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Thread: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

  1. #51
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    The big issue in Indy minus Manning is the exposure, or should I say confirmation, of just how abjectly awful the defense is - scheme, personnel, you name it. If there's one key thing that will push us over the cliff of unable to compete in the absence of PM, it will be the D.
    Ring the bell... we have a winner...
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Colts should have tried to get Bledsoe out of retirement.. He hasnt played in years though and probably isnt in shape mentally anymore.

  4. #53

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Any rebuilding of the team that doesn't include significant changes in the coaching staff, and particularly at the top, will have limited success IMO.

  5. #54
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    The Colts' entire defensive scheme and personnel is built to funnel opposing teams to the perfect strategy to beat the Colts WITH Manning. ...That is to run the ball and control the clock and keep Manning off the field. Teams just need to stay with the plan and play solid football.

    TPTB seem to be stuck on the idea that the Colts' offense will force teams to try and keep up with it.... yet most of the better teams figured out long ago that isn't necessary. Why the Colts didn't adjust when that flaw was exposed, I have no idea. And it's a major flaw. It's a flaw that has limited the Colts in playoff success.

    So now we have that same flawed defense with an offense that is no longer capable of playing perfect or near perfect games.

    I'll never understand why TPTB didn't change gears a long time ago though. Once the flaw was exposed it's not like it was a revelation to any decent coach on what needed to happen to keep yourself in the game with the Colts. I'm sure there was probably some thought the Colts would/could adjust but obviously someone in the Colt hierarchy saw no reason to allow for the possibility of the flaw in the system to being exposed. Just imagine a Colts team who could consistently stop the run and get opponents off the field and an offense led by Manning. Even with an injured Manning on the bench we might still have a chance to weather the current storm and be competitive. But now? Thin ice.... It's a house of cards built on a foundation of sand.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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  7. #55
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Definitely agree with what Bball said.. The team has been terribly built for the most part. Peyton is just so freakin good he has still been able to win a lot of games. HOPEFULLY this will wake up the management and see how bad the team really is built. We have never had a good special teams, defense is always shaky without Bob Sanders and the Offense hasn't been near as dominant since the OL has decreased in skill. REALLY hope TPTB are jolted to this fact and aren't just gonna say "Eh, we didn't have Peyton. Of course we aren't going to be a top tier team." ...Most top tier teams would be OK if their QB went down, because they are well built all-round. The Colts however are very lopsided and are nothing without 18. This even includes changes that should be made in Coaching.. I have been one of the Caldwell supporters in the past, but i am starting to find that i was just being defensive for my coach more than seeing that he really isn't that good of a Head Coach. I'm ready for a real, tough, vocal football coach. (I am a big IU fan and i love their new coach, Wilson)

  8. #56
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    What I'll never and I mean never understand is why we didn't conduct a legitimate coaching search after Dungy left. Why was it necessary to appoint Caldwell as Dungy's successor a full year before Dungy left? Why did we basically let Dungy pick our next coach for us......essentially Dungy-lite?

    Is there any other team that has done this in recent years? Who else appoints a head coach in waiting? I can't think of anyone. Sure, sometimes a coach is fired and if the assistant who takes over does well enough then they get hired (Garrett, Frazier). But who essentially appoints a head coach in waiting without seeing the guy coach OR without conducting a legitimate coaching search by actually interviewing other candidates?

    And guys like Frazier or Garrett who takeover were at least coordinators who had a substantial effect on the team in the years prior to taking over as head coach. You can get at least get a sense of a coach's worth through their work as a coordinator. Caldwell OTOH was a QUARTERBACKS COACH for a team with Peyton Manning. What in the world could Caldwell have possibly taught Manning that he didn't know or hadn't already learned from Tom Moore? I'm certainly not privy to the inner-workings of the team, but I doubt that Manning's greatness comes from the fortune of having Jim Caldwell as a "quarterbacks coach" from 02-08.

    I don't think following Dungy with a Dungy-lite version was the best course for this franchise. We have now had 10 years of mild-mannered coaching and need a change of philosophy. I'd love to have a screamer and a yeller here like Rex Ryan. We need someone intense who could bust some *****

    Dungy was a nice guy, but he didn't have the right to chose his successor. He had the right to give all the input he wanted, but we still should have conducted a legitimate search. We got Dungy through a coaching search and we should have picked his successor from one after all.

    We should have had a process of interviews, with Caldwell interviewing like everyone else. If Caldwell is the best candidate then hire him. Were we really afraid that someone else was going to hire him? I don't think anyone else was dying to hire a guy who's resume' consisted of being 29-63 at Wake Forest and being the QB coach for Peyton Manning (easiest job ever).
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-15-2011 at 11:00 AM.

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  10. #57

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I'll never understand why TPTB didn't change gears a long time ago though. Once the flaw was exposed it's not like it was a revelation to any decent coach on what needed to happen to keep yourself in the game with the Colts. I'm sure there was probably some thought the Colts would/could adjust but obviously someone in the Colt hierarchy saw no reason to allow for the possibility of the flaw in the system to being exposed. Just imagine a Colts team who could consistently stop the run and get opponents off the field and an offense led by Manning. Even with an injured Manning on the bench we might still have a chance to weather the current storm and be competitive. But now? Thin ice.... It's a house of cards built on a foundation of sand.
    The blame can be shifted around and I have a hard time really assigning it.

    Bill Polain- Works under the salary restrictions of Irsay and the Colts don't put up the cash IMO like the Rooneys. Largely Polain has shown that he can adjust and get a gifted DT when he wants to. Polain has a hard job of balancing cap vs need and owners wishes.

    Caldwell- I don't like settling and Caldwell seems like a coach we have settled on. I think there are pros and cons to him and he certainly is a top 15 coach IMO but there are top 5 coaches on the market which begs the question why don't we get them? Irsay's loyality and Polains preference is my best guess. Also what happen to the blitz? I thought the Colts were going to blitz more and was one of the reasons why Wheeler was drafted.

    Irsay- It used to be that everyone thought Irsay was a hands off owner... Does everyone feel that way now? I think the biggest weakness of his is the loyality factor. Its admirable but it can prevent change when change is needed. The bottom line is the Colts could be in worst shape but most of the fans know that they could be in better shape if certain moves were made.

    Chris Polain- Here is the X-factor. Does he stay under what his farther has built or does he choose a different path. No one will know but if he trully ran the draft board this year then I say he did a heck of a job. Getting bigger on the offensive line seems to be a deviation from what Bill did in the recent past. At least in some aspects Chris seems to be trying to address the run game even if it may take a couple of years for the rookies to develop.

    Like I said the blame can be shifted around but this team has seen 2 coordinators leave and the best Qb go down for atleast 3 months. I can be alright with going 2-14 as long as it brings change to the team. What I fear is that the Colts will use the Manning excuse to explain the record rather than the poor defense and run game.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 09-15-2011 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #58

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    What I'll never and I mean never understand is why we didn't conduct a legitimate coaching search after Dungy left. Why was it necessary to appoint Caldwell as Dungy's successor a full year before Dungy left? Why did we basically let Dungy pick our next coach for us......essentially Dungy-lite?

    Is there any other team that has done this in recent years? Who else appoints a head coach in waiting? I can't think of anyone. Sure, sometimes a coach is fired and if the assistant who takes over does well enough then they get hired (Garrett, Frazier). But who essentially appoints a head coach in waiting without seeing the guy coach OR without conducting a legitimate coaching search by actually interviewing other candidates?

    And guys like Frazier or Garrett who takeover were at least coordinators who had a substantial effect on the team in the years prior to taking over as head coach. You can get at least get a sense of a coach's worth through their work as a coordinator. Caldwell OTOH was a QUARTERBACKS COACH for a team with Peyton Manning. What in the world could Caldwell have possibly taught Manning that he didn't know or hadn't already learned from Tom Moore? I'm certainly not privy to the inner-workings of the team, but I doubt that Manning's greatness comes from the fortune of having Jim Caldwell as a "quarterbacks coach" from 02-08.

    I don't think following Dungy with a Dungy-lite version was the best course for this franchise. We have now had 10 years of mild-mannered coaching and need a change of philosophy. I'd love to have a screamer and a yeller here like Rex Ryan. We need someone intense who could bust some *****

    Dungy was a nice guy, but he didn't have the right to chose his successor. He had the right to give all the input he wanted, but we still should have conducted a legitimate search. We got Dungy through a coaching search and we should have picked his successor from one after all.

    We should have had a process of interviews, with Caldwell interviewing like everyone else. If Caldwell is the best candidate then hire him. Were we really afraid that someone else was going to hire him? I don't think anyone else was dying to hire a guy who's resume' consisted of being 29-63 at Wake Forest and being the QB coach for Peyton Manning (easiest job ever).


    Mike Holmgren picked Jim Mora Jr as his replacement went around the Rooney Rule and everything in Seattle.

    Fortunately even Seattle realized that was a mistake.

    Will the Colts?

  12. #59

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    It's truth telling time:

    There's no such thing as a perfect football team. If there were, it would never reside in Indianapolis. Hard caps make parity, which is a good thing in Indianapolis, otherwise we'd go back to the dynasties of the 80s and 90s.

    Truth is that the Colts have tried to stop the run. That's why they hung on to Bob Sanders and his ridiculous contract longer than what was reasonable. It's cheaper to get a Bob Sanders than it is a Haynesworth. Not to mention that you can't just get one Haynesworth, you need 2, and you also need some linebackers. You are also handcuffed in that with the money spent on offensive weapons for Manning, you can't spend a ton on defense. Doesn't matter how good your QB is if nobody is open, just ask Matt Cassell.

    Bill Polian has been nothing short of miraculous over the last 10+ years. Anyone who complains about him should stop watching football.

    Speaking of Cassell, he's better than Collins at this point by a fairly wide margin, and even the year he started for the Patriots when Brady got injured was a fairly large downgrade in terms of offensive production. You can't replace a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady.

    The Colts defense is built around speed. The Colts are essentially the SSOL of football. They're looking to force one or two turnovers per game, giving the offense two more possessions than the opposing offense. The theory is if you give Manning two more possessions than the opposing QB, he'll win the game for you. I think it's good game planning, and done cheaply on the defensive end. But when your QB doesn't operate with laser precision, or worse, gives those two extra possessions back to the other team, you end up giving up 34 points in a half, because the defense can't be on the field that much in this system.

    Good luck with the season, the way it looks the Colts will still be better than the Chiefs this year, but bagging on the front office or Kerry Collins is poor form. There was no reason to expect Peyton Manning to miss an entire season, so there should be no expectation for there to have been a contingency plan to replace a Hall of Fame QB who had started every game for the last umpteen years.

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  14. #60
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    It's truth telling time:

    There's no such thing as a perfect football team. If there were, it would never reside in Indianapolis. Hard caps make parity, which is a good thing in Indianapolis, otherwise we'd go back to the dynasties of the 80s and 90s.

    Truth is that the Colts have tried to stop the run. That's why they hung on to Bob Sanders and his ridiculous contract longer than what was reasonable. It's cheaper to get a Bob Sanders than it is a Haynesworth. Not to mention that you can't just get one Haynesworth, you need 2, and you also need some linebackers. You are also handcuffed in that with the money spent on offensive weapons for Manning, you can't spend a ton on defense. Doesn't matter how good your QB is if nobody is open, just ask Matt Cassell.

    Bill Polian has been nothing short of miraculous over the last 10+ years. Anyone who complains about him should stop watching football.

    Speaking of Cassell, he's better than Collins at this point by a fairly wide margin, and even the year he started for the Patriots when Brady got injured was a fairly large downgrade in terms of offensive production. You can't replace a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady.

    The Colts defense is built around speed. The Colts are essentially the SSOL of football. They're looking to force one or two turnovers per game, giving the offense two more possessions than the opposing offense. The theory is if you give Manning two more possessions than the opposing QB, he'll win the game for you. I think it's good game planning, and done cheaply on the defensive end. But when your QB doesn't operate with laser precision, or worse, gives those two extra possessions back to the other team, you end up giving up 34 points in a half, because the defense can't be on the field that much in this system.

    Good luck with the season, the way it looks the Colts will still be better than the Chiefs this year, but bagging on the front office or Kerry Collins is poor form. There was no reason to expect Peyton Manning to miss an entire season, so there should be no expectation for there to have been a contingency plan to replace a Hall of Fame QB who had started every game for the last umpteen years.

    Good post.

    Polian was very very very good from 1998-2006. But since we won the Super Bowl almost 5 years ago, his drafting has been very suspect.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.co...e=any&show=all

    That is pretty much the textbook definition of poor drafting right there. Gonzales was OK when he was healthy in 07 and 08 but has been banged up ever since. We essentially traded our 08 first rounder for the bag of garbage that was Tony Ugoh. Donald Brown is a third year back who can't even get on the field right now. Jerry Hughes can't get on the field either. It's gotten to a point where you have to question if Polian has lost his touch when it comes to drafting.

    From 1998-2006 there is no question that Polian drafted extremely well. He drafted the likes of Edge, Reggie Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Clark, Sanders, Addai and found Saturday out of nowhere. He clearly knew how to find pro-bowl quality talent.

    But just like a coach or player can lose their touch, so can a GM. Since we beat the Bears in the Super Bowl, Polian has done a lot of whiffing. I'm not expecting the guy to draft a pro-bowler in the first round every single year. But I do expect him to draft guys that can at least play in their second or third year (Hughes and Brown) or aren't being cut like Ugoh.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 09-19-2011 at 12:18 PM.

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  16. #61

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    It's truth telling time:

    There's no such thing as a perfect football team. If there were, it would never reside in Indianapolis. Hard caps make parity, which is a good thing in Indianapolis, otherwise we'd go back to the dynasties of the 80s and 90s.

    Truth is that the Colts have tried to stop the run. That's why they hung on to Bob Sanders and his ridiculous contract longer than what was reasonable. It's cheaper to get a Bob Sanders than it is a Haynesworth. Not to mention that you can't just get one Haynesworth, you need 2, and you also need some linebackers. You are also handcuffed in that with the money spent on offensive weapons for Manning, you can't spend a ton on defense. Doesn't matter how good your QB is if nobody is open, just ask Matt Cassell.

    Bill Polian has been nothing short of miraculous over the last 10+ years. Anyone who complains about him should stop watching football.

    Speaking of Cassell, he's better than Collins at this point by a fairly wide margin, and even the year he started for the Patriots when Brady got injured was a fairly large downgrade in terms of offensive production. You can't replace a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady.

    The Colts defense is built around speed. The Colts are essentially the SSOL of football. They're looking to force one or two turnovers per game, giving the offense two more possessions than the opposing offense. The theory is if you give Manning two more possessions than the opposing QB, he'll win the game for you. I think it's good game planning, and done cheaply on the defensive end. But when your QB doesn't operate with laser precision, or worse, gives those two extra possessions back to the other team, you end up giving up 34 points in a half, because the defense can't be on the field that much in this system.

    Good luck with the season, the way it looks the Colts will still be better than the Chiefs this year, but bagging on the front office or Kerry Collins is poor form. There was no reason to expect Peyton Manning to miss an entire season, so there should be no expectation for there to have been a contingency plan to replace a Hall of Fame QB who had started every game for the last umpteen years.
    Should stop watching football? Really? because we're calling out Polian for his incompetence in recent years.

    Yes from 1998 to say 2005/6 he's done well but that was then we're talking about now.

    Nobody is saying he was always a bad GM that's false. He is however not as good as he once was and or the GOAT of GM's(if such a thing exists)

    The "GOAT" would realize that building around one player is a bad idea I don't care who it is. Especially in a sport such as football where one hit can end a career. They rode Manning until his neck hurt and now we're in this position. And the let the O-Line erode and the defense is exposed as the undersized pushovers they've always been. This team is very flawed in how its built.

    Also doesn't help the coach doesn't inspire much confidence in being a competent head coach which is what we need now.

    Even the Packers/Pats/Steelers who all have SB winning QB's have decent backups because they know that if something were to happen to their starter the team still needs to be able to win games.

    The Colts dropped the ball on that. Nobody was expecting a future HOFer as backup but someone competent not Curtis Painter who the Colts don't believe in either since they have Collins as the starter. I mean if that's the case why did they draft him in the first place?

    These aren't the things a good GM does.

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  18. #62
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Pllian to me is a lot like donnie walsh. He was a genius for many years, but his time has past.

  19. #63

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    Should stop watching football? Really? because we're calling out Polian for his incompetence in recent years.

    Yes from 1998 to say 2005/6 he's done well but that was then we're talking about now.

    Nobody is saying he was always a bad GM that's false. He is however not as good as he once was and or the GOAT of GM's(if such a thing exists)

    The "GOAT" would realize that building around one player is a bad idea I don't care who it is. Especially in a sport such as football where one hit can end a career. They rode Manning until his neck hurt and now we're in this position. And the let the O-Line erode and the defense is exposed as the undersized pushovers they've always been. This team is very flawed in how its built.

    Also doesn't help the coach doesn't inspire much confidence in being a competent head coach which is what we need now.

    Even the Packers/Pats/Steelers who all have SB winning QB's have decent backups because they know that if something were to happen to their starter the team still needs to be able to win games.

    The Colts dropped the ball on that. Nobody was expecting a future HOFer as backup but someone competent not Curtis Painter who the Colts don't believe in either since they have Collins as the starter. I mean if that's the case why did they draft him in the first place?

    These aren't the things a good GM does.
    Re-read my post. Every team in the NFL, minus their best player, is flawed. In fact, I'm not sure there is a team in the league right now that isn't flawed. The Ravens crushed the Steelers last week. Clearly the Steelers don't do well against that style of play. Fast forward to week 2, and the Steelers are manhandling the Seahawks, while the previously world-beating Ravens are losing to Tennessee. Whenever there is parity, matchups are going to make the games, and a good front office is going to make a team great. To that end, how long has it been since the Colts have had a losing season? Who else can boast a longer streak? How about you crucify Polian when the team is bad with Manning, or the team has been given 2-3 years to rebuild once he retires with no improvement?

    You claim the Packers/Pats/Steelers have great contingency plans. Aaron Rodger's backup is Matt Flynn. Tom Brady's backup is either Brian Hoyer or a rookie. Rothlisberger's backup is Charlie Batch, who is capable of leading a team to a .500 record, and nothing more. Face it, if you lose your starting QB, no matter what the team is, you're not competing for a title, and you're likely not going any further than the first round of the playoffs.

    If you're thinking that the GM should have a contingency plan to replace the likes of Peyton Manning, yes, you should stop watching football. Or at least, you should start watching college football, where you can support a team that will have 20+ great years in a row.

    Caldwell isn't a competent head coach? Who coached the team to the Super Bowl against the Saints? Oh, ignore that, it would totally derail your delusional ranting, and I'd hate to spoil your pity party.

    I don't even know why I try. I knew a certain percentage of the fan base wouldn't be able to handle a little losing, but I'm still trying to explain what should be obvious. Oh well, at least I can take solace in knowing if the Pacers have a good year this year, Conseco will be full of Pacers "fans" again.
    Last edited by Eindar; 09-18-2011 at 05:46 PM.

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  21. #64

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    Re-read my post. Every team in the NFL, minus their best player, is flawed. In fact, I'm not sure there is a team in the league right now that isn't flawed. The Ravens crushed the Steelers last week. Clearly the Steelers don't do well against that style of play. Fast forward to week 2, and the Steelers are manhandling the Seahawks, while the previously world-beating Ravens are losing to Tennessee. Whenever there is parity, matchups are going to make the games, and a good front office is going to make a team great. To that end, how long has it been since the Colts have had a losing season? Who else can boast a longer streak? How about you crucify Polian when the team is bad with Manning, or the team has been given 2-3 years to rebuild once he retires with no improvement?

    You claim the Packers/Pats/Steelers have great contingency plans. Aaron Rodger's backup is Matt Flynn. Tom Brady's backup is either Brian Hoyer or a rookie. Rothlisberger's backup is Charlie Batch, who is capable of leading a team to a .500 record, and nothing more. Face it, if you lose your starting QB, no matter what the team is, you're not competing for a title, and you're likely not going any further than the first round of the playoffs.

    If you're thinking that the GM should have a contingency plan to replace the likes of Peyton Manning, yes, you should stop watching football. Or at least, you should start watching college football, where you can support a team that will have 20+ great years in a row.

    Caldwell isn't a competent head coach? Who coached the team to the Super Bowl against the Saints? Oh, ignore that, it would totally derail your delusional ranting, and I'd hate to spoil your pity party.

    I don't even know why I try. I knew a certain percentage of the fan base wouldn't be able to handle a little losing, but I'm still trying to explain what should be obvious. Oh well, at least I can take solace in knowing if the Pacers have a good year this year, Conseco will be full of Pacers "fans" again.
    The Pats were 11-5 without Brady and the only reason they didn't make the playoffs was because the Dolphins owned the tiebreaker that year.

    Of course every team has flaws but at least .500 is better than what the Colts will end up being at the end of this season. I don't think they can even win a game at this rate. So yes every team should prepare for losing their QB even the Colts despite Manning lasting as long as he did because he is human and one hit can end a career in this game. Why wouldn't you plan for that? A smart GM would.

    Its one thing to lose an important player and fall off a bit its another to completely fall apart and look like the worst team in the NFL by losing one player.

    Which is what the Colts exactly look like right now. That's unacceptable I don't care who was injured. It makes one wonder how the Colts could look so incompetent after losing one player.

    And no Caldwell is a completely worthless head coach Bill Callahan took a team to the SB and we know how that ended. Jimbo is no different. In fact he's worse to me.

    Its one thing for the Colts to lose I've seen 1-15 seasons before and even those teams seem to look a lot more competent than this one. Its another to look like they have no clue with what they are doing and it shows.

    Unless they're like you and choose to live in denial over how bad this team really is sans Manning. So yes Polian deserves to be trashed for not building a good O-Line, a defense worth a damn, and not hiring a coach that actually can coach. Now everyone sees what a joke the Colts are without their most important player.

    Now they can't behind Manning anymore nobody in this organization can.

  22. #65

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    The Pats were 11-5 without Brady and the only reason they didn't make the playoffs was because the Dolphins owned the tiebreaker that year.

    Of course every team has flaws but at least .500 is better than what the Colts will end up being at the end of this season. I don't think they can even win a game at this rate. So yes every team should prepare for losing their QB even the Colts despite Manning lasting as long as he did because he is human and one hit can end a career in this game. Why wouldn't you plan for that? A smart GM would.

    Its one thing to lose an important player and fall off a bit its another to completely fall apart and look like the worst team in the NFL by losing one player.

    Which is what the Colts exactly look like right now. That's unacceptable I don't care who was injured. It makes one wonder how the Colts could look so incompetent after losing one player.

    And no Caldwell is a completely worthless head coach Bill Callahan took a team to the SB and we know how that ended. Jimbo is no different. In fact he's worse to me.

    Its one thing for the Colts to lose I've seen 1-15 seasons before and even those teams seem to look a lot more competent than this one. Its another to look like they have no clue with what they are doing and it shows.

    Unless they're like you and choose to live in denial over how bad this team really is sans Manning. So yes Polian deserves to be trashed for not building a good O-Line, a defense worth a damn, and not hiring a coach that actually can coach. Now everyone sees what a joke the Colts are without their most important player.

    Now they can't behind Manning anymore nobody in this organization can.
    Having Matt Cassell waiting in the wings wasn't great planning, it was quite a bit of luck. Keep in mind that prior to Brady going down, the last game that Cassell had started was in High School. They just happened to get lucky in that their scrub untested backup QB happened to be talented. Not to mention that Bellichick is notorious for doing frustrating things on draft day, trading down constantly to pick up more and more picks to fill out the easily filled positions, and relying on being in Boston and having Brady to fill the rest of the skill positions. For the record, the Patriots are hands-down the best run organization in football the last 8 years. But even with Bellichick being an evil genius, they didn't make the playoffs with their backup.

    Also, explain to me how 8-8 is better than 3-13. There's no lottery in the NFL. If you're going to miss the playoffs, in particular if you are going to miss the playoffs due to an injury to a key player, you want to be as bad as possible to get the most talented player you can, or to trade that pick for more picks to fill holes on your team. When you are pretty sure it's a one year bump in the road, you really do want to be as bad as possible in the NFL if you aren't going to make the playoffs. Small changes make big differences in the league. If the Colts get a top 4 pick and Manning is healthy next year, the team will be much improved over two years ago. If the team limps to 8-8 and Manning is healthy next year, you can look forward to another 10-6 season.

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  24. #66
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    I am talking about Collins I am shocked he past Joe. And Joe isnt dead did I miss a joke?
    Yes.

  25. #67

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    Every team in the NFL, minus their best player, is flawed. In fact, I'm not sure there is a team in the league right now that isn't flawed.
    I think everyone knows that there are varying degrees of flawed football teams. The Colts are more flawed than the Packers/Pats/Steelers with Manning let alone without.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eindar View Post
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    You claim the Packers/Pats/Steelers have great contingency plans. Aaron Rodger's backup is Matt Flynn. Tom Brady's backup is either Brian Hoyer or a rookie. Rothlisberger's backup is Charlie Batch, who is capable of leading a team to a .500 record, and nothing more. Face it, if you lose your starting QB, no matter what the team is, you're not competing for a title, and you're likely not going any further than the first round of the playoffs.
    The fact is you can win with a rookie Quarterback or a backup in the NFL if your team is balanced...(see Big Ben and Brady) so lets not act like its never been done before.

    The real issue a lot of people have is that contingency plans are put in place for when they are needed and most teams won't be given an ample warning like the Colts were. I mean Manning had neck issues well before the draft and lockout ended and the FA market opened up. Are you going to tell everyone here that signing Collins 2 weeks before the NFL regular season was a smart move by Polain. IMO it was a last resort move that could have and should have been done a long time ago.

    Concerning other teams Qb backups let me just say this. Matt Flynn competed against the Patriots last year which is more than can be said about Painter or Collins.

    Batch held up the Steelers possibility of actually making the post season let alone making it to the superbowl which may be what the 2011 Colts would have needed if Manning could have come back in December. Now we all know that this will never happen for the Colts becuase the team is flawed much more than the Steelers were in 2010.

    About the only thing I agree with you is that we might as well move on and lose big. There's no reason to think we will be like the Steelers in 2010 so we might as well get the BPA which would be Andrew Luck if we had the first overall pick.

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  27. #68

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Time to put out the sell order on Kerry Collins. I thought he had a chance to be servicable, but I was dead wrong.

  28. #69

    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    I just feel like Painter is hungry and has something to prove and Collins has neither.

  29. #70
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    Default Re: I'm not selling on Kerry Collins yet

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    I just feel like Painter is hungry and has something to prove and Collins has neither.

    I'll say this for Painter... NOW the pressure is off. The 0-2 start has significantly lowered the bar. He wouldn't be coming in to try and maintain an unbeaten season on the way to the SB or anything of the sort... The only pressure he'd really be under now is to be better than Kerry Collins. And that isn't exactly a tall mountain to climb.

    I'm not convinced he can be better than Kerry Collins but it might be worth giving him the chance.

    Of course this is assuming Peyton Manning can return this season in sufficient time, and with sufficient ability (and lack of rust), to put the Colts back in the playoff picture if they could manage a 2-4, 3-5, 4-5 or something without him. But both of those things are extremely optimistic. The more likely thing is it won't matter who starts or what record they can muster because Manning won't be back this season in sufficient shape or time, if at all, to make a difference (like running the table or something close to it with a razor thin margin of error).... and Painter or Collins neither one are likely to have the team anywhere near .500 at any point anyway. IMHO...

    And it doesn't matter who the QB is if the defense can't stop the run or get a team off the field.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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