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Thread: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/...enhancing-drug


    This is a shame. Baseball just can't ever seem to completely shake the PED issue. We just had the greatest final day ever of the regular season which was then followed by one of the most enjoyable World Series ever. Yet now the sport has to deal with the fact that it just gave the MVP to a guy who failed a test during the season. Sad.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Baseball has known about this for a while.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    The problem is clearly bad enough that baseball either needs to start handing out lifetime bans and even considering forfeiting games that failed test players played in... maybe even fining their teams and of course serious fines on the players. Otherwise, clearly players consider the reward worth the risk.

    ...Or else go the other way and just allow certain PEDs so that they can at least monitor it out in the open.
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    **** him im tiered of these *******s cheating. Maybe now Matt Kemp can get the MVP award he deserved it anyway.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/76...ame-suspension

    Sooooo....

    Braun won his appeal today, based on the grounds that the sample collector violated chain of custody on the sample. He took Braun's sample, then, instead of taking it to FedEx like is required, he took it to his own house and placed it in his refrigerator. Then took it to FedEx the next morning. The three vote panel apparently felt that the integrity of the sample could not be guaranteed in this situation, and voted to overturn his suspension.

    On one hand, I can see a lot of people saying he got off on a technicality. On the other hand, you can't guarantee that the sample wasn't tampered with under that circumstance, or that what got turned in was even the same sample. Where I work, if they even think that chain of custody might have been violated on a sample, new samples are taken, no questions asked.
    Last edited by travmil; 02-23-2012 at 07:43 PM.

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  7. #6

    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    I just can't get over the fact that some guy kept a bottle of Ryan Braun's pee in his freezer overnight.

    Still wish it would've been true that it was a false positive from herpes meds though.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    I agree, but procedures are there for a reason. The chain of custody that MLB agreed to with the MLBPA was violated. That makes the sample null and void. MLB can "vehemently disagree" all they like. The fact is that procedures were not followed. Braun and his lawyers didn't even have to argue that the test was wrong. They knew once the chain of custody procedure was not done according to the procedure lined out between MLB and the players, that it was never going to stand. MLB should have cut their losses on this a long time ago and issued a statement something like "In light of all eveidence, Braun has been cleared of any wrongdoing and is immediately re-instated". Even if they didn't believe it, that's better than what happened yesterday. MLB basically pulled a Jim Caldwell, throwing the red flag on an un-winnable challenge.

    And if I were the players I would be taking notice of this. Getting away with it this way is a one time thing. You can guarantee that procedures WILL be followed from now on.
    Last edited by travmil; 02-24-2012 at 07:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    How could you be dumb enough to take that sample home with you?

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    How could you be dumb enough to take that sample home with you?
    He probably thought it would be ok because the samples are sealed with numbered tamper evident seals. The number is recorded on the paperwork. If the seal is cut, or removed that's obvious, and if it's replaced with a different seal the number won't match the paperwork. I guess he thought if everything matched he'd be ok.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Braun offered to take a DNA test to prove if the urine was his. MLB said no.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Braun offered to take a DNA test to prove if the urine was his. MLB said no.
    If he truly offered that, they should have taken him up on it. What did they have to lose? Did they really think they were going to win this appeal in light of what happened? If the urine comes back as his, he's done for 50 games, and if it doesn't, their MVP really was clean and the flaw is elsewhere.

    The only reason not to take him up on that is that if it comes back as not his urine, it throws every test ever taken by any athlete in any sport into question, or at least the ones conducted by that lab. But what does MLB care about that? They wish the whole steroids thing would go away anyway.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    Where I work, if they even think that chain of custody might have been violated on a sample, new samples are taken, no questions asked.
    Isn't this basically what happened since he took another test as soon as they told him there was a problem with the first one?
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    Isn't this basically what happened since he took another test as soon as they told him there was a problem with the first one?
    Yes, but the originals, in our case at least, would be thrown away without being tested. Why bother testing them? If the chain of custody has been violated, any results should be considered non-viable, no matter what really happened to the sample. It could be completely intact, not tampered with, and stored in the right conditions, but if you can't verify chain of custody, it's worthless. Also, I'm not sure if the second sample was asked for because of the chain of custody issue, or because of the positive result. It would make sense that a positive result automatically triggers a second test per MLB policy. And, if you read around, Braun passed the tests performed on the second sample.
    Last edited by travmil; 02-24-2012 at 01:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    I still consider him a cheat and im sure I am not the only one. Silly how they let him off on a technicality. I just want the Sosa's the Arods the manny's and all the others to go away and clean the game up. Im sure many more are gonna get caught this season with the new HGH testing.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Chain of custody was technically never broken. The specimen was not handled in accordance to the testing protocols. There is a large difference.


    Travmil, you work in this industry?

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Urine is not a good matrix for DNA testing.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Steroids make baseball better, they should just allow it.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    Chain of custody was technically never broken. The specimen was not handled in accordance to the testing protocols. There is a large difference.


    Travmil, you work in this industry?
    I work in the pharmaceutical industry. Specifically, I work in an area that pulls samples from all incoming raw materials, then ships those samples to various labs throughout the company. This includes liquids, solids, temperature sensitive, and dangerous samples. Chain of custody WAS broken. It's a temperature sensitive sample. All you have is this guy's word that he put it in his fridge. He could have left it in his car and lied about it being in the fridge. He probably didn't, but there's no way to know for sure, because procedure wasn't followed. So, for our purposes speaking from experience in our industry, we would consider that chain of custody to be broken.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Stryder View Post
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    Urine is not a good matrix for DNA testing.
    I have no idea, just saying what the ESPN lawyer reported in an interview.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Perhaps I am just ignorant on the issue (I am not a huge baseball fan) but can someone please help me understand this.

    A player tested positive with a rate that was huge (I heard on the radio 50X the normal limit, then I heard 2X. Regardless, it was positive)

    The MLB and PA has an agreement where the sample goes right out to a FEDEX facility and it shipped to the lab. If the facility is closed, you can store it overnight and then mail it the next business day.

    Am I correct in my understanding that the player got off soly because the test collector simply made a mistake and thought the FEDEX location was closed when in fact it was open.

    Lastly, why is there not a better way to make sure samples are not tampered with. Why not have a screw tab label or tab or something that if broken......invalidates the whole process.

    Lastly, why not have the player re-test as soon as the sample was labeled as invalid.

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by vapacersfan View Post
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    Am I correct in my understanding that the player got off soly because the test collector simply made a mistake and thought the FEDEX location was closed when in fact it was open.

    Lastly, why is there not a better way to make sure samples are not tampered with. Why not have a screw tab label or tab or something that if broken......invalidates the whole process.

    Lastly, why not have the player re-test as soon as the sample was labeled as invalid.
    It should be noted, that this wasn't simply overnight. It was over the entire weekend. That sample was taken Friday evening and then taken to FedEx Monday morning. And yes, according to the MLB policy, you can store the sample until it's submitted, in a suitable storage facility. But the guy's refrigerator in his house is anything but suitable. In our labs we have refrigeration units set with a specific range, usually 2-8 degrees celsius. Those units are connected to a monitoring system that alarms if the temperature goes out of that range. They have circle charts attached to show how long it was out of range, and there is an inventory management system that uses RF scanners and barcodes to show what samples were in that refrigeration unit at the time. It's a pretty sophisticated and robust system designed specifically to answer the types of questions that are being asked. The entire point of MLB losing the appeal is that their process could not guarantee the storage conditions of the sample once the procedure they agreed to was not followed. Like I said above, the guy says it was in his fridge and it probably was. But he could also be lying and the guy could have left it in his trunk. His kids could have taken it out of the fridge, his dog batted it around the house for a while. Not likely I know, but go ahead and guarantee me that sample was stored properly for the entire time. You can't.

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    If the seal was tamper proof and clearly not broken is there any rationale, given the broken chain of custody, that would explain a false positive? IE... what if it was stored in his trunk overnight, would that have mattered? Would wild temperature fluctuations cause something to change and trigger a false positive?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If the seal was tamper proof and clearly not broken is there any rationale, given the broken chain of custody, that would explain a false positive? IE... what if it was stored in his trunk overnight, would that have mattered? Would wild temperature fluctuations cause something to change and trigger a false positive?
    On the other hand, if I read correctly that the second sample taken immediately after was negative, how can that be explained? Can that much testosterone leave your system that fast? Does anyone know?

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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    The second test was given after he was notified of the first positive test.

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    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ryan Braun tests positive for PED

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    The second test was given after he was notified of the first positive test.
    So what was that...A few days after the first one? Can he get that much out of his system in that time? What do you do, watch a Sex and the City Marathon?

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