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Thread: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

  1. #2351
    #Franking Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Rabjohns on Twitter;

    As previously reported on http://Peegs.com , Ron Patterson will be transferring from Indiana.

    Ron Patterson hasn't decided if he'll attend a prep school - Brewster is an option - or another 4-year school.

    The Ron Patterson decision was made this morning, per multiple sources close to him.

    Ron Patterson will not be at IU because he did not meet academic standards in summer school.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Ladies and gentlemen, let's give it up for IPS!

    How you could not have a student prepared for summer classes at IU which I'm pretty sure are designed for people who like to eat paste is beyond me.

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  3. #2353
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    If he was in summer school doesn't that mean he was already admitted? Meaning he met the requirements?

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    He was admitted, but he may have been admitted on probation which is a different thing entirely. Who really knows...

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  5. #2355

    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Well it really couldn't have worked out better. Out of the incoming freshman he was probably the least important. And I didn't really picture him getting much playing time with the upperclassmen we have

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Well I would have rather kept him and dropped Etherington personally.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    To clarify, courtesy of Jeff Rabjohns of Peegs.com:

    Maybe I haven't explained this well ... Let me try again ...

    There is a difference between being admitted and staying eligible.

    Any student on faculty sponsorship at IU has to meet a certain GPA in summer school. Patterson didn't meet it. Those close to him confirmed exactly what his GPA was. He didn't hit it.

    A bunch of schools have a very similar program. Duke does as well.

    No faculty committee is going to meet to kick a student out of a major state public university to solve an athletic scholarship crunch. The lawsuits would be crushing.

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  10. #2358
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    It's unfortunate that Buss couldn't make the grade to stay at IU but it does resolve the scholarship crunch both this year and going forward.

    Buss' absence won't be felt much this season, if at all with how deep IU is at the guard position. It will be interesting to see what schools try to bend the rules to get him to qualify.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    I'm usually not too keen on posting stuff from the premium board on Peegs, but for the conspiracy theorists out there, this further shoots that down (again, courtesy of Jeff Rabjohns):

    He had access to an incredible amount of support, including regular study table and tutors.

    The C- was the final straw. There were other issues, and IU worked hard to resolve them but Patterson just didn't take school as seriously as he should have this summer.

    I'm not comfortable bashing a kid - or getting into specifics that may come off that way - but let's put this way: Per multiple sources, Patterson didn't approach academic issues in enough of a serious nature despite multiple reminders and considerable guidance. And that comes from multiple people who have been around Ron for a long time and have tried to help him.

  12. #2360
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    ^ I am sure it is true that Patterson did not take studies seriously. And I'm sure that the same is true of a sizable proportion of major sport D1 players. So that does not answer why he is out.

    The only hard standards for admission and eligibility are the NCAA standards, which Patterson met. Other than that, there is no minimum that has to be met for admission to IU. Sure, there is a minimum (GPA+SAT/ACT) combo that the typical student has to meet (absent special circumstances), but coaches ask for waivers successfully all of the time at big-time programs. Much as a major donor can get an idiot son admitted, major sport coaches (and minor sport coaches for all I know) can get athletes in school if they want to.

    What probably happened here is that Crean did not ask for such a waiver, leading to Patterson's ouster. If there are other players (esp. freshmen) who would not have been admitted to IU absent the waiver, then Patterson was de facto "Creaned." Granted, Patterson contributed by not performing academically. I am saying though that it is implausible that he was the only one on the team who did not perform.

    (And just so I am not only bashing IU, the same applies to Jeff Robinson: if Painter really wanted him in, Purdue would have admitted him).
    Last edited by dal9; 08-15-2012 at 10:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    I'm not going to put my foil hat on because I don't like IU. If Crean sets academic standards that Patterson didn't meet and Crean didn't try and get him in just because he's good at basketball, then good. That's all the info we've got so I'll take it at face value. Sure, the timing's weird and it's convenient with the scholarship crunch, but honestly I don't care. IU's still a public Indiana university, I'm happy to see academic standards being upheld.

    Besides, even if you can use it as a knock on Crean, whatever, not like IU'll have trouble getting guys like Patterson in the future. Patterson probably wouldn't have gotten much run this year, but by the time he's an upperclassmen he woulda/shoulda been a pretty important cog with his perimeter defense. So sweet, IU lost a guy that probably would've wound up being an important piece. That's what I'll be excited about, not pissing matches about how coaches build their rosters.
    Last edited by Heisenberg; 08-16-2012 at 12:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Well Patterson could go to a community college for a year and then come back to IU also.

    It's interesting to me that people are doubting this was academics. Crean was incredibly serious about academics, yes it's convenient and I'm sure they've probably know about it for some time and that played into knowing how the scholarships would play out, but if Ron didn't meet Crean/the school's scholarship requirements then that's tough cookies.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Well Patterson could go to a community college for a year and then come back to IU also.

    It's interesting to me that people are doubting this was academics. Crean was incredibly serious about academics, yes it's convenient and I'm sure they've probably know about it for some time and that played into knowing how the scholarships would play out, but if Ron didn't meet Crean/the school's scholarship requirements then that's tough cookies.
    I bet Crean could have gotten him in anyways, but I'm glad he didn't. Crean always preaches hard work and if you tell a guy he's got to go focus on school for a summer to get into your program and play basketball, you expect him to do it. I don't think Patterson worked hard enough to get Crean's blessing and for that I am proud of Crean for not giving in, if that is the case. He's setting standards for his players to have, Patterson was below the bar.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    I have a feeling that Patterson wasn't going to class during the summer session as much as he was expected to.
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Dakich said Creek would have lost his schollie had Patterson not qualified...Creek tweeted that...Dakich is denying he said it....what a mess this could be.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Now some guy on twitter is taking credit for being the one that started that rumor on twitter saying he heard it from someone that Dakich said it. Mo must have picked up on it. At least it looks like it wasn't true.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Now some guy on twitter is taking credit for being the one that started that rumor on twitter saying he heard it from someone that Dakich said it. Mo must have picked up on it. At least it looks like it wasn't true.
    Yeah, I've been listening to Dakich all day, he NEVER said that.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    I'm not going to put my foil hat on because I don't like IU. If Crean sets academic standards that Patterson didn't meet and Crean didn't try and get him in just because he's good at basketball, then good. That's all the info we've got so I'll take it at face value. Sure, the timing's weird and it's convenient with the scholarship crunch, but honestly I don't care. IU's still a public Indiana university, I'm happy to see academic standards being upheld.
    But if academic standards for the purposes of men's basketball are only being upheld starting and ending with Patterson, that is still a little dirty. My point is that it is extremely unlikely that Crean's policy is to ask for no waivers to IU's admission standards for his team. And if he asks for waivers generally for players who meet the NCAA floor requirements, why didn't he do it in this case? (Seemingly obvious answer). And if Patterson expected to be granted the waiver, is not doing so unfair to him?

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Patterson released a statement today where he took ownership of the fact that he was aware of the standards and just failed to live up to them. I can't get a good feel on Buss, he seems like a good kid, but his statement is pretty non-chalant about the whole thing.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    I still have my gut feeling that he wasn't going to class as much as he should have been.
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

    "And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    But if academic standards for the purposes of men's basketball are only being upheld starting and ending with Patterson, that is still a little dirty. My point is that it is extremely unlikely that Crean's policy is to ask for no waivers to IU's admission standards for his team. And if he asks for waivers generally for players who meet the NCAA floor requirements, why didn't he do it in this case? (Seemingly obvious answer). And if Patterson expected to be granted the waiver, is not doing so unfair to him?
    Yes, this is all correct.

    But is there a player Crean's gotten admitted that shouldn't have been? I honestly don't know. If there isn't this just doesn't mean anything.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    There has been absolutely nothing to suggest Crean has bent the rules for some recruits but not others, that is just not true to even speculate on it. Plus if Crean was bending rules why wouldn't Crean bend the rules for a guy who was supposed to be the best defender of a brilliant 5 man class as well as the first commitment of that clas?

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  28. #2373
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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Yes, this is all correct.

    But is there a player Crean's gotten admitted that shouldn't have been? I honestly don't know. If there isn't this just doesn't mean anything.
    It is hard to know for a fact (because we don't even know what IU's formula for regular student admission is, do we? let alone basketball players' high school academic records). But, from what I understand waivers for under-performing student-athletes are very common in big time sports. (How often do we hear of a case where a sought-after recruit met NCAA guidelines, but not school guidelines, and was therefore rejected? Almost never. I take that as another point of evidence.)

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Dal I need to go buy some more gum, popsicle sticks and tin foil for you if this is really a conversation you're intent on pursuing. IU graduated every single senior last year, they graduated Jordan Hulls and Derek Elston early, there is absolutely no indication that Crean has ever bent the rules for one person and then decided to bone Patterson this year just to fix the schollie situation. Honestly, it's a little insulting as an IU fan to have it inferred with no real evidence and a comment from Patterson himself that makes it perfectly clear he was aware of what would happen if he did not fix his grades.

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    Default Re: Indiana University Athletics Thread 2011-2012

    Why would Crean have applied for a waiver for Buss? Look, everyone knew the situation IU was in with the scholarship crunch. The players, the coaches, the administration, the fans, the tutors, everyone. Crean has made academics and hard work a priority for playing on his teams. The players knew the situation and knew that if they underperformed, they were at risk of losing their spot on the team. The situation had to work itself out. Patterson getting subpar grades sealed his fate. Yeah, if we were under the limit for scholarships, Crean probably would have put in for a waiver or whatever that process is. But as it stands--no way. Besides, what are the chances the NCAA/university would have granted that waiver knowing the situation IU was in with their free rides? No foul play, no BS was going on here.

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