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  • I am more sympathetic to the owners

    88 51.46%
  • I am more sympathetic to the players

    18 10.53%
  • I just want the NBA back

    47 27.49%
  • A pox on both their houses!

    18 10.53%
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Thread: Lockout News and Discussions thread

  1. #1701
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    RE: Since86
    Right, I agree with the basic premise, but there is no doubt that the NBA does market, the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, and Knicks.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    "Bob Cousy of the Boston Celtics began to organize the union in 1954. At that time, the league had no health benefits, nor pension plan, nor minimum salary, and the average player's salary was $8,000 a season. Over the next decade, the salaries increased, and the owners finally recognized the NBPA in 1964, after players had threatened to walk out of the NBA All-Star Game."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...rs_Association
    D'oh totally forgot that story. Thanks

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  3. #1703
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    The owners want a player's union. If there was no union the bidding wars for superstars would be insane.
    But the union formed in response to salaries that were too low...

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  4. #1704
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    I also understand the NBPA has been more successful at this than the NFLPA. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    You're probably correct, but that's not a fair comparison at all. There are 15 players per NBA team, and even less back in the day. There are 53 NFL players per team, and probably less back in the day but they have to have atleast 22 to fill a roster.

    The NFL has to try to find a way to get benefits to a lot more players than the NBA. Also the NFL is a lot more violent sport with a lot more phsyical risk. Not to mention all the things they're finding out with concussions.

    There are significant differences in the two that cannot be ignored when you talk about which one is better.

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  6. #1705
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    I don't know but I feel like the union did it to themselves by protecting guys to get "all their money" when it was obvious that those guys only cared about the money and not the game(Eddy Curry,Tinsley,Marbury,etc,etc,etc)

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    RE: Since86
    Right, I agree with the basic premise, but there is no doubt that the NBA does market, the Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, and Knicks.
    Do they market them, or do they simply have a big enough fan base to survive when the times get rough?

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  9. #1707
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Do they market them, or do they simply have a big enough fan base to survive when the times get rough?
    That's certainly part of it.

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  10. #1708
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    You're probably correct, but that's not a fair comparison at all. There are 15 players per NBA team, and even less back in the day. There are 53 NFL players per team, and probably less back in the day but they have to have atleast 22 to fill a roster.

    The NFL has to try to find a way to get benefits to a lot more players than the NBA. Also the NFL is a lot more violent sport with a lot more phsyical risk. Not to mention all the things they're finding out with concussions.

    There are significant differences in the two that cannot be ignored when you talk about which one is better.
    The typical NFL player stands to be hurt more by each paycheck he misses than than the typical NBA player as well. They have less leverage in any negotiation due to this.

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  11. #1709

    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    But the union formed in response to salaries that were too low...
    This was before Curt Flood and free agency caused bidding wars between teams. In the 50s and 60s a team drafted a player and owned his rights forever.

    Now with free agency, teams need a union that will agree to a wage cap. If not, the salaries for LeBron, Kobe, Wade, etc would be astronomical.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    But perhaps those superstars do deserve the highest salaries right now. It is the Rashard Lewis's of the world that are allowed to run wild in the union structure.

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  13. #1711

    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    But perhaps those superstars do deserve the highest salaries right now. It is the Rashard Lewis's of the world that are allowed to run wild in the union structure.
    But if there was no cap to what owner's could spend, don't you think there would be more Rashard Lewis-type contracts, not less?

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Fisher staying in town to be ready to negotiate in good faith. I think Hunter is putting alot of eggs in that Labor complaint. Tons of stuff being done on both sides to put the right face on it.

    Each side just needs to have a press release everyday, available to negotiate in good faith....trying to negotiate in good faith.

    Funny from what I've read it doesn't matter AFTER the complaint was filed what is being done, just prior to July.

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  17. #1713
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    But if there was no cap to what owner's could spend, don't you think there would be more Rashard Lewis-type contracts, not less?
    The owners who did that would eventually run out of money and fail. Which is what should be allowed to happen.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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  18. #1714

    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The owners who did that would eventually run out of money and fail. Which is what should be allowed to happen.
    I understand this, but along with this would come a lot looser league structure. Teams would move and fold far more often and big market teams could easily outspend small markets.

    The league as it stands now definitely has more dysfunction, but it's collective, regimented dysfunction that allows for more continuity from year to year but less efficiency.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The owners who did that would eventually run out of money and fail. Which is what should be allowed to happen.
    After they ruined the rest of the leauge. Letting the Knicks, or the Lakers have an open checkbook to sign anyone and everyone they would have severe consequences for the rest of the league.

  20. #1716
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Another thing that occurred to me.

    Owners 49-51

    Players 51-53

    Players then went 50-52.5 yesterday, I mean THATS A COMPRIMISE!!!!

    The inbetween is obvious, players move ALMOST there and get nothing, but an end to the talks.

    Wow, drives me crazy!

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    The owners who did that would eventually run out of money and fail. Which is what should be allowed to happen.
    "La liga española" is one example of why you should have a cap, Real and Barcelona can spend whatever they want and nobody can even come close, in soccer the only way small teams survive this is by buying players on the cheap and selling them for a lot of money to the big teams, in basketball that would never happen, without a cap a team like the Pacers would get crushed.(sorry that I used a soccer example )

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    And yet Soccer in Spain thrives, even for the small teams.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Check it out: NBA is allowing their arenas to schedule concerts on game nights..... In December.

    http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssp...48484/32843280

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    And I don't think the amnesty is for owners to spend more money, it's to get teams away from the harsher luxury tax and what will probably be a lower cap.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    And yet Soccer in Spain thrives, even for the small teams.
    That's because they love the game of soccer.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    That's because they love the game of soccer.
    We're coming to an interesting break through here...

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  28. #1723
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    We're coming to an interesting break through here...
    I'm not sure if this is what you're getting at necessarily, but essentially NBA Basketball is a niche sport in today's America. Neither the owners nor the players realize it though.

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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I'm not sure if this is what you're getting at necessarily, but essentially NBA Basketball is a niche sport in today's America. Neither the owners nor the players realize it though.
    Yep!

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  30. #1725
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    Default Re: Lockout News and Discussions thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    I'm not sure if this is what you're getting at necessarily, but essentially NBA Basketball is a niche sport in today's America. Neither the owners nor the players realize it though.
    I'm not sure but I think he is trying to tell me that people in indy love basketball and because of that they are going to support the Pacers not matter what

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