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Thread: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

  1. #126
    DIET COKE! Trader Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't think Dungy pushed it down their throats or anything. He had a great relationship with management, ownership, the fans, the community, etc. If he made a recommendation, it was going to get heavy consideration. I think, to management, promoting Caldwell was a no brainer all the way around.
    No brainer is definitely an accurate way to describe it....

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  3. #127
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Bob Sanders? The same guy who barely can make it an entire season. Except for this year Manning was the iron man and the one constant of this team for the past 13 years. Yes he was great but like I said barely saw the field.

    However unlike Manning we were able to win games without Bob because this team could adjust without him. We've also won games without all those other guys you mentioned since Manning was drafted as great as they were they don't have the pulse of this team like Peyton does.

    And that's my point this team made the monumental mistake of building around Manning they lived and died with him and now this is the team we're left with.

    You never build around one player as great as he is.

    If this team was a real SB contender they would've at least won 1 game by now (and a good coach to boot)
    Did you notice the other 4-5 players I mentioned?

    But yes, please keep ranting about Bob's injuries while ignoring the other examples, to show us that the Colts have only had one player to build around.

    You're really helping your case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    The Packers are showing how its done but the Colts will never get a clue at this point.
    And here's the second time you've compared the Colts to the Packers. Atleast this time you've recognized that it's not an insult to be called GB.

  4. #128

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I definitely have my concerns over recent drafting (though 2011 could pan out well) and the defensive philosophy at times, but I'm not going to act like the front office is completely worthless. They have brought a lot of talent here and we almost had 2 Super Bowls. It's fair to say that we've underachieved by just winning one, but the players bear a huge brunt of that responsibility.
    I think its still embarassing as trader joe said that you only have one superbowl with Manning. I won't go as far as to say they haven't done squat to field a good team but I won't put blinders on either and say they did enough to have multiple superbowl rings.

    Your only as good as your starting material and there is only a couple of people who control the talent level of this team. Increase the talent level overall and balance the team to be good in all phases of the game and we win more superbowl rings. Fact is we have stunk in 2 phases of the game and special teams for too long to think that this team wasn't grossly reliant on the passing game and Manning to win.

    Polain is at the center of that problem not Manning or the players. You can't ask average players to be something there not which is what I believe Polain and the coaching staff has. You can't ask undersized DE's to consistently stop the run or LB's who are undersized to consistently shed blocks from offensive guards.

    The cover two doesn't ask for undersized DE's or small LB's or one mediocre Nose Tackle. A better overall defense is a better overall team. A good running game means a better overall team. The FO has taken way to long to address these issues IMO.

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  6. #129
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    True or False, the Colts have had mutiple years with enough talent to win a SB?

  7. #130
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    True or False, the Colts have had mutiple years with enough talent to win a SB?
    True.

    My turn: True or false: The Patriots have had multiple years besides their SB years where they have had enough talent to win a SB?

    That's an easy statement to make, but the truth is, multiple teams every year have enough talent to win the SB. But only one team wins it each year. It's an incredibly difficult thing to accomplish. I'm extremely happy that we won one Super Bowl in this era. Some football fans wait their entire lives to see their team win it just once. I have seen my team win a Super Bowl, and I will never forget that. Would I have liked to see more? Sure, who wouldn't. Do I see the Manning era as a disappointment if he only wins one Super Bowl? Absolutely, positively not. To me (and this is just an opinion), the people complaining about only winning one Super Bowl are getting a tiny bit greedy.

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  9. #131
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    True.

    My turn: True or false: The Patriots have had multiple years besides their SB years where they have had enough talent to win a SB?

    That's an easy statement to make, but the truth is, multiple teams every year have enough talent to win the SB. But only one team wins it each year. It's an incredibly difficult thing to accomplish. I'm extremely happy that we won one Super Bowl in this era. Some football fans wait their entire lives to see their team win it just once. I have seen my team win a Super Bowl, and I will never forget that. Would I have liked to see more? Sure, who wouldn't. Do I see the Manning era as a disappointment if he only wins one Super Bowl? Absolutely, positively not. To me (and this is just an opinion), the people complaining about only winning one Super Bowl are getting a tiny bit greedy.
    I agree with all of this.

    I'm pointing out the fact all the *****ing and moaning about how the Colts don't have enough talent is a bold faced lie.

    Whether or not you disagree with the Cover 2 approach, you have to acknowledge that the Colts have had the pieces to win multiple SB in place.

    The Colts failure, or atleast a large portion (maybe not 50%), falls on the shoulders of the players.

  10. #132

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    It's not talent in the top 40 or so players on the roster that the Colts have been lacking, in my opinion, over the past few years. It's the depth and versatility of their bench, players 41-53 and actually beyond that, and further into the practice squad and rolodex guys. That's why injuries seem to be so devastating to the Colts (I'm not talking about the Manning injury here, obviously losing a starting QB is a major issue). The defensive scheme has never been one I have liked, and the coach doesn't seem to coach as far as I have noticed.

    Some of the depth issues are due to draft misses, for sure. If you whiff on some high draft picks and score on some low picks, those low guys who you likely saw as backups are starters, and their backups are waiver wire pickups. You can win with waiver wire pickups with coaching astute enough to capitalize on any unique abilities they may have (like say a Danny Woodhead, for example), but it requires... COACHING, again.

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  12. #133

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    It's not talent in the top 40 or so players on the roster that the Colts have been lacking, in my opinion, over the past few years. It's the depth and versatility of their bench, players 41-53 and actually beyond that, and further into the practice squad and rolodex guys. That's why injuries seem to be so devastating to the Colts (I'm not talking about the Manning injury here, obviously losing a starting QB is a major issue). The defensive scheme has never been one I have liked, and the coach doesn't seem to coach as far as I have noticed.

    Some of the depth issues are due to draft misses, for sure. If you whiff on some high draft picks and score on some low picks, those low guys who you likely saw as backups are starters, and their backups are waiver wire pickups. You can win with waiver wire pickups with coaching astute enough to capitalize on any unique abilities they may have (like say a Danny Woodhead, for example), but it requires... COACHING, again.
    I would have to disagree with whats bolded above. The Colts no doubt have the talent in some of the critical positions but in the top 40 they are sorely lacking.

    Outside of: QB, DE's, TE, and C, I don't think we have great talent. I would toss Wayne in the mix but I think he's better suited as a number 2 WR in which case he is one heck of a number 2.

    Outside of those postions which total 6 players I think the Colts are average and most importantly one dimensional. Don't get me wrong I would take our top 6 against everybody elses but from 7-40 I wouldn't for sure.

    Are injuries killing the Colts? I don't think so. We've replaced average talent with average talent in most cases but the big exception this year is that we lack the guy who covers up the talent drop in Manning.

    IF Chris Polain did the last draft then I feel pretty comfortable with the 2012 draft. I don't however trust the coaching or much else. The fact is the colts had time to prepare for the exits of Mudd, Tom Moore, and Dungy and they seem to have promoted from with in which seems to have been a mistake. The 2012 draft will surely be one of the most important drafts in Colts recent history but hopefully the coach is upgraded as well.

  13. #134
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Since 2005 they've had 14 different players go to the Pro Bowl, at 10 different positions.

    If you start at 2006, it drops to 13 different players at 10 different positions.

  14. #135

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Since 2005 they've had 14 different players go to the Pro Bowl, at 10 different positions.

    If you start at 2006, it drops to 13 different players at 10 different positions.
    Sorry if I don't hang my hat on the number of pro bowl players the Colts have and try to make any conclusion from it. The fact is a third of pro bowl players are getting in due to injuries of other players IMO. IF Troy could have made it then Bethea wouldn't have gone.

    There are a number of guys who go who are just good to average players like Garrad in 09. This happens every year. In 2010 32 players who were orginally selected to play in the probowl but didn't for some reason or another.

    So sorry if I can't look at pro bowl appearances as way to validate that the COlts have a lot talent. My eyes tell me that the Colts have 6 guys that are real pro bowl level talent and everyone else is either average or below average talent.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 10-11-2011 at 06:14 PM.

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  16. #136

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Did you notice the other 4-5 players I mentioned?

    But yes, please keep ranting about Bob's injuries while ignoring the other examples, to show us that the Colts have only had one player to build around.

    You're really helping your case.




    And here's the second time you've compared the Colts to the Packers. Atleast this time you've recognized that it's not an insult to be called GB.


    Funny I don't recall dissing GB other than I'm not a fan of the team. And I did refer to the other players but they don't hold nearly as much importance as Peyton and they never will of course you'll conveniently ignore that so who's in denial here.

  17. #137

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    There are certainly some legit gripes about the front office, whether it be the questionable drafting in recent years, the overall defensive philosophy, or spending 4 million to sign a washed up 38 year old QB when there was already a better QB on the roster in Painter. But let's not act like the Colts front office drafted Manning in 1998 and then decided to not even try for the next 13 years. They have brought in plenty of talent and did some very good things.

    Manning bears a decent amount of the blame for not having more than one ring. Look, I love the guy and he's my favorite athlete ever. I'll shed a tear when he has to hang it up for good. But he threw a pick six in a Super Bowl and was outplayed by Drew Brees. It pains me to say that, but it is what it is. He's the one who threw that ball into super tight coverage when Collie was wide open for a first down. You can't blame the front office for that. We were in a position to win a second Super Bowl and it was on our players to execute better than New Orleans. They didn't. From the Garcon drop to the botched onside kick recovery to the pick six....our players just didn't get it done. Of all the reasons for us not having that second ring, the players not getting the job done in that game is numero uno in importance
    Funny I don't say the players are faultless in any of this but really you're also forgetting they were outcoached here and that onside kick by the Saints changed the entire game. The same special teams that has been awful for over a decade.

    They played not to lose in the second half and well that's exactly what happened.

    I'm annoyed that in the end Manning will always be blamed for why this team underachieved and management and coaching don't get blamed at least by the national media.

  18. #138

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Had Dungy really earned the right to hand pick his replacement? I feel like you should win more than one super bowl if you want that honor


    Please I don't care who you are if you choose to quit you have no say in who replaces you unless you own the team.

    I mean if Tom Landry and Chuck Noll who have both won more Super Bowls and will be remembered far more fondly than Tony Dungy in the long run couldn't pick their replacement neither should he.
    Last edited by Basketball Fan; 10-11-2011 at 08:28 PM.

  19. #139
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    So sorry if I can't look at pro bowl appearances as way to validate that the COlts have a lot talent. My eyes tell me that the Colts have 6 guys that are real pro bowl level talent and everyone else is either average or below average talent.
    That's the problem, judging with just your eyes. Your brain gets in the way and you remember things how you want to remember them as opposed to how they actually are.


    So we've went from BBall Fan saying that the Colts have only built around one player (manning) to you saying they've only had 6.

    Clearly, you're both wrong. If you want to continue the conversation using your perception, instead of the reality of the situation, there isn't much else to do.

    But sorry for bringing easily found facts into the conversatoin. From here on out we can argue over who's memory is best.

  20. #140
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Funny I don't recall dissing GB other than I'm not a fan of the team. And I did refer to the other players but they don't hold nearly as much importance as Peyton and they never will of course you'll conveniently ignore that so who's in denial here.
    You don't even know what I said. You only referred to Bob, not Peyton.

    Yes, you are in denial. You've said Peyton has been the only good Colt, how many times now?

    13 other Pro Bowl players during Peyton's tenure, and he's the only good one. Amazing.

  21. #141
    Tom Lael
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    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    Man its a tough year to be a Colts/Pacers fan. That being said I could see us maybe beating Cincinnati tomorrow.

  22. #142

    Default Re: Chiefs @ Colts Game/Post-Game

    I dropped Garcon in my fantasy league and my team already sucks. ahgggg

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