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Thread: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

  1. #26
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by PurduePacer View Post
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    I still like a

    DC/Hill
    PG/Hill
    DG/PG

    rotation for the 1-3. Throw in a little Lance, Rush, or DJ as needed and I think we are pretty solid. Like others said, 4 and 5 are what we need most.
    No question about it. DC, Hill and PG are all young improving players who were pretty good last year. Combine Lance into that equation, we should be solid at SG and PG. Far better than last year.

    Think about it. We had AJ Price, Rush and Dunleavy playing in the playoffs. We will now have a more mature version of DC, George Hill and probably Lance. That sir, is a very clear talent upgrade.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    So we aquired Hill to only play on the wing? Well, I disagree. I assume he'll do the same thing he did in San Antonio. He'll take a good share of minutes at 1 and 2.



    What more could I want from a starting shooting guard?
    Man... Unless George takes a huge leap forward, how about a lot more?
    Aren't you overrating George's current game "a little bit"?
    George is years away from his prime.
    He was nowhere near an above average starter this season.
    I'd be perfectly fine with a quality veteran wing who could start at 2 while George keeps developing.

    And even if it's not a starter (a good wing would probably take moving Posey&co to make some room)...
    Ideally, you want at least 3 quality wings in the rotation. With Hill playing the backup 1 a lot, we maybe have 2.5. That's assuming good consistent play from George.
    After that, it's a poo-poo platter of Rushs and Dahntays who are bound to get good minutes right now.

    I'd salute Bird if he attempts to clean the house and bring a quality veteran wing. Whether a starter or a good backup.
    I'm not overrating him, but I'm NOT underrating him either. I'm tired of the "Let our young players develop from the bench" concept. I say throw him to the fire and let's see what we got in Paul George.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    At first I thought the thread topic asked if Bird wants another "ring."
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Considering that we have only Hans and Hibbert up front, I think the PF and C positions are of greater need to fill out the roster. BUT, I think SG is where we need the biggest UPGRADE in overall talent.

    I wouldn't mind having Hill be the backup at both guard positions and PG24 being the backup at SF then SG if we were able to get ourselves a higher quality SG. I'd be fine with losing Dahntay, Rush, Dun, Lance, and Posey and getting someone like JRich. He's probably my first choice for a free agent this season.

    I think we could easily fill in the holes behind Hibbert and Hans (and yes, I believe Hans is the starter at PF for us) with a handful of guys this year and next on the free agent market. If you think we need a tough guy, sign a guy whose only strength is strength. If you think we need a rebounder, sign a rebounder. I think Hibbert and Hans will be starting together unless we somehow get DHoward or KLove, and then we can use our cap space to fill in with those mid-level, niche players for depth.

    The reason I say that is two-fold. First, I have confidence in #55 and #50. Second, I believe the NBA is a game made for SGs and PGs, and it takes a superstar at one of those two positions to win a title. I like DC a lot, but he's not going to be our superstar. So, if we can land Eric Gordon next year, we're made. This year, I'd go after JRich, and probably see if we can still get Mayo. The second two may not be the Kobe-level we all dream of, but on our team, I think they would succeed and push us a little closer to where we want to be.

    Paul George may develop into that guy, but he's not going to be there yet this year, so I would gladly add someone to the mix who's on that next level and just get rid of the mediocre guys we've got on the wing.
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    No question about it. DC, Hill and PG are all young improving players who were pretty good last year. Combine Lance into that equation, we should be solid at SG and PG. Far better than last year.
    Adding GH into the equation ( or more specifically removing AJ from the equation and substituting GH into his spot on the rotation ) does mean an increase in talent at the Guard rotation....but Lance IMHO still is an "unknown variable" to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Think about it. We had AJ Price, Rush and Dunleavy playing in the playoffs. We will now have a more mature version of DC, George Hill and probably Lance. That sir, is a very clear talent upgrade.
    Sorry, but I don't consider any of the above a "very clear" upgrade at all....despite getting some Playoff experience and another year underneath the belt, I don't think that AJ, BRush or Dunleavy are going to make that much of a difference that you think it will. At least for AJ, BRush and Dunleavy.....I've seen enough of them to know what they are capable of and that we have seen their "ceiling". A Playoff run isn't going to equate to a "very clear" upgrade in talent whenever the next season is going starts.

    As for Lance; IMHO, despite all the uptalk that Brid has been heaving on him, I need to see him play more before I consider him a solid rotational Guard. I'm not going to annoint him anything until he gets consistent minutes.
    Last edited by CableKC; 08-01-2011 at 03:08 AM.
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    If you told me today we were keeping AJ and cutting DC, it wouldn't bother me much.

    We do need an upgrade at the one.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    If you told me today we were keeping AJ and cutting DC, it wouldn't bother me much.

    We do need an upgrade at the one.
    unless you got the names switched around by mistake.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I am just hoping there is a season. With players signing in Europe I expect a long no-season. Sigghhhhh....
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    What about Jeff Green? He can play 3/4. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    What about Jeff Green? He can play 3/4. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
    When I think of a "Wing Player", I think more of a Player that is more of a SG that can play some SF minutes or vice versa....a SF that can play some SG minutes. Jeff Green doesn't fit that bill if you ask me....I agree that he's a Tweener Forward ( IMHO, more of a SF then a PF ), but he doesn't fit the mold of Player that I think that we are discussing in this thread.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    unless you got the names switched around by mistake.
    No, I got them right.

    AJ sees the floor a little better and is more clutch down the stretch. And he doesn't ball gawk on defense.

    Collison is a decent 2 in a point guard's body.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Point Guards DC, AJ, Lance, Hill
    Wings PG, DG, Brandon, D Jones, Hill, Lance

    Thats 6 wings, thats enough.

    DG is a given. PG has shown he's functional at least, last year, with tons of upside/room to improve. D Jones is solid and a proven rotation guy, imo. Same for Brandon. BRush isn't what I'd hoped at 13, but he is guy you can play and win with, imo. Lance is an unknown you can't count on. Hill is proven. You could argue you need a big 3, if Danny went down, but I don't think its worth worrying about with this group. I think PG, BRush, and D Jones can all give you mins at the 3.

    So no, you need big men. You have Tyler and Roy under contract, that needs to be the focus, unless things are rearranged with a big trade.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    No, I got them right.

    AJ sees the floor a little better and is more clutch down the stretch. And he doesn't ball gawk on defense.

    Collison is a decent 2 in a point guard's body.
    So you would cut an above average shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body just so you could keep a below average point guard? And I actually like AJ and think he's capable of being better than he's shown already, but good lord.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So you would cut an above average shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body just so you could keep a below average point guard? And I actually like AJ and think he's capable of being better than he's shown already, but good lord.
    Rewatched game 4 and game 1 of Bulls series, plus thinking about the Bulls series. AJ was very solid, actually a difference maker, imo. Put him in a situation where he doesn't have to be the main offensive threat with the second team next year, I think his efficiency goes way up. Couple that with a fully healthy body, I think he projects an above average back up Point guard. His defense was better than DCs last year, even on 1.5 legs.

    I really have no idea how they are going to do the minutes at this point tho. I think alot depends on how much Paul George has improved and how they are going to use Hill. Also, is Lance worthy of any minutes, who knows.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    His problem wasn't that he can't play well. It's that he'll play relatively well one game, and then have a nightmare next three games, have two decent games, two bad, one good. He's wildly inconsistent.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So you would cut an above average shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body just so you could keep a below average point guard? And I actually like AJ and think he's capable of being better than he's shown already, but good lord.
    I'm the biggest Price fan here, and I wouldn't cut DC in favor of AJ.

    I think AJ's got a higher ceiling than most give him credit for. And in fact, if things work out for him, he could end up a better PG than DC. But forgetting everything else, AJ's averaging a traumatic injury every other year. Let's be careful.

    You keep him, for this season at least, because he's cheap as dirt, and at the very least a very decent backup point guard. See if he becomes more consistently good, and go from there.

    edit: The Bulls series. Price was very good. He had a god awful three minute stretch, and a hectic game 3. But that game two was really a major reason why I like the kid. He panicked..was awful..to end the half. Was still clearly shaken in the third. But the last five minutes of the game you could legitimately argue he was playing like the best Pacer on the floor. There wasn't a positive thing that happened for the Pacers, with the exception of a PG drive to the basket, that Price wasn't a part of. It takes a certain mental toughness to get yourself together, at crunch time, like Price did..in that situation. (After playing like a mess, suddenly having your role change and having ton of pressure, your first playoff series ect..)

    And as for minutes. Have them battle it out in practice for minutes. Seriously..let them all earn it. I know that hasn't happened in the past couple of years, but that's really the way basketball teams should work.
    Last edited by Sookie; 08-01-2011 at 02:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    So you would cut an above average shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body just so you could keep a below average point guard? And I actually like AJ and think he's capable of being better than he's shown already, but good lord.
    I didn't quite say that. Here's what I said:
    If you told me today we were keeping AJ and cutting DC, it wouldn't bother me much.

    We do need an upgrade at the one.
    So, I wouldn't necessarily petition for it, but if it happened, it wouldn't upset me.

    My larger point is that I don't think either are that good. If a superstar is a 10, Granger is an 8, then Price and DC are both 4's, imo.

    We need an upgrade at the point.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I didn't quite say that. Here's what I said:

    So, I wouldn't necessarily petition for it, but if it happened, it wouldn't upset me.

    My larger point is that I don't think either are that good. If a superstar is a 10, Granger is an 7, then Price and DC are both 4's, imo.

    We need an upgrade at the point.
    No doubt, we need a better PG as soon as possible.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I think its way too early to judge DC, if people feel after a season with a full training camp and same coach under his belt, that he is not progressing than maybe

    I feel he needs at least one full season , under Vogel to judge fairly
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    We should just let our guards/wings develop. No need to add a 9th guard/wing with DC, AJ, GHill, Lance and PG all expected to make positive strides this season. Let the young guys develop, let guys like Jones, Rush and DG do what they do and lets find some depth for the front court.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    One thing that should be said that I'm not sure everyone understands in this thread....IF Bird thinks that there should be an upgrade to the Wing Spots....especially the Starting SG spot...by signing a FA Wing or trading for one....it does not mean that the FO won't look to upgrade the Frontcourt by signing a FA PF or adding an additional Backup Big Man like Foster.

    We all know that the Frontcourt needs to be upgraded....but that doesn't mean that the SG spot can't be upgraded at the same time. We have the means and the resources to do so....the question more is whether Bird thinks we need to do that or not.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    One thing that should be said that I'm not sure everyone understands in this thread....IF Bird thinks that there should be an upgrade to the Wing Spots....especially the Starting SG spot...by signing a FA Wing or trading for one....it does not mean that the FO won't look to upgrade the Frontcourt by signing a FA PF or adding an additional Backup Big Man like Foster.

    We all know that the Frontcourt needs to be upgraded....but that doesn't mean that the SG spot can't be upgraded at the same time. We have the means and the resources to do so....the question more is whether Bird thinks we need to do that or not.
    Not anymore now that he aquired Hill.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Not anymore now that he aquired Hill.
    I know that it's a matter of opinion...but I don't think that GH was acquired to be our Starting SG but the type of Guard that can run the Point as a Backup to DC that can also provide some solid defense at the PG spot. To me, he's the type of Player that Bird is looking for when it comes to having a really "strong and deep" bench....especially when it comes to adding depth as a Backup PG while playing some Backup SG minutes.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    ...IF Bird thinks that there should be an upgrade to the Wing Spots....especially the Starting SG spot...

    Then my answer would be no Bird doesn't think so and I'd agree. I'd give the keys to Paul George and see where he goes as the starting 2 guard. To me, its time well invested.

    I see Paul as the best perimeter defender, a very smart and intuitive defender at such a young age. I like his shot, just needs to extend range. I like his demeanor, not cocky, but very confident. I like his ability with the ball, just needs to tighten handles quite a bit. I like his willingness to pass and rebound and run the break. I like that he listens to coaches and players giving him advice. I like his athleticism, work ethic, persona in an interview....

    I think you need to spoon feed Paul major minutes and responsibility and see what he can do, since his ceiling is high, imo. I guess if Jason Richardson wanted to come in and work for cheap you'd for take a talented player, but even in that scenario, I'd want PG to get 24 plus minutes a night.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Then my answer would be no Bird doesn't think so
    Noone here knows what Bird is thinking.
    We can only wonder and speculate what he should think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I guess if Jason Richardson wanted to come in and work for cheap you'd for take a talented player, but even in that scenario, I'd want PG to get 24 plus minutes a night.
    The key is that it's completely realistic. Those are the minutes that Rush/Dahntay/Lance would get in current rotation at 2 and 3.

    PS: I wouldn't think Bird would target J-Rich, but that's beside the point.

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