summer of 2005. How much would you expect that to be worth today?
    This space for rent.

  • #2
    Re: Stock market question

    I make a living from the stock market. I have more money now than when I started 10 years ago.

    The quick and dirty answer is, sorry, it depends. I can elaborate, but I'll have to think about it some.

    Here's a good test. SPY, the S&P ETF was @ 100 in 2005. It's now about 125. If you wanted to use that as your basis of comparison, then your $10k should be $12,500 now.

    My guess is, you've been putting money in all along, so the calculation would be more difficult.

    What is your IRA invested in, not specifically, but type of assets?
    Last edited by Knucklehead Warrior; 11-04-2011, 11:22 PM. Reason: more thoughts
    Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

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    • #3
      Re: Stock market question

      Nope, in 2005 I rolled a 401k over to a new IRA. It had 35k in it then, and it has 35k in it today.

      It's in a semi-aggressive growth fund with Lincoln Financial.
      This space for rent.

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      • #4
        Re: Stock market question

        By investment manager, do you mean you have an actual person you can call up and talk to that is recommending investment strategies?

        If so, then I'd say you've gotten hosed. No reason why your ROI should be at zero with an actual person watching over your money.

        I've recently starting pouring over my IRA's to see if there is a better way to combat the huge market swings that we have seen this year, and the impending bubble crashes that legislation has not actually addressed. I think I'm going to take one of my funds and move it into a dividend growth fund. Because while the market values of the indexes seem to swing wildly back and forth, these companies are making huge profits. Which means dividends will follow. The more shares you own the more dividend money you will get that will be re-invested in the fund, and of course the share price still goes up or down based on Market performance gains.

        I know alot of people say pick a fund and just forget about it and keep putting money in and the dollar cost average will put you ahead in the longer run, that is bad advice if you ask me. Alot of people just forgot about it and the market crashed in 2008, and everyone's 401K and IRA got cut in half.

        A few years ago when I first started one of my Roth IRA's, I put some of my initial investment in Trowe Price New Era Fund, which focuses on Aggressive growth in the energy sector. I did not know much about investing, but I figure I'm young and I need an aggressive growth fund and all the oil companies were making record profits. So I thought what a good idea. Well in one years time the oil prices came back to earth and that one fund lost about 45% of its value. It really pissed me off, but taught me a valuable lesson, you have to pay attention to global and national trends when investing in mutual funds. When that New Era fund collapses like that again you better believe i'm going to move a huge chunk of money into and let it ride back up and then move my money out of it before the next oil price crash.

        About a month ago we had a huge crash in the Dow Jones over a 2 day period that basically wiped about 6 months worth of gains. Just last week there was a record one day gain, followed by an even bigger loss the next day due to worries over Greece.
        You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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        • #5
          Re: Stock market question

          Originally posted by Anthem View Post
          Nope, in 2005 I rolled a 401k over to a new IRA. It had 35k in it then, and it has 35k in it today.

          It's in a semi-aggressive growth fund with Lincoln Financial.
          I'm going to guess they charge you a nice fee for their "work"? That "fee" being a load (service fee) of anywhere from 5% to 7% of YOUR money, which you give them for the HONOR of having them invest YOUR money for you. Totally uncalled for.

          Contemplate no-load funds from T Rowe Price or Vanguard or Fidelity. There is absolutely no reason to pay a fee to any broker for investing your money. Just study the history of each fund the various companies offer, of the category in which you wish to invest. Look at the returns in good times AND bad times, and compare how those funds performed relative to the market. You'll find something you like. Just do your homework.
          Last edited by Tom White; 11-05-2011, 09:58 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Stock market question

            I don't like mutual funds (and ETFs) very much. They are still not "buy and forget" - you still need to know what's held by the fund, do the use any leverage, what rules in terms of holding size do they have, etc.

            And if you have several, then you need to check and see what they have in common to make sure you are not more exposed to any given company than you really want to be.

            I lost several years of accumulated savings (in my kids college funds no less) when a "safe, value based" mutual fund my broker had picked "went to zero" when the banks crashed. Seemed that "safe" to them meant "derivatives on mortgage backed securities".

            I've taken a lot more interest in investing over the past 2 years. Mainly, that means reading a lot, both on the internet and books.

            I would consider reading One Up On Wall Street : How To Use What You Already Know To Make Money In The Market, by Peter Lynch as a good starting point.

            http://www.amazon.com/One-Up-Wall-St...0499303&sr=1-1

            It's a little dated in terms of examples as it was written maybe 20 years ago, but the principles are very, very relevant still. And it's cheap and easy to read.

            As far as web sites, I'd recommend The Motley Fool - http://www.fool.com/

            There's a far bit of noise because of the large number of articles published daily, and their marketing materials can be unnecessarily over the the top, but the site is worth it. The How To Invest pages http://www.fool.com/how-to-invest/index.aspx are a great starting point. Their paid services are where I feel the real value is, though - I've tried a couple. Stock Adviser is good, even if you don't buy individual stocks, but for the analysis that goes behind their picks, the education part. If you really want to build a portfolio based on mutual funds and ETFs, their Rule Your Retirement is focused on that, and fairly inexpensive. You can try any of their services for 30 days and get a full refund.

            It's easy to get distracted by the "get rich quick in the stock market" stuff. Invest sensibly. It's not the lottery. True, lasting wealth is built over the long term. I wish I understood that when I was in my 20s, but I try to get a little smarter every day.

            Doug
            Last edited by Doug; 11-05-2011, 10:15 AM.
            You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
            All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

            - Jimmy Buffett

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            • #7
              Re: Stock market question

              Wowee!! You've gotten a TON of very good advice. I saw about 8-10 VERY good suggestions and pointers.

              Hopefully now you're reaching a point where you're asking yourself, "How hard could it be to just be responsible for this stuff myself?" That's when the knowledge transfer will take place. Remember that good decisions come from experience; experience comes from bad decisions. You have a lot of both to look forward to. Unfortunately it should take you one full investment cycle to start to feel comfortable with it, i.e. one bull and one bear.

              A good tip -- don't try to hammer the market when it's going up, just try not to get hammered when it's going down. My wife's IRA dipped only 5% from the top in 07 to the bottom in 09. I've never had a losing year. It CAN be done.

              The learning never ends, but the time spent doesn't have to be prohibitive. Start by subscribing to at least the Wall Street Journal. A subscription delivered to your door costs less than $200/yr and it will be the best investment you'll ever make.
              Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

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              • #8
                Re: Stock market question

                I started to get into penny stocks, but without advanced charts that you have to pay for, then it's very difficult to try and make money.

                My 401k has been underwhelming as well, so I'm trying to learn to play the stock market. It would be great if I had a friend in the financial industry that could take me under his wing. In the meantime, I'm just doing research right now.
                First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

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                • #9
                  Re: Stock market question

                  Anyone have experience with Scottrade? I've been thinking of rolling my 401K into a Self-directed IRA and sure don't wish to pay the commissions my broker used to charge (back when I was heavily into the market).
                  Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Stock market question

                    Originally posted by indygeezer View Post
                    Anyone have experience with Scottrade? I've been thinking of rolling my 401K into a Self-directed IRA and sure don't wish to pay the commissions my broker used to charge (back when I was heavily into the market).
                    I'm with e-trade.
                    First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Stock market question

                      I've been with Scottrade, Schwab, and Fidelity for about ten years. I use Scott for the real time watchlists, but not so much for their research. Schwab's research is top-notch; Fidelity's pretty good. That's the fundamental side.

                      For the technicals -- Stockcharts.com, Telechart Platinum, DailyGraphsOnline (now Marketsmith). These are tools and you have to have some. Don't be cheap about your tools. These total about $2500/yr. Some other highly rated tools would be Tradestation and VectorVest.

                      I also subscribe to Investors Business Daily and WSJ. I go to the library to read Barron's.

                      My favorite authors to help anyone get started would be Stan Weinstein, Van Tharp, John Murphy, Alexander Elder, William O'Neill.

                      While tempting to follow some guru's advice, I'd say your best bet is to depend on you -- Think for Yourself!
                      Most professional advisors match the market less their expenses. You can do a lot better than that.

                      If you were just getting started depending on yourself, I'd check out and read about 50 library books, subscribe to one daily financial newspaper, get the free version of Stockcharts.com and open a Schwab account for the research.

                      With experience you'll develop some fundamental beliefs about the market. Here are some of mine:
                      People buy earnings.
                      The market usually overreacts.
                      Diversify volatility, most people diversify profits.
                      It's all about managing risk.
                      Nobody knows your investing needs better than you do.
                      Don't try to beat the market, try not to let the market beat you.
                      Run from adversity.
                      When others are fearful, be greedy. When others are greedy, be fearful.
                      Get rich slowly.
                      yadda, yadda, yadda
                      Don't thank me, I'll kill ya.

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