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Thread: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

  1. #26

    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    passing to the post? Are you serious? If you cant pass to the post at the NBA level then you shouldn't be in the NBA. Any decent passer makes the extra pass I mean we could get a guy who does that and defends much cheaper (a guy like George Hill does that and plays defense how people can over look his defense is just crazy IMO defense wins ).
    Except in Today's NBA, because the assist gets so much credit that no, any decent passer does not make the extra pass.

    It's not about ability, it's about knowing when to make the right choices. Dun was good at that.

    That doesn't mean he was the most valuable, in fact, I think as a player, Dun proved his game isn't exactly playoff friendly.

    A player like Hill is much more valuable. That doesn't mean Dun's game didn't help with offensive flow. Him and Josh combined to make a really pretty offense.

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  3. #27
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The Pacers have several players who are either incapable, or simply don't understand how to make a proper post feed.
    Yes i am aware but it shouldn't be that way. That is a basic fundamental that you should learn at a young age. And at every level work on. Also they should work on things like that in training camp but guys like DC Paul and others struggled with that last year. It is just a lazy if you cant make a proper post feed and something coach Vogel should let be known that he wont tolerate laziness and lack of focus. Making the extra pass can be taught it is something a coach can get his player to do if he goes about it the right way. This right here is a reason the college game is a better brand of basketball they actually play with basic fundamentals.
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 10-10-2011 at 10:31 PM.

  4. #28
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Yes i am aware but it shouldn't be that way. That is a basic fundamental that you should learn at a young age. And at every level work on. Also they should work on things like that in training camp but guys like DC Paul and others struggled with that last year. It is just a lazy if you cant make a proper post feed and something coach Vogel should let be known that he wont tolerate laziness and lack of focus. Making the extra pass can be taught it is something a coach can get his player to do if he goes about it the right way. This right here is a reason the college game is a better brand of basketball they actually play with basic fundamentals.
    p4e,

    I think you are absolutely right. It SHOULD be something that is taught at the earliest stages of the game. But it isn't. It goes far beyond just college basketball. This is a huge problem at the AAU level. These kids run these teams and play however the hell they want to for half of every year. The AAU coaches tend to take the best athletes and not the best players. Ball dominance starts at an early age. Coaches don't value fundamentals in the game like they should. In Europe they have schools devoted to basketball. Almost like an Oak Hill Academy, but it starts MUCH earlier in age. They are taught fundamentals before they can even consider being ball dominant. We have MUCH more talented players than Europe overall, but we are teaching them a brand of basketball that doesn't optimize their abilities for a team game. Post passing is one of my biggest qualms with basketball. Dunleavy is a TERRIFIC post passer. I'm going to throw Brandon in there as well. He is very good at it. Both of those guys would actually look to feed the post whether it was inside or outside of the flow of the supposed offense. McRoberts is a good post passer, but I wish I could see him feeding the deep post from the high post more often, then cut. It is imperative to have a PG that can feed the post, and we have one now in Hill. I WISH Danny would get better at it. If there is one player that would benefit more from improving in this area, it is him.
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  5. #29
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Can someone explain to me how players INcorrectly feed the post?

  6. #30
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Can someone explain to me how players INcorrectly feed the post?

    The best the Pacers have had at feeding the post over the years: Dunleavy, McKey, Mark Jackson -

    There are a lot of factors: being taller than most of your defenders is a big key, being a good passer in general is a big key (that is the case with all three of the guys I mentioned), also makes a difference how a defense defends the post feeder, a shooter like Reggie should have an easier time feeding the post because defenders played up on him.

    INcorrectly feeding the post - telegraphing the pass, lobbing the pass too much, passing the ball either too early or too late is huge - timing is vital - the post player much have position. Also an important factor is the position of the post feeder, don't pass the ball until you have good position and that is dependent upon the defense

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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The best the Pacers have had at feeding the post over the years: Dunleavy, McKey, Mark Jackson -

    There are a lot of factors: being taller than most of your defenders is a big key, being a good passer in general is a big key (that is the case with all three of the guys I mentioned), also makes a difference how a defense defends the post feeder, a shooter like Reggie should have an easier time feeding the post because defenders played up on him.

    INcorrectly feeding the post - telegraphing the pass, lobbing the pass too much, passing the ball either too early or too late is huge - timing is vital - the post player much have position. Also an important factor is the position of the post feeder, don't pass the ball until you have good position and that is dependent upon the defense
    Just watch the end of the 3rd quarter until mid 4th quarter of 1994 ECF Game 5 Pacers vs Knicks (when Reggie had 25pts in 4th)

    Knicks made LaSalle Thompson look like a great defensive player. 3 times in a row Thompson stole the ball
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  8. #32
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    Just watch the end of the 3rd quarter until mid 4th quarter of 1994 ECF Game 5 Pacers vs Knicks (when Reggie had 25pts in 4th)

    Knicks made LaSalle Thompson look like a great defensive player. 3 times in a row Thompson stole the ball


    That was classic. Biggest problem there is the Knicks started chocking and standing around and when the offense isn't moving it is easier to defend the post. Plus Tank was a good post defender, had quick hands. The memories, but I'll, never understand why Kenny Williams took that shot he did in the fourth quarter - I think Reggie was hot

  9. #33

    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Can someone explain to me how players INcorrectly feed the post?
    It's more, simply not doing it (Collison had this problem, more than anyone) when the post player is posting up, that's more of the problem.

    But there's not passing the ball at the right time, or passing it in a bad place (although, that's not as big of a deal, so long as the player can catch it.)

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    It's more, simply not doing it (Collison had this problem, more than anyone) when the post player is posting up, that's more of the problem.

    But there's not passing the ball at the right time, or passing it in a bad place (although, that's not as big of a deal, so long as the player can catch it.)
    Or just not proper technique




    2:10 in this video is the proper way to feed the post via bounce pass. Dunleavy may be the only one I saw last year feed the post that way. But it is pretty simple you use your leg to make the pass easier and protect the ball. Good footwork in basketball makes so many things easy. Jordan had some of the best at the SG.

  11. #35
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    It's more, simply not doing it (Collison had this problem, more than anyone) when the post player is posting up, that's more of the problem.

    But there's not passing the ball at the right time, or passing it in a bad place (although, that's not as big of a deal, so long as the player can catch it.)
    Passing the ball in the right place is a huge deal. A lot of times, a well placed pass can actually lead a post player into the proper move. If a defender is overplaying one side, passing the ball away from the defender can start the process of the post player drop stepping, or crossing over and sealing off the defender for a clean shot.

    If Hibbert is posted up on the left block, and a defender is overplaying him on his left shoulder, it's imperative that he get the ball at his right hand. If the pass is in the right place, all he has to do is take one drop step with his right foot, and his man is sealed. The play is made, not because Hibbert had position, but because the pass put him into position by leading him to the baseline that is open. He takes one step and dunks the ball, with the defender helpless behind him.

    A lot of times that is not the easy pass. Too often guys just try to make the easy play, and just pass it right to the man. Instead, the wing player could easily take one hard dribble to the baseline side, and create the angle needed to make the proper pass to Hibbert's right hand. In order to be a good shot creator, you have to think more than one step ahead of time.

  12. #36

    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Passing the ball in the right place is a huge deal. A lot of times, a well placed pass can actually lead a post player into the proper move. If a defender is overplaying one side, passing the ball away from the defender can start the process of the post player drop stepping, or crossing over and sealing off the defender for a clean shot.

    If Hibbert is posted up on the left block, and a defender is overplaying him on his left shoulder, it's imperative that he get the ball at his right hand. If the pass is in the right place, all he has to do is take one drop step with his right foot, and his man is sealed. The play is made, not because Hibbert had position, but because the pass put him into position by leading him to the baseline that is open. He takes one step and dunks the ball, with the defender helpless behind him.

    A lot of times that is not the easy pass. Too often guys just try to make the easy play, and just pass it right to the man. Instead, the wing player could easily take one hard dribble to the baseline side, and create the angle needed to make the proper pass to Hibbert's right hand. In order to be a good shot creator, you have to think more than one step ahead of time.
    True, but I feel like, on this team (and a lot of teams) just getting players to pass the ball at the right time into the post is hard enough. And uh, the right place is a bit advanced.

    Also, I think that with a good post player, who has solid post moves, if the perimeter player simply gets the ball to him, even if it's not the correct place, the post player usually can score or get fouled, just not as easily.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Can someone explain to me how players INcorrectly feed the post?
    Wow, an actual basketball discussion that is both informative and entertaining! I've missed this a lot!

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