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Thread: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    I don't agree with the fact of being proud of a team for their fighting. Pure and simple. Maybe it's just touchy to me because I'm a Pacers fan. K Stat of course isn't upset about it, because his team started all the fights, and to back it up, they won championships. I personally think it's a bucket-a-****.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    I hate agreeing with Kstat, but it's kind of a point of pride for Pistons fans, and if it were the Pacers background, I'm sure most of us would look back just as fondly on it. The rest of the league (and fans) hated the hell out of those Piston teams and their dirty tactics.

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  4. #28
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    If you think we started every fight, you need to brush up on your history...

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    I'm not even slightly surprised by this news.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Isn't Big Ben going to be a lawyer when he retires? Maybe it's just research.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Nobody ever got hurt, aside from bumps and bruises, nobody was ever rendered physically unable to play. It was all about intimidation.
    Uh.....Rudy T?

    I know you're going to say you weren't talking about other teams, but the discussion has moved past Detroit and entered into an attitude mode.

    When you celebrate violence, it tends to snowball into more violence.

    Good nose hard defense can be played without body slamming someone to the floor. You can give someone a hard foul, without taking out their legs. They don't go hand in hand.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Nobody celebrated the 1977 LA Lakers. We also didn't undercut anybody.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I hate agreeing with Kstat, but it's kind of a point of pride for Pistons fans, and if it were the Pacers background, I'm sure most of us would look back just as fondly on it. The rest of the league (and fans) hated the hell out of those Piston teams and their dirty tactics.
    Teams used to have all sorts of players bring guns into the lockerroom. Whether or not that's part of a franchises history is moot. It's wrong and it's dangerous.

    Scottie Pippen even with his pee soaked shorts is still one of the best defenders of all time. He didn't need to try and hurt people in order to be great. Same goes for Bill Russell.

    You don't have to celebrate acts of violence to appreciate good defense and strong willed teams.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Nobody celebrated the 1977 LA Lakers. We also didn't undercut anybody.
    So it's not okay to undercut someone, but it's okay to tackle them in the air, or throw punches? Good to know.

    Those are things the Pistons, and Pacers did do. Those are things that they shouldn't have done as well.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Scottie Pippen even with his pee soaked shorts is still one of the best defenders of all time. He didn't need to try and hurt people in order to be great. Same goes for Bill Russell.
    OK, first off, Pippen needed Michael Jordan to be great. Without him he goes down as the guy that pouted and took his ball with him when the last play was drawn up for someone else.

    Second, Bill Russell was physical as hell.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    So it's not okay to undercut someone, but it's okay to tackle them in the air, or throw punches? Good to know.
    You know what? yep. Be a man and shoot your free throws. There wasn't coddling back then.

    The great players like Bird and Jordan kept coming at us no matter how much they got hit. That's what made them great, and I respected them more for it.

    Players like Pippen and McHale? not so much.

    You don't have to celebrate acts of violence to appreciate good defense and strong willed teams.
    Basketball is a contact sport, or at least it was. If I can't go out on to a blacktop without an appropriate fear of getting slammed on my *** on hard concrete, professionals getting paid millions should be able to deal with the same force on a hardwood floor.

    This is basketball. Not ballet.
    Last edited by Kstat; 09-30-2011 at 12:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    OK, first off, Pippen needed Michael Jordan to be great. Without him he goes down as the guy that pouted and took his ball with him when the last play was drawn up for someone else.

    Second, Bill Russell was physical as hell.
    When MJ left for baseball, Pippen led a very weak cast to 50 plus wins, and a BS call by I think it was Steve Javey on the infamous Hubert Davis 3pt foul keep the Bulls from the Finals that year

    yes he was a pouting baby on the play designed to go to kukoc, but he was one HELL of a defender and would be that with or without MJ

    When we played them last in the playoffs he absoltuely took Mark Jackson out of the game

    Pip could guard almost every position on the floor except center

    HE might be one of the best on ball defeneders the NBA has ever seen

    Gary Payton was great as well
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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Pippen is a deserving HoFer, but without Jordan his resume is defined by the Kucoc moment. The guy just wasn't a leader.

    God forbid the Bulls lost that game because he wasn't out there, then his phantom foul in game 5 loses them the series.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    You know what? yep. Be a man and shoot your free throws. There wasn't coddling back then.

    The great players like Bird and Jordan kept coming at us no matter how much they got hit. That's what made them great, and I respected them more for it.

    Players like Pippen and McHale? not so much.



    Basketball is a contact sport, or at least it was. If I can't go out on to a blacktop without an appropriate fear of getting slammed on my *** on hard concrete, professionals getting paid millions should be able to deal with the same force on a hardwood floor.

    This is basketball. Not ballet.
    Some of my favorite games, contrary to the conventional wisdom of the league, were the physical wars the Pacers and Pistons had prior to 11/19. Those were chess matches every bit as much as they were rugby scrums at times, with some high level execution required to overcome the physicality.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    I enjoyed those scrums as well.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    OK, first off, Pippen needed Michael Jordan to be great. Without him he goes down as the guy that pouted and took his ball with him when the last play was drawn up for someone else.
    Okay? Who Scottie's teammates were or weren't has nothing to do with the topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Second, Bill Russell was physical as hell.
    Okay? Being phsyical doesn't mean you're handing out dirty plays.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    You know what? yep. Be a man and shoot your free throws. There wasn't coddling back then.

    The great players like Bird and Jordan kept coming at us no matter how much they got hit. That's what made them great, and I respected them more for it.

    Players like Pippen and McHale? not so much.
    When you take someone's legs out from under them, don't be surprised when they get up and start swinging. Having your legs taken out from underneath you, or getting hit with some other dirty play isn't about shooting freethrows. It's about punks going OVER the line with their play.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Basketball is a contact sport, or at least it was. If I can't go out on to a blacktop without an appropriate fear of getting slammed on my *** on hard concrete, professionals getting paid millions should be able to deal with the same force on a hardwood floor.

    This is basketball. Not ballet.
    I didn't say they couldn't be phsyical, or they couldn't foul hard, or that they couldn't have contact.

    There's a difference between being dirty, and being phsyical. You don't have to be dirty in order to be phsyical.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Pippen is a deserving HoFer, but without Jordan his resume is defined by the Kucoc moment. The guy just wasn't a leader.

    God forbid the Bulls lost that game because he wasn't out there, then his phantom foul in game 5 loses them the series.
    True

    So applying that thinking

    Was Joe Dumars great because of Isiaha Thomas ? Do you think he would have been great or very good on an average team where he was the main guy?
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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    OK, first off, Pippen needed Michael Jordan to be great.


    Looks like you need to brush up on your history.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
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    True

    So applying that thinking

    Was Joe Dumars great because of Isiaha Thomas ? Do you think he would have been great or very good on an average team where he was the main guy?
    Well, he was the best player on the Pistons for 3-year window between Isiah and Grant Hill. His scoring increased significantly during that span, and he was 2nd team all-NBA in 1993 next to Jordan. It certainly suggests that Dumars would have had better statistics on a worse team, but the pistons didn't really go anywhere.

    Dumars was and will always be an interesting case in the hall of fame because, much like Pippen, he was unique as a two-way star, and vital as a championship piece. However, all of his team success came as a secondary offensive option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Okay? Who Scottie's teammates were or weren't has nothing to do with the topic.

    They have everything to do with it. When you have Michael Jordan fighting most of your battles for you, you don't need to be overly physical. The Bad Boys didn't have a Jordan, or a Bird, or a Magic. They could either be like everyone else and accept the status quo, or they could change the game. They took the latter option. They didn't ***** and whine that the league was unfair and geared too much towards the mega-stars. They altered their style of play to even the odds.
    Last edited by Kstat; 09-30-2011 at 04:01 PM.

  23. #46
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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    When you take someone's legs out from under them, don't be surprised when they get up and start swinging. Having your legs taken out from underneath you, or getting hit with some other dirty play isn't about shooting freethrows. It's about punks going OVER the line with their play.

    Here we go with the taking legs out bit....which I already said was something the bad boys didn't do, and a tactic I didn't agree with. You're inventing arguments.

    And what you consider "over the line" is totally subjective. A slap on the wrist is considered a foul.

    I consider a foul to be over the line when the other guy is physically incapable of getting up. A good body-check at the rim is perfectly acceptable if you want to send a message.
    Last edited by Kstat; 09-30-2011 at 04:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Here we go with the taking legs out bit....which I already said was something the bad boys didn't do, and a tactic I didn't agree with. You're inventing arguments.
    I notice that you've latched on to one specific when I'm talking in generalizations. AGAIN.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    ...then you might want to stop using the same exact example in all of your arguments....people who generalize don't do that.

    That said, early in Bill Russell's day, taking the legs out was a first resort, which is why using the Russell argument is so unbelievably absurd.

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    I consider something to be over the line when the other guy is physically incapable of getting up. A good body-check at the rim is perfectly acceptable if you want to send a message.
    Wow.......

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    Default Re: Ben Wallace Arrested (Drunk Driving/Concealed Weapon)

    Yeah. I'm so awful. Hard fouls are evil. We should all go to jail for our impure interpretation of defense.

    This is a man's game. If the worst thing you get out of being fouled is bumps and bruises, take it like a man and shoot your free throws. If you can't deal with it, you picked the wrong profession.
    Last edited by Kstat; 09-30-2011 at 04:10 PM.

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