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Thread: U of Miami

  1. #26
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    And now I'm reading articles saying how the NCAA needs to change, and start playing players, because of this.

    Well then, if that's your justification/reasoning I think we should start paying murderers too. All our punishments don't seem to be detering people from killing people, so let's just okay it, and try to reward them for not being able to follow the law as well.

    Pretty stupid argument, but yet it's getting passed along by the media.

    How about having a backbone and some moral integrity for once, instead of taking the easy way out.

    Paying players won't make the problem go away, it will only make part of the problem legal. Such a stupid reasoning.

  2. #27
    future dragon trainer Heisenberg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Players shouldn't get paid, not by the university or anyone with university ties anyway. But you bet your *** they should be able to make money off their likeness, just like the Olympics. Every other student on scholarship gets their OMGZZZ FREE EDUCATION and at the same time can take paid positions during their study they otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Why shouldn't Player X be able to shoot a car commercial for a thousand bucks?

  3. #28
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quick show of hands, anyone suprised by this? Anyone??? OK then...
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

  4. #29
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Players shouldn't get paid, not by the university or anyone with university ties anyway. But you bet your *** they should be able to make money off their likeness, just like the Olympics. Every other student on scholarship gets their OMGZZZ FREE EDUCATION and at the same time can take paid positions during their study they otherwise wouldn't be able to get. Why shouldn't Player X be able to shoot a car commercial for a thousand bucks?
    There's nothing against an athlete working a regular job. They can't benefit because their an athlete though.

    Letting them get paid, because they're an athlete, isn't fixing the problem.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Yeah, but is an athlete doing commercials for a car dealer any different than a finance student with good grades getting a high paying investment banking internship?

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  6. #31
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Yes, because no one would care if it wasn't an athlete. It would be some random student standing there, and that wouldn't help sell cars, nor would they get that kind of money for an appearance.

    They are making money off of their status as an athlete. They might as well be paid for how many tackles they make, or how many points they average, because the higher profile the athlete the more money they're going to make for appearances.


    Athletes get everything from food to clothing to rent paid by the schools. They still have the option of taking out student loans, if they need more money, and I would bet that a good portion of them are eligible for grants and they would receive money from those as well.

    Yes, universities make tons and tons of money off of athletics. But they also take most of that money, if not all, and reinvest it into the school.

    Whether it's a new jumbotron, or a new wing on their media building, it's going right back into the school one way or another.

    When I leave school, I'm going to have a lot of money that I owe. When they get done with school, they either won't owe a dime or they will have very minimal loans.

    Are we really going to try and complain that it's unfair to the student athlete? Their college experience is completely different than most, unless your getting everything paid for by your parents, but that still costs your family lots of money.

    How much money is a college education worth? A hell of a lot more than a couple thousand dollars that you're going to make by appearing in a TV commercial.

    Student athletes get a better benefit from their school than the rest of the student population, and it's not even close. If I start failing my courses, who cares. If the star QB starts failing, he will have every ounce of resources available to him from a personal tutor, to being able to take his final otuside of the classroom, and most likely, the benefit of the doubt from the instructor.

    How much money does all those advantages equal up to?

    I've got friends that have been on just about every athletic team at BSU, and I can't think of one that thinks they're being cheated.

    The ones feeling cheated are those who go to big schools that see big checks. But how many schools really make money at those sports, when talking about the entire NCAA? Very, very few.

    Letting the NCAA change it's rules, because a handful of schools out of a couple hundred have a hard time keeping their athletic programs in check is stupid. It will cause the collapse, or atleast make them fall out of Div 1 status, for a lot of schools.

    If Texas/OSU/IU/Miami whom ever don't want to follow the rules in place by the NCAA, then don't be a member of the NCAA and start your own association where you're free to pay your players.

    Don't drag the other 300+ schools down because a handful, in the grand scheme of it all, can't police themselves.

    MAC schools, like Ball State, already lose money on their football programs. Most schools pay more for football than what football brings in. The BSU board I frequent has this topic of conversation quite often, some posters thinking BSU should drop down to Div II (like Butler) so the football program won't be a financial drain. Opening up payment for players, no matter how small, will put the final nail in the coffin.

    And no, this isn't about BSU. I'm just using it as an example of how it would impact the other 90% of schools that make up the NCAA.

    EDIT: About the schools who actually do profit off of their athletic programs. That is the exact reason why Texas A&M wants to leave the Big 12, because Texas has their own network.

    A major school in a major conference can't even compete with Texas because of all the money they bring in. So in order to really compete, they feel like they have to go as far as moving out of their conference.

    The whole thing is a benefit for a select amount of schools, while the massive majority get screwed.

    Sounds just like the M.O. for the NCAA.
    Last edited by Since86; 08-18-2011 at 11:51 AM.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    I guess the biggest question is this.....

    What do you do about all the other sports that dont make money, like soccer, swimming/diving, baseball, field hockey, etc.

    Title IX would have to kick in somewhere.



    You know how you get out of this mess? Make the punishment so harsh that no one would really be willing to break the major rules.

    If you get caught giving illegal benefits to players, school being aware of it or not, just bash them over the head. Make it be known, that if you break the rules your school will be crushed.

    Any system you put in place is going to be able to be cheated. That doesn't mean you should just open up the flood gates, and let the 20-30 schools who can pay ruin it for other 300.

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  9. #33

    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Student athletes get a better benefit from their school than the rest of the student population, and it's not even close. If I start failing my courses, who cares. If the star QB starts failing, he will have every ounce of resources available to him from a personal tutor, to being able to take his final otuside of the classroom, and most likely, the benefit of the doubt from the instructor.
    Great points there Since86.

    I had a quick question. What is the disparity between training a college athlete to be an athlete versus training a student to enter the workforce in their respected field.

    To me even if you have boosters footing the bill for the head coach you still have assistants, tutors, college stadiums, practice facilities, trainers etc etc to train your athletes so you can be competitive as a program.

    Student athletes don't pay these people directly but they do help pay for them if they are in a profitable sport like football or basketball.

  10. #34
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    I used to be 100% no money for athletes, but then when I found out what Michigan was doing on the Fab Five, I started to waver some (and this coming from someone who spent time in the belly of the college sports beast).

    If a college sells a jersey with a player's last name on it, shouldn't the player be entitled into a share of the money?
    "Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

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  11. #35
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Yes, because no one would care if it wasn't an athlete. It would be some random student standing there, and that wouldn't help sell cars, nor would they get that kind of money for an appearance.
    I could reply to your whole post, but I think you're missing my point here, I agree the school gives them everything the school should have to give them, athletes should get nothing more from the school.

    BUT

    An art major isn't going to get the same kind of money for a finance job that finance student with a 4.0 would get, and a 3.0 student isn't going to get the job a 4.0 student would. So why shouldn't a star athlete get a benefit OUTSIDE OF SCHOOL that a worse player wouldn't get? I guess all paying student internships and jobs should be abolished.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 08-18-2011 at 02:51 PM.

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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Should we hold all people on scholarships to this standard? Should a music major at the world renowned Jacobs School of Music at IU who has received a full scholarship not be allowed to play his music for money or sell his CDs while he is at IU?

    I'm not saying the school should pay them on top of what they already get, I'm just saying I see nothing wrong with them using their skills outside of school to get paid. If a scholarship music major or a scholarship business major can do it then why not a scholarship athlete?

    If a restaurant wants to pay an athlete to do an ad, I see no problem with that, but schools should NEVER be allowed to pay their athletes.

    The concern to my argument and the other side of the coin is, where do you draw the line? What stops being a job and becomes an improper benefit? Unfortunately we can't use the honor code, so I must admit, I don't have a solution for it off the top of my head. So due to the fact that some people can't be trusted, I do think you probably have to outlaw it altogether, which is a shame.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 08-18-2011 at 02:56 PM.

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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I used to be 100% no money for athletes, but then when I found out what Michigan was doing on the Fab Five, I started to waver some (and this coming from someone who spent time in the belly of the college sports beast).

    If a college sells a jersey with a player's last name on it, shouldn't the player be entitled into a share of the money?
    Colleges are not allowed to sell jerseys with a player's last name on it. A person would have to pay extra for it to be personalized.

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  14. #38
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman21 View Post
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    I used to be 100% no money for athletes, but then when I found out what Michigan was doing on the Fab Five, I started to waver some (and this coming from someone who spent time in the belly of the college sports beast).

    If a college sells a jersey with a player's last name on it, shouldn't the player be entitled into a share of the money?
    No. The player is using the university as much as the university is using the player. The university wants to win conference and (hopefully) national titles to pump up it's exposure and elevate it's status to boosters, alumni, and advertisers. The athlete either wants an education to provide a better future or a place to showcase their talents for professional leagues. The problem is that the athlete doesn't want to wait for what he thinks he's entitled to. But they forget, in all but a few very special cases, the athlete needs the university FAR more than the university needs the athlete. The athletes are getting more than enough to offset their contribution to the school.

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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    Should we hold all people on scholarships to this standard? Should a music major at the world renowned Jacobs School of Music at IU who has received a full scholarship not be allowed to play his music for money or sell his CDs while he is at IU?

    I'm not saying the school should pay them on top of what they already get, I'm just saying I see nothing wrong with them using their skills outside of school to get paid. If a scholarship music major or a scholarship business major can do it then why not a scholarship athlete?

    If a restaurant wants to pay an athlete to do an ad, I see no problem with that, but schools should NEVER be allowed to pay their athletes.

    The concern to my argument and the other side of the coin is, where do you draw the line? What stops being a job and becomes an improper benefit? Unfortunately we can't use the honor code, so I must admit, I don't have a solution for it off the top of my head. So due to the fact that some people can't be trusted, I do think you probably have to outlaw it altogether, which is a shame.
    The biggest reason why athletic players are held to a different standard is the most obvious reason. NCAA stands for the National Collegiate Athletic Association.

    Music/Art isn't athletics and therefore the NCAA has no power over what schools do.

    The NCAA is an association of schools. The universities that make up the NCAA gives it it's power. If you don't want to be a part of the NCAA, and you want to pay players, then go right ahead and do so.

    You just need to drop out of the NCAA first.

  16. #40
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Trader Joe and I are on the exact same page. I might be a little more extreme, I'd rather there be legitimate minor leagues like Europe and kids are getting paid from day one.

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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
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    Trader Joe and I are on the exact same page. I might be a little more extreme, I'd rather there be legitimate minor leagues like Europe and kids are getting paid from day one.
    And that would totally kill the NCAA as we know it. If that's the case then all the major conferences need to get their own association where they can pay their players.


    And then they can deal with the fallout when they get sued for a violation of Title IX.

  18. #42

    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Trader Joe View Post
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    You guys do realize Miam WAS on probation when all these events were going down right? Miami has been on perpetual probation basically since the 90s.
    No, the Miami football program last was punished in 1995 and had three years of sanctions from that series of infractions.

    This latest scandal dates from 2002 to 2010.

    I'm not claiming they are clean---they were probably dirty as all get-out all along. I'm just saying that they are not being accused of misconduct while actually suffering punishments for other misconduct,as was the case with SMU.

    edit-- I guess your point is that, as Forde notes, the Miami BASEBALL program was investigated in 2003. I'm not sure to what extent that is held against the football program, but it would be a compliance issue for the school as a whole.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 08-18-2011 at 05:09 PM.

  19. #43
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    Default Re: U of Miami

    Well I think the key issue here is that Shapiro is likely not the only dirty Miami booster, how many skeletons are going to end up getting yanked out of the closet during the NCAA investigation?

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  20. #44

    Default Re: U of Miami

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    No, the Miami football program last was punished in 1995 and had three years of sanctions from that series of infractions.

    This latest scandal dates from 2002 to 2010.

    I'm not claiming they are clean---they were probably dirty as all get-out all along. I'm just saying that they are not being accused of misconduct while actually suffering punishments for other misconduct,as was the case with SMU.

    edit-- I guess your point is that, as Forde notes, the Miami BASEBALL program was investigated in 2003. I'm not sure to what extent that is held against the football program, but it would be a compliance issue for the school as a whole.
    The athletic department would still be on the hook if the school was on probation. Failure to monitor and report is a big violation.

    The AD will get canned if he isn't already but I am sure the baseball scholarships will be safe and their postseason play will be alright. The NCAA handles it as a school issue (AD) and a the sport that did the violation. The penalities will affect both. The length of the probation will be AD's punishment and the scholarships/postseason play will be the football programs punishment.

    Overall the football program will get harder now since the athletic department was on probation for failure to monitor and report as a whole.

    Since the football program has had major violations in the past and has a histroy of it I expect the punishments to be rather big. Like USC times 10 big. Not the death penality but the "U" got hit at the wrong time and the NCAA has now got to make a bigger statement given the recent up tick in violations.

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