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Thread: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

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    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    We have just landed George Hill in a trade, yeah. But, Bird said that he wants to have the best bench in the league. What if that means he wants Paul George to slide to the bench to make a Lance/Hill/George trio off the bench? Do any of you guys think that is a possibility, or do you think we are set there? If not, who do you think we'll go after?

    The reason I am asking this is because of Bird's comment about him wanting the Pacers to have the best bench in the league. I don't think we can sign a backup three without breaking the bank (Signing a guy like Tayshaun or Battier to expensive contracts), so I am wondering if anyone else shares the idea that Bird wants to go Starting SG/Hill and Granger/George? Obviously George or Hill would be losing some minutes along the way, but as long as we have the best depth in the league, isn't that a very good thing?

    Say that we get a shooting guard such as Crawford, Mayo, etc.. Who's main objection is to get the ball in the basket. He plays around 28-30 minutes, Hill gets 10-15 minutes behind him, and he gets 10-15 minutes at backup point. Granger gets 35 minutes, and George gets 13 minutes behind him, and the scrap minutes as the two so that he gets more than plenty of time to develop (I am one of George's biggest fans so I'm not throwing him under the bus). Wouldn't that be a great thing?

    Just wondering and trying to circulate some discussion. Who would we go after? A young guy like OJ Mayo or Marcus Thornton, or a vet like Jamal Crawford, Jason Richardson, Ray Allen in a trade if BOS were to blow it up, or even Vince Carter?

    Or are we set?

    I think that an offseason in which we acquire Hill, a starting two who can fill it up big time for us, get Lance straightened out, and sign either David West or Carl Landry, meanwhile having enough money to potentially go after a big time free agent next summer, is a home run off-season.
    Last edited by BringJackBack; 07-30-2011 at 06:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I know that many's opinion will differ from mine....but I think that we should go after a solid Starting SG that can be a very reliable and consistent Scorer and push PG and GH to the 2nd unit.

    Although some may prefer JCraw...IMHO....he's to streaky and not the prototypical SG that I'd prefer to have on the roster.

    My 1st choice would be JRich and then ( my dark horse 2nd choice ) Reggie Williams. I know that some think that PG or even GH should be that Starting SG....but Bird said that he wanted one of the deepest and strongest Bench in the league. IMHO...pushing PG and GH to the 2nd unit would do that.

    Imagine a 9 man rotation of DC/??JRich??/Granger/??West??/Hibbert/PG/GH/Hansbrough/??Foster?? , IMHO...a very solid 9 man rotation.
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    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I believe Bird would add a tall wing. It may be Dunleavy or (if a better opportunity presents itself) someone else. Iguodala would be the obvious target with 3 years left.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I have no problem if Bird goes after yet another wing, the only thing I ask for is that he is a two-way player. A player that plays both offense and defense. Paul George and George Hill are exceptional when it comes to this, and Roy and Danny are getting there. If we can get another two way player who can score a little bit better, like Jason Richardson, we would be set to have a very exciting season ahead of us (But we still have to add a starting four)... of course, whenever that next season is.
    ...

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    at this point, i think bird is looking for bigs. unless a starter quality wing offered to work for the vet's min, there is little chance the pacer FO would be interested. george hill is going to be the starter at the 2 and given a chance to show he is the pacer's best player. lance will be the backup PG with a good chance to be the starter by the end of next season. george hill will be the backup. danny is the 3. i just don't see any minutes available unless/until some of the other wings now on the roster are gone.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    With Collison and Granger playing big minutes, our perimeter D is not that good. That became clear when the only thing that slowed down Derrick Rose was putting Paul George on him. I would be hesitant to add yet another average (at best)defensive player next to Tyler, Granger, Collison and Hibbert...each who are better offensively than defensively.

    Also, I hope Paul is ready for the full time gig. He is likely to make the normal sophomore jump in productivity and, if so, he may be better than any other option we have available on the free agent market when you factor in his stellar D.

    Finally, we will have a strong enough bench. The focus should be on putting the best team on the floor and best rotations. IOW, how do these players fit together? I think Paul fits very well in the starting unit because he complements them very well.

    That will allow Lance and George Hill to play on the second unit. Lance will need a player like George to guard the other team's PG on the other end. George is more of a SG on offense and Lance is more of a PG. It could be an outstanding combination off the bench. JMHO.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I'm with you, BnG. Good read on the situation.

    I wouldn't turn down a high-quality wing that doesn't cost us a core piece, but I'd be fine with starting Danny-Paul-Collison and bringing Inferno-Lance-Hill off the bench. Or maybe this is the year Brandon gets it together.
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    Member OakMoses's Avatar
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    Default

    It's a bit of a numbers game. Right now we have 11 players under contract, 9 of which play the 1, 2, or 3, unless you consider Posey a big (I consider him nothing.). We need at least 5 bigs, preferably 6. I think Bird would like to add a wing, but he needs to move Rush, Jones, Posey, or Price to do it.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    A three winged Bird?

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    I believe Bird would add a tall wing. It may be Dunleavy.

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    Rooting My Family 2 Glory CooperManning's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I'd be disappointed if we added another wing, I don't think it's necessary.

    PG/SG - Hill, Stephenson
    SG - Dahntay, Rush
    SG/SF - George
    SF - Granger, Posey

    If there aren't any major injuries, there's hardly enough minutes to go around as it is. We're not the type of team that needs to add one more wing to put us in championship contention, so I don't see the point of adding one right now. Save the money, see what we have, and make additions next off-season if we need to.

    If there was some killer FA that would be a perfect fit this year, I'd consider it, but I don't see it. I like J-Rich, but he's more or less in ring chase mode. If we were to overpay and get him, whose minutes take a hit? Because you pretty much have to play J-Rich 30 minutes at the 2 (played 34/g last year for Orlando). Assume Granger gets 36, so that leaves 30 wing minutes. Give 20 to PG and 10 to Hill I guess. It might work for a season, if DC is getting ~32 and Hill is getting the other 16 at the 1. That leaves no time for Lance, Rush, or Dahntay though. What happens after the first season when we want to play Paul George more than 20 minutes a game? Sit J-Rich and his sizable contract on the bench? I just think the money would be better spent at the 4/5. Adding J-Rich or a similar 2 makes us what, almost as good as the Hawks? A step up, no doubt, but ultimately I'd say a stunt to our growth.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I think it all depends if we trade one or multiple of our wings now for a quality big man.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Having the best bench in the NBA is useless if you dont have a great starting 5 that play great in your system and play together.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    The wing rotation is good enough. The frontcourt isn't. The Bulls were a first seed with great defense,great rebounding,and mediocre offense. The Pacers were an 8th seed with mediocre all of the above. If we get a lead rebounder,this team does considerably better.
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Why does the discussion have to turn to power forwards everytime?
    It's not an "either or" proposition. We are more than able to add a PF and still keep looking.

    Tunnel vision is generally a bad thing in management.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I think it's more of a priority than finding a starting wing. We have starting quality wings.
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by BringJackBack View Post
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    Say that we get a shooting guard such as Crawford, Mayo, etc.. Who's main objection is to get the ball in the basket. He plays around 28-30 minutes, Hill gets 10-15 minutes behind him, and he gets 10-15 minutes at backup point. Granger gets 35 minutes, and George gets 13 minutes behind him, and the scrap minutes as the two so that he gets more than plenty of time to develop (I am one of George's biggest fans so I'm not throwing him under the bus). Wouldn't that be a great thing?
    paul isn't going to develop the way we want with those minutes. he's the future of the franchise. if we get crawford or mayo, i think paul should start over either one. i really hope we dont resign dunleavy. he's a great guy, but doesnt fit into the future plans of this team. brandon rush is all but gone. that leaves us with d. jones, lance, PG, and geoge hill. i think we're set at the two spot. something i've been thinking about is the three spot. we have granger and PG, but with paul starting at the two, who else do we have to back up granger?
    Last edited by adamscb; 07-30-2011 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    Why does the discussion have to turn to power forwards everytime?
    It's not an "either or" proposition. We are more than able to add a PF and still keep looking.

    Tunnel vision is generally a bad thing in management.
    Probably because PF (and C for that matter) is our thinnest position right now. We only have Hibbert and Hansbrough under contract right now.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Probably because PF (and C for that matter) is our thinnest position right now. We only have Hibbert and Hansbrough under contract right now.
    Ohh really? I guess I just have this weird approach where I want to look at quality, not only number of bodies.

    We don't have an above average starter other than Danny.
    Moreover, we have only 3 wings that deserve to get significant minutes on a deep playoff team, and one of them will play big minutes as a point guard. S
    o while a starting 4 is a priority, I don't see why Bird should pass opportunities to upgrade wings.

    Especially when we have a ton of cap to pursue several targets.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    Ohh really? I guess I just have this weird approach where I want to look at quality, not only number of bodies.

    We don't have an above average starter other than Danny.
    Moreover, we have only 3 wings that deserve to get significant minutes on a deep playoff team, and one of them will play big minutes as a point guard. S
    o while a starting 4 is a priority, I don't see why Bird should pass opportunities to upgrade wings.

    Especially when we have a ton of cap to pursue several targets.
    Probably because Hibbert and Hansbrough can't play 48 MPG. That's just my two cents.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I still like a

    DC/Hill
    PG/Hill
    DG/PG

    rotation for the 1-3. Throw in a little Lance, Rush, or DJ as needed and I think we are pretty solid. Like others said, 4 and 5 are what we need most.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    Probably because Hibbert and Hansbrough can't play 48 MPG. That's just my two cents.
    I see you can't comprehend the "several targets" part. But I'm confused how you get stuck. So I guess I'll leave it at that and blame my ability to write.

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    I see you can't comprehend the "several targets" part. But I'm confused how you get stuck. So I guess I'll leave it at that and blame my ability to write.
    No...I read it, but then I thought...upgrading or going after "serveral targets" at the wing spot would totally defeat the purpose of acquiring George Hill on draft night. With Paul George at the SG spot, what more do you want, or are you in that small camp that wants Paul George to come off the bench to "give us a spark"?

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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    would totally defeat the purpose of acquiring George Hill
    So we aquired Hill to only play on the wing? Well, I disagree. I assume he'll do the same thing he did in San Antonio. He'll take a good share of minutes at 1 and 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksuttonjr76 View Post
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    With Paul George at the SG spot, what more do you want
    What more could I want from a starting shooting guard?
    Man... Unless George takes a huge leap forward, how about a lot more?
    Aren't you overrating George's current game "a little bit"?
    George is years away from his prime.
    He was nowhere near an above average starter this season.
    I'd be perfectly fine with a quality veteran wing who could start at 2 while George keeps developing.

    And even if it's not a starter (a good wing would probably take moving Posey&co to make some room)...
    Ideally, you want at least 3 quality wings in the rotation. With Hill playing the backup 1 a lot, we maybe have 2.5. That's assuming good consistent play from George.
    After that, it's a poo-poo platter of Rushs and Dahntays who are bound to get good minutes right now.

    I'd salute Bird if he attempts to clean the house and bring a quality veteran wing. Whether a starter or a good backup.

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  38. #25
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does anybody else wonder if Bird wants another wing? Or are we all set?

    I don't think we have a need at SG. Yes, we can do better than Rush and Dunleavy on the free agent market. But I don't think we can really beat the George brothers.

    George Hill is really a SG and if Lance plays much GH will play 90% of his minutes at SG. That will leave 25 or 30 minutes for the starter. Paul already showed...as a rookie...that he can guard the MVP of the league very well. Then you have to factor in that a second year player usually develops considerably in preparation for their second year. That happened with Granger and Hibbert, for example.

    Then you look at the options. Who is really going to be available AND add much more? JRich, a 30 year old vet, has seen his numbers go downhill as he's bounced around the league the last 4 years. ...and his numbers are similar to a pretty inexperienced George Hill's on a per minute basis. You really have to question how much (if any) JRich would add to the Pacers next year in comparison to the George brothers.

    Is it possible a free agent SG could help us? Sure. The question though is what is more likely? This might depend on where you think Paul George will be this winter. I think he was supremely confident as a rookie which is half the battle. He has every tool it takes to be a great player. It's time to step back and watch IMHO....

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