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Thread: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

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    Default Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...sectionstories

    Right now, Indianapolis Colts defensive tackle Eric Foster isn't giving a moment's thought to the plight of NBA owners or NBA players. He has other worries, the result of an injury that left his shin pointing north and his foot gruesomely pointing to the southwest.

    Come Wednesday morning, though, I found myself thinking about Foster, an NFL player, and the continuing lockout of NBA players.

    While Foster has to worry about his career, whether he's going to come back next year or ever, an NBA player in his spot would be without concern. If Foster were an NBA player with a multiyear deal -- as most players are -- he would be set to make money for years to come.

    In the NFL, where careers are extinguished in the blink of an eye, contracts are not guaranteed beyond the signing bonus. In the NBA, where injuries are far less prevalent, contracts are fully guaranteed, to the point where the Indiana Pacers are only now getting out from under the millions they had to pay Jamaal Tinsley.

    The point being this:

    The players' union has to stop fighting over 2 percent or 3 percent of the basketball-related income and get back on the basketball court.

    I realize this is a lockout and not a strike, that this whole thing has been planned and perpetuated by owners who too often need to be saved from themselves. But the NBA business model is broken. Part of that is the fault of owners who need to increase the revenue sharing numbers and help out the likes of the Pacers and Sacramento Kings. But part of it is, times have changed, the economy has gone in the tank, and the players have to be willing to give back more to make their league work. We can argue all day about exactly how many teams are losing money and how much they're losing, but even Forbes magazine acknowledges that enough teams are struggling to make change necessary for the health of the league.

    If we are to believe Commissioner David Stern, the owners already have stopped fighting for rollbacks on contracts, have come off demands for a hard salary cap and no longer are interested in only partially guaranteeing some contracts.

    So it comes down to dividing the basketball revenue.

    That shouldn't be a reason to blow up part or all of the season.

    The risk for everybody is far too great. Even after one of the most compelling seasons in history, with so many likable superstars and mega-teams and built-in drama, the NBA maintains an increasingly tenuous hold on the American sporting consciousness. Take away part or all of this NBA season, and how many fans will come running back, especially in cities like Indianapolis?

    I have not heard this sentence uttered once in my presence:

    "Man, it's killing me the NBA season isn't going to start on time."

    Of course not. We've got the NFL. We've got the baseball playoffs. The college football season is in full swing. The NHL season begins today. (OK, that's just me.)

    In a good year, the NBA is a back-burner sport until late January.

    Go away now, and the damage will be significant.

    If the owners are serious about something close to a 50-50 split of basketball-related revenue, that must be a deal-maker.

    Consider this: The NFL union wanted a 50-50 split and settled for roughly 48 percent in a sport that is flourishing. NBA players were at 57 percent and are willing to move to 53 in a sport that is struggling.

    Ninety-nine percent of the time, I'm a players' guy. I'm a players' guy because I'm a union guy, and I'm all about improving the lot of the regular worker.

    There's no question, the owners have put themselves in this position. Nobody put a gun to anybody's head when it was time to make Rashard Lewis, now in Washington, the second-highest-paid player in the league at $22 million this season. There are plenty of dimwitted owners and general managers in this league who saddle their franchises with ridiculous player contracts. As an example, a lot of the Pacers' wounds in the past decade have been self-inflicted.

    But the players have had it so good for so long, it's time for them to get off the gravy train and make some significant concessions in the interest of the league's long-term financial viability. They're going to take a hit -- through last season they got 57 percent of the basketball-related income and haven't accepted anything less than 53 percent of the BRI in 28 years -- but these are unique and troubled times.

    Think about Eric Foster, and how his life would be different if he were an NBA player in the middle of a long-term deal. One terrible moment on a football field, and he's looking at the loss of millions of dollars.

    The distance between the league and the union doesn't seem all that great right now.

    It's time for the players to leave a few bucks on the table, and get back to work.
    'nuff said.
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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Admittedly, I haven't been following the NBA lockout that closely, but if what Kravitz says is correct that the only thing the players are holding out for is a larger percentage of the revenue pie, I'd say they've had it pretty good thus far and need to give alittle.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever



    I have not heard this sentence uttered once in my presence:

    "Man, it's killing me the NBA season isn't going to start on time."
    Interesting then that Kravitz doesn't have much contact with the core fan base of the Indiana Pacers. While it may not be "killing" us, lots of us plainly care deeply about whether or not the season starts on time or not. We want to finally start enjoying the payoff for the purgatory that the Pacers and we as fans have been held in that will begin in earnest almost as soon as the lockout is settled.

    That said, the core is much smaller than it once was.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    While Foster has to worry about his career, whether he's going to come back next year or ever, an NBA player in his spot would be without concern. If Foster were an NBA player with a multiyear deal -- as most players are -- he would be set to make money for years to come.
    This makes no sense. If Foster were an NBA player his contract would be guaranteed, sure, and if he worked at Google maybe he'd have stock options right now.

    It's time for the players to leave a few bucks on the table, and get back to work.
    Why is he not asking the owners to leave a few bucks on the table? They're all wealthy beyond nearly every NBA players wildest dreams.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Why is he not asking the owners to leave a few bucks on the table? They're all wealthy beyond nearly every NBA players wildest dreams.
    You can't leave something on the table when there is nothing there in the first place. Nba teams are bigger than their owners. I root for the Pacers because I grew up in Indiana and they represent our state. Our community benefits from having a team. If this was only about the owners making profits Indiana would no longer even have a team. You need to look at these teams as isolated business's instead of expecting the wealthy owners other ventures to subsidize the losses. We aren't talking about huge football profits here(at least not in Indiana), just solvency.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Anyone know what Eric Foster's signing bonus is? I'd like to know that before I would give any thought to Kravitz's take here. I know guys like Wayne and Mathis signed long term deals that were cap friendly and got a really nice signing bonus that would make their total compensation much more in line with the average NBA star of their caliber.

    I don't think you can blame the NBA players for having a guaranteed contract. The NFL union should blame themselves for not having guaranteed contracts, how in a sport so violent as the NFL do you not have have injury clauses to protect your players?
    But many NFL players have insurance to protect against career end injuries. But I think NFL contracts are a joke, they basically keep you from signing with another team who might offer you more money. Interesting that a team can part with a player for whatever reason, but a player can not do the same and sign with another team...

    I do believe the NBA contract is much too iron clad, but good on them for getting paid.
    Infact many people who work on contract have a guaranteed amount. So thats nothing new.
    Last edited by graphic-er; 10-10-2011 at 09:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
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    You need to look at these teams as isolated business's instead of expecting the wealthy owners other ventures to subsidize the losses. We aren't talking about huge football profits here(at least not in Indiana), just solvency.
    Okay, so we're taking it as fact that the Pacers are losing millions of dollars every year. This leads me to two things:

    First, the Pacers haven't operated a team worthy of being profitable for the last 6 years. Just being in the NBA shouldn't ensure that a team makes money every year, especially through a prolonged recession.

    Second, if the argument is that the Pacers weren't profitable even in the 90s when they were good, then that makes me question if Indiana is even a viable city for an NBA team. Either an owner needs to understand that he won't make money here and do it for the love of the game, or he needs to move the team.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Dear Mr Kravitz,

    Man, it's killing me the NBA season isn't going to start on time.

    Sincerely,

    QuickRelease

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Dear Mr Kravitz,

    Man, it's killing me the NBA season isn't going to start on time.

    Sincerely,

    QuickRelease
    To be fair to Bob, since he gets all of his material from PD, he probably just thinks this is another voice in his head. So, technically, he's still correct.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Either an owner needs to understand that he won't make money here and do it for the love of the game, or he needs to move the team.
    Or the system needs to be changed so that it IS viable to operate teams outside of the largest markets.

    The system shouldn't guarantee profits, but it shouldn't guarantee losses, either. A healthy sports league should represent all areas of the country, not just the most populated.
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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Either an owner needs to understand that he won't make money here and do it for the love of the game, or he needs to move the team.
    Sounds kind of like the current job market. The China Pacers, the India Pacers, or maybe the Turkish Hens would be a good name.
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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Okay, so we're taking it as fact that the Pacers are losing millions of dollars every year. This leads me to two things:

    First, the Pacers haven't operated a team worthy of being profitable for the last 6 years. Just being in the NBA shouldn't ensure that a team makes money every year, especially through a prolonged recession.

    Second, if the argument is that the Pacers weren't profitable even in the 90s when they were good, then that makes me question if Indiana is even a viable city for an NBA team. Either an owner needs to understand that he won't make money here and do it for the love of the game, or he needs to move the team.
    I have a hard time agreeing with this message. The Pacers are probably the 7th to 10th most likely city to lose a team. Tell that to the 6 teams ahead of us that are losing money and need to move their team. What other cities can handle a team under this structure? Nashville, Las Vegas, St Louis, Kansas City? I mean of those, St Louis is the only one I see being more viable than the ones trying not to lose their teams. In order for THE LEAGUE to have 30 teams, they need to have 30 VIABLE teams. This is where sharing local TV revenues amongst the teams evens the playing field with at least covering operating costs. Why do localities need to subsidize so much for a league that is structurally wrong? Why does our federal government even allow this to happen? Losing money is not the problem. There are ebbs and flows to revenue streams, but to have cash cows like the Lakers and Celtics with $2B tv deals on their own and you compare that to the $20M tv deals in Sacramento, Milwaukee, etc... how does that make ANY sense when all of these teams are still selling the same "NBA" brand? It has nothign to do with plotting the rich and against the richer and vice versa. It is about having a structure that promotes all teams, not just two or five. It's about the sustainability of a league. Not just one city's team. It is about overcoming the obstacles to having teams spend money on a similar playing field. We are lucky to have a great owner. We are lucky to have great players. We are an NBA team just the same as the Knicks or Heat or Magic. What will happen when Dwight leaves the Magic? That franchise will be screwed. They did it to themselves, mind you, but how does the league let it even get to that?

    The players have all the leverage in free agency. The owners should form a union to prevent players from getting paid more. Wait... but that ruins the "market" of free agency. I'm not pro-owner or pro-player. I'm in support of a basketball LEAGUE. Where all teams are part of a LEAGUE. A LEAGUE that is sutainable to promote competition where players are paid extremely well. There needs to be less of a reason for Donald Sterling to be sustainable by promoting losing. Why does that happen? Because he is the one that would rather be profitable than a winner. Why is that even a choice that teams have to make? It is the system that is wrong.
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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    This makes no sense. If Foster were an NBA player his contract would be guaranteed, sure, and if he worked at Google maybe he'd have stock options right now.
    But that is just the point he is trying to make. That a majority of NFL contracts are not gtd. Therefore Foster's income as an NFL player may be over.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    This makes no sense. If Foster were an NBA player his contract would be guaranteed, sure, and if he worked at Google maybe he'd have stock options right now.
    Aren't you the same guy who keeps saying you can't compare the NBA to the average Joe's job?


    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    Why is he not asking the owners to leave a few bucks on the table? They're all wealthy beyond nearly every NBA players wildest dreams.
    Losing 15mil per year isn't enough already? Geesh......

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Anyone know what Eric Foster's signing bonus is?
    http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapo...s/eric-foster/

    1.2 million for this year only. Apparently, no signing bonus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if someone goes on IR, they get the rest of that years contract. Where Foster gets nailed is future earnings. There may just be none from the NFL.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    The system shouldn't guarantee profits, but it shouldn't guarantee losses, either. A healthy sports league should represent all areas of the country, not just the most populated.
    I agree with this, but if the Pacers have lost money every season since 1990 then is Indiana really a viable place to have a team? I hope it is but I don't think teams should exist solely because of revenue sharing.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Aren't you the same guy who keeps saying you can't compare the NBA to the average Joe's job?
    Exactly, that's why I was joking. It's as ridiculous to compare Ed Foster to an NBA player as it is to compare him to an executive at Google.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I agree with this, but if the Pacers have lost money every season since 1990 then is Indiana really a viable place to have a team? I hope it is but I don't think teams should exist solely because of revenue sharing.
    The Lakers and Knicks needs to play someone.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    At this rate I may need to start a separate site called LockoutDigest.com

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    So I guess it's a good thing that Eric Foster can lose his money and livelihood getting hurt on the field. I guess that's fair.

    I think it's sickening. How does everyone not understand that the players are the product and deserve the lions share of the profits from the money they generate? You can get rid of the owners and the product is still there that everyone here pays money to see. Hell, they bleed tax payers for the money to build stadiums anyways.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    This makes no sense. If Foster were an NBA player his contract would be guaranteed, sure, and if he worked at Google maybe he'd have stock options right now.



    Why is he not asking the owners to leave a few bucks on the table? They're all wealthy beyond nearly every NBA players wildest dreams.

    I really don't think those owners got wealthy beyond players wildest dreams while running a failing business model. Seems kind of silly to tell 22 owners to keep losing money every year so the players can make money.

    The players can spare me all the "let us play" talk. It worked in the NFL because every team was making money. It doesn't work when the majority of the league is losing money and you still want more. It's about nothing but greed for the players. The average salary of the league is 5 million, I think they are doing ok.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by thefeistyone View Post
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    I really don't think those owners got wealthy beyond players wildest dreams while running a failing business model. Seems kind of silly to tell 22 owners to keep losing money every year so the players can make money.

    The players can spare me all the "let us play" talk. It worked in the NFL because every team was making money. It doesn't work when the majority of the league is losing money and you still want more. It's about nothing but greed for the players. The average salary of the league is 5 million, I think they are doing ok.
    I find it hard to believe that 22 teams are losing money. As has been shown in many cases, owners that have "lost" money on the team itself have made huge sums of money from the ancillary benefits of owning a team. There's a reason so many real estate tycoons own sports teams. It gives them an in for future real estate projects, as well as a reason to use Kelo when they need it.

    If these are smart businessmen, which I think they are, then they wouldn't buy into the NBA if it wasn't a healthy investment.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
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    I find it hard to believe that 22 teams are losing money. As has been shown in many cases, owners that have "lost" money on the team itself have made huge sums of money from the ancillary benefits of owning a team. There's a reason so many real estate tycoons own sports teams. It gives them an in for future real estate projects, as well as a reason to use Kelo when they need it.

    If these are smart businessmen, which I think they are, then they wouldn't buy into the NBA if it wasn't a healthy investment.
    I think one example has been given to that extent, the previous Nets ownership. Even that doesn't take away from the fact that the team did lose money. Giant companys lose money and go out of business. Billionairs lose money on some of their investments, as they are now. They're just trying to right the ship. Even the union doesn't dispute that the league as an entity is losing money and they've gone through the books.
    To say they aren't losing money is without basis.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    It's pretty obvious that NBA teams are losing money. If they weren't there wouldn't be so many teams up for sale/being sold.

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    Default Re: Probably Kravitz' best article ever

    Quote Originally Posted by oxxo View Post
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    It's pretty obvious that NBA teams are losing money. If they weren't there wouldn't be so many teams up for sale/being sold.
    There wouldn't be so many franchises being sold for far more than they were bought for or in many cases valued at? You'd think if these were such money pits the prices would go down.

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