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Thread: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

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    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
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    Default What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    http://www.indycornrows.com/2011/10/...how-another-me

    The Pacers' splashiest, and only (thank you very much lockout) roster move this summer was adding George Hill in a draft night trade with the San Antonio Spurs. Acquiring an established, successful and still young player was a solid move; not to mention the P.R. bonus of his local roots. Hill stirred up even more excitement when he went ahead and scored 50 points in a Pro-Am game this summer. Not to be a buzzkill, but I mean to cut through some of the excitement and establish some realistic expectations for his performance. We'll approach what those might look like from a few different angles, but today we'll start with what role he might play in the Pacers' offense.

    Last season the Pacers' offense struggled, becoming progressively more stagnant as the year went on; reaching the point of being almost unwatchable in the playoffs against the Bulls. The roster was filled with some efficient complementary scorers and Danny Granger; a very potent scorer, but one who doesn't excel at creating his own opportunities. The Pacers had offensive weapons but lacked a dynamic individual creator, or a consistently effective manner of attack, to bind the whole system together. Although it hasn't been said explicitly by anyone in the organization, I get the feeling there is some hope that George Hill can provide some help in the dynamic individual creation department. Is he really up to this task?



    The first thing to look at is Creation Ratio, a statistic SBNation's own Tom Ziller introduced a few weeks ago. Creation Ratio compares the shots a player creates, either through an unassisted shot or an assist to a teammate, with the number of shots they take which are created for them. You can find a full description of the formula in Ziller's original piece. For example, Steve Nash has a very high Creation Ratio. Spot-up shooters like James Jones would have a very low one. A Creation Ratio of 1.0 would mean the portion of a player's offensive contributions which were created on their own is equal to the portion of their offense which was created for them by their teammates. Hill's Creation Ratio for last season was 1.48. To add a little more context, it ranked 35th of among the 40 point guards who played the most minutes last season. Of those 40 points guard, the one with the most similar Creation Ratio was Daniel Gibson, a guy not known for his ability to break down a defense. Now obviously, some of this is a reflection of the role Hill was asked to play in San Antonio. Roughly half of his minutes came alongside Tony Parker, making him a de-facto shooting guard. However, we'll return to that issue in a minute.

    I borrowed another idea from Ziller and put together a table showing each of the Pacers, and how their Creation Ratio was separated out. The blue bar represents the number of shots per 36 minutes each player used which were created by teammates. The yellow bar represents the number of shots per 36 minutes each player created for themselves or for their teammates.



    Four Pacers, A.J. Price, Darren Collison, Lance Stephenson, and T.J. Ford were responsible for most of the Pacers' shot creation on a per minute basis. Of those four, only Collison was among the top thirty players in the league in Ast%, or the percentage of teammates' baskets he assisted on. This means Price, Stephenson and Ford were creating a lot of shots for themselves. All three had a TS% below 46.0% which means the Pacers would probably have been a lot better offensively if that trio hadn't been quite so creative.

    So how would Hill's numbers have fit in? Below is the same graph as before, but with him included.



    If you couldn't find Hill, he's sandwiched between Dahntay Jones and Mike Dunleavy. That means his offensive contributions were not numerous, even on a per-minute basis. In terms of the division between creating offense and allowing it to be created for him, the Pacers that Hill most closely resembled were Roy Hibbert and Paul George, two players who are very much part of a supporting cast on offense. The good news is that even in that supporting role offensively, Hill was very effective. His TS% of 58.8% last season would have been third on the team behind Dunleavy and Josh McRoberts -



    The bad news is that in his time in San Antonio, Hill never showed that dynamic creation ability on a large scale. Again, the system and role he was asked to play certainly limited his opportunities to demonstrate that ability. Still, when those opportunities presented themselves, he didn't do much to stand out.

    According to Synergy Sports Technology, 13% of Hill's offensive possessions were used on isolations last season. He scored 0.95 points per possession, shooting 38.0% from the field, neither being a particularly impressive number. His saving grace was that he drew a shooting foul on 21.4% of those possessions. Hill used 24.9% of his possessions as the ball handler in a pick-and-roll. He scored 0.91 points per possession, shooting 41.9% from the field; again nothing impressive.

    The question will ultimately remain unanswered until, or if, the regular season begins, but there isn't a lot of evidence to suggest Hill is the cog to push the Pacers' offense to another level. Perhaps he simply hasn't had the chance. Perhaps it's outside his abilities. I want to be clear that either way, his addition to the roster is a huge positive. Even if he just gives the Pacers a rough approximation of what he provided the Spurs, it will be a huge upgrade to the backcourt depth. He may not start, but Hill will be one of the five best players on the team even if his production doesn't jump at all. We all may hope that he can be more than what he's shown so far in his career, but should be happy to have him even if he doesn't.
    Last edited by 90'sNBARocked; 10-07-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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    HE HIT! HE HIT! HE HIT! glazedham42's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Hill

    Edit: Nevermind
    Last edited by glazedham42; 10-07-2011 at 02:26 PM.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    I think Bird is building toward a defense first unit like the Piston's of 5 years ago.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Guess we will find out next year

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Hopefully he brings some WINS...
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    From what we read in several posts of articles from his San Antonio days he is either Brandon Rush with the ability to play the 1 on occasion, or he is a decent 2 who can score in bunches when the mood strikes him and play the 1 or 3 when necessary, but who doesn't like to call his own number and floats to the corner more than he should, much to the chagrin of Popovich when he played for the Spurs. But, he has not had three positive drug tests like Brandon, and Hill is from here.

    WAY oversimplified, and hopefully inaccurate with respect to the lack of agressiveness.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    This is easily one of the three or so best moves Bird has made in the past few years. We traded the 15th pick in a poor draft and a second rounder for a proven quality player at a position we need help with who was a key contributor for the team with the best record in the NBA. Plus, he's still pretty young himself. Excellent.

    George will help out quite a bit. This is one of the main reasons that the lockout has been so frustrating. I can't wait to see how George gels with this group.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 10-08-2011 at 01:16 PM.

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    Gotta Play Big BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Hill will make a big difference because he is very well rounded and fills a few of the many holes on the Pacers. He can defend, shoot, score off the dribble, handle the ball and he has leadership qualities. There is not another PG or quasi-PG on the team that fills all the gaps like that.

    Collison is smallish and cannot defend his own mother. He's also not a leader type.

    AJ Price...well...he might be better than how he played in the Chicago series...but I'm still waiting.

    Lance cannot defend the position adequately, especially with no athletic shot-blocker backing him up. Lance is also not that skilled handling the rock

    I am sure that George Hill will make us more competitive and no question he will make us more competitive with Chicago.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Lance is also not that skilled handling the rock
    What are you basing this on? Lance is a one on one beast who can definitely dribble the ball from point A to point B, lets just hope his team game matures.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    What are you basing this on? Lance is a one on one beast who can definitely dribble the ball from point A to point B, lets just hope his team game matures.
    True that but i don't think it was his team game that was the problem. He was a willing passer. It was his defense and maturity no?
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Does anyone think that having both Hill and Lance is a little redundant. I can't see a scenario where Lance would play over Hill. Hill should be getting 30+ mins a game.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    I prefer not to worry about redundancy when stephenson is a second round project. Hill will and should play over him unless steph shows something great, in which case it is a good problem to have. It isn't like we'd get value moving lance anyhow.

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    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Does anyone think that having both Hill and Lance is a little redundant. I can't see a scenario where Lance would play over Hill. Hill should be getting 30+ mins a game.
    On the long, long list of reasons why I don't think Lance should play (or be on the team for that matter) redundancy doesn't even come close to making the first page.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    The graphs in the original article (follow the link) were pretty interesting.

    For all the love Dunleavy gets about being able to make the offense run more smoothly, his creation numbers were terrible. Right there with James Posey.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The graphs in the original article (follow the link) were pretty interesting.

    For all the love Dunleavy gets about being able to make the offense run more smoothly, his creation numbers were terrible. Right there with James Posey.
    But his basketball IQ helps the team by osmosis. He also keeps moving constantly, even if it is just running in circles at the top of the key. He is just smart, I tell you. Smart.

    It will be interesting to see how his incredible IQ helps out another team this year.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The graphs in the original article (follow the link) were pretty interesting.

    For all the love Dunleavy gets about being able to make the offense run more smoothly, his creation numbers were terrible. Right there with James Posey.
    Mike Dunleavy Mr. overrated just because your a coaches son doesn't mean you play great team basketball and have an amazing IQ like everyone on here says. I am just glad I dont have to see him in BnG again.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    The graphs in the original article (follow the link) were pretty interesting.

    For all the love Dunleavy gets about being able to make the offense run more smoothly, his creation numbers were terrible. Right there with James Posey.
    Because it's based on assist percentage, which doesn't include things like passing to the person who is going to get the assist. Or passing into the post which pretty much rarely results in an assist. All things that help the offense go but don't turn up in the stat sheet.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    Because it's based on assist percentage, which doesn't include things like passing to the person who is going to get the assist. Or passing into the post which pretty much rarely results in an assist. All things that help the offense go but don't turn up in the stat sheet.

    passing to the post? Are you serious? If you cant pass to the post at the NBA level then you shouldn't be in the NBA. Any decent passer makes the extra pass I mean we could get a guy who does that and defends much cheaper (a guy like George Hill does that and plays defense how people can over look his defense is just crazy IMO defense wins ).

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    George is going to be a big aid to this team. We've lacked the defensive, crafty combo guard for a while.

    I cannot wait to see a guard lineup of George and Lance off the bench. Both guys are interchangable between PG/SG which will make it that much more fun to see.

    Both have bright futures with us.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scot Pollard View Post
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    George is going to be a big aid to this team. We've lacked the defensive, crafty combo guard for a while.
    Closest thing we've had to that in recent time was, uh, Marquis?

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    Closest thing we've had to that in recent time was, uh, Marquis?
    I'm way more excited about George Hill than him.

    No reason not to be. He's someone who can be a big piece for us.
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    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Had Marquis not of gotten injured we probably would have finished with +.500 record the year Danny got the Allstar nod.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Had Marquis not of gotten injured we probably would have finished with +.500 record the year Danny got the Allstar nod.
    He was one of my favorite Pacers. He was a nice guy and played defense. He actually wasn't that bad at the pg for not being a pg. But ya injurys held him back hopefully he can recover from the latest one.

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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    I liked Marquis too, but it was time to part ways with him when we did. We've improved that position nicely.

    Unfortunately for him, he had that major neck/head injury last year.

    I hope he's able to come back well.
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    Default Re: What Does George Hill Bring To The Pacers' Offense?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    passing to the post? Are you serious? If you cant pass to the post at the NBA level then you shouldn't be in the NBA. Any decent passer makes the extra pass I mean we could get a guy who does that and defends much cheaper (a guy like George Hill does that and plays defense how people can over look his defense is just crazy IMO defense wins ).
    The Pacers have several players who are either incapable, or simply don't understand how to make a proper post feed.

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