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Thread: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

  1. #51

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I'm not trying to say it's a feather in his cap. I'm saying that this idea that we only draft position players, and not draft players that help on areas of weakness is bunk.

    Just because some of them haven't panned out, like planned, doesn't mean that they haven't tried addressing those areas, which is what Bball is trying to say.

    The Colts have drafted quite a few OL, and not DL. Jerry Hughes is the perfect example. He's more of a run stopping DE. But oh God, everyone's upset that he plays the same position as Freeney and Mathis.

    So we Colts fans ***** about run stopping, Polian goes out and drafts a DE that is supposed to help stop the run, and now people ***** that he plays the same position as Freeny/Mathis.

    It's a no win situation. And then all this is proof that Polian doesn't care enough.

    It gets old.
    Well theres one way to stop the complaining and thats by stopping the run and being half way decent in the running game.

    You honestly believe we drafted Hughes because he could stop the run? The guy was a duel threat but if he couldn't get to the QB on passing downs no way would we have taken him in the first round. By the way Ricardo Matthews was that pick to stop the run in 2010 not Hughes. Matthews is now or backup NT yaa!

    I think the main issue that I have is that it was a luxury pick when we had other pressing needs that could have been addressed. By in large though I didn't mind the pick as long as the other needs are addressed like another NT on the team.

    We have like 5 three technique DT's on the team and one legit NT. I personally just can't understad that way of thinking. Its not like the base tampa 2 defense doesn't ask for NT depth. Even the one we have is mediocre at best.

    Hopefully Polain gets another NT and all is well but the best time to have done that was in the draft and during the recent FA frenzy.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Well theres one way to stop the complaining and thats by stopping the run and being half way decent in the running game.
    No, the *****ing will just transform into a different area. You don't think Steelers fans complain? Or Pats fans?

    At one time everyone just wanted a superbowl. Now that they have one, they want multiple.

    Some people can't be satisfied.

  4. #53

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No, the *****ing will just transform into a different area. You don't think Steelers fans complain? Or Pats fans?

    At one time everyone just wanted a superbowl. Now that they have one, they want multiple.

    Some people can't be satisfied.
    Well some complaints are more warranted than others. Being terrible in run defense for years and not addressing it through the draft or FA's is just asking for it.

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  6. #54
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Except the fact that the Colts have signed FA players, and drafted players to address being horrible on the run.

    You listed some yourself.

  7. #55

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Except the fact that the Colts have signed FA players, and drafted players to address being horrible on the run.

    You listed some yourself.
    The last time we seriously tried to address the problem was when we won the superbowl, go figure. Booger cost the Colts a second round pick and he was well worth it but thats 4 years removed and we haven't addressed it since with adequate players. Its fair to be critical of glaring and persistent weaknesses of the team that only one man can fix.

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  9. #56
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    My exact point.

    You went from saying the Colts haven't done anything, to they've done stuff, just not enough.

    It went from "Manning needs to win a superbowl," to "Manning needs to win another superbowl." All the evidence you need is right here in this very thread.

    People like to complain. If they would have went out and got Wilfork somehow, people would still *****. "They need better CBs." "They need a better OL" "Freeney gets downfield too fast, they need a DE who can support the run."

    Every team has it's weaknesses, and every fan base *****es about them constantly. The Colts aren't any different.

  10. #57
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    For a contending team the Colts have been traditionally very slow to address weaknesses, let alone have shown more of a band-aid approach then actually looking to address the problem straight ahead.

    When you can't stop the run, let alone can't run yourself, you're not going to win many championships because the other teams can kill you in time of possession. It doesn't matter how good Peyton is if he's on the bench and what few possessions there are have to be nearly perfect because you might not see the ball again.

    More importantly, it's not that we can't run per se.... it's that we can't pick up 3rd and short.

    Noticing this isn't being a bandwagon fan... It's pointing out reality.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  12. #58

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    My exact point.

    You went from saying the Colts haven't done anything, to they've done stuff, just not enough.

    It went from "Manning needs to win a superbowl," to "Manning needs to win another superbowl." All the evidence you need is right here in this very thread.

    People like to complain. If they would have went out and got Wilfork somehow, people would still *****. "They need better CBs." "They need a better OL" "Freeney gets downfield too fast, they need a DE who can support the run."

    Every team has it's weaknesses, and every fan base *****es about them constantly. The Colts aren't any different.
    What?

    Since when did I say they did nothing. Gesshh by your logic I could drag you out there and say play NT. Hey look everyone I tried to address the problem. It didn't work but hey I tried.."

    You miss the whole point of why people complain about run defense. Either Polain fixes it or he doesn't. Saying you address the problem when you really haven't is just lying to your fan base.

    The last time Polain tried to address the run problem was with Booger. The last 4 years have been smoke and mirrors. Nothing really was done and the results were on the field to prove it. I can accept a miss draft pick like Pitcock but just because you miss in one draft doesn't mean you never invest a high draft pick again at that position.

    Case in point Polain has invested 2 high draft picks (round 3 or higher) in DT's since 1998. TO me only Pitcock was an actual NT and Tripplet was the other pick.

    Thats 14 drafts and only 2 high draft picks at an important positon. Hey if Polain sucks at drafting NT's then I am fine with trading a second rounder for a Booger type player if that means we get to stop the run and go to the superbowl.

    Saying Polain has tried to address the run defense is just false. He hasn't tried for the last 4 seasons because like everyone else I know when somebodies actually trying and when their not. It doesn't take a career in football to know this.

    I agree with your point that all teams have weaknesses but they don't have persistent weaknesses in the same area every year for the last 4 years. Last year the Packers sucked at running the ball but they haven't sucked for years and years.

    I can accept certian weaknesses given the defensive or offensive system ran. Case in point I think we can get away with not being a top 15 team in running the ball because of Manning's passing ability.

    The main reason I harp on the run defense is because the tampa 2 needs a legit nose tackle. Not a pot smoking turd or a practice squad throw away. When your DE's are fast and small to get to the Qb then you need a NT to control the line. Likewise the linebackers are also light weight and can't shed blocks. Having a NT covers up mutilple weaknesses at different positons on the defense and we've seen that proven 4 years ago.

    The man problem I have is that you act like this is unreasonable to complain about and I really don't understand that.

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  14. #59
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Noticing isn't. Elevating your expectations into thinking the Colts should win multiple SBs and then getting upset when reality sets in, is what makes "bandwagon" fit.

    If fans can't appreciate this time in the history of the Colts, what are they gonna do when/if the Colts become the Bengals for a while? A team that should be good, but fails. (I'm saying Bengals, without the off-field problems)

    How are they going to stay around and remain dedicated fans? I doubt they do.


    Like I've said from the beginning. There are a lot of different things that I disagree with Polian about. I think we were pretty spoiled with Edge being in the backfield, we didn't realize just how bad the OL was, because he was good enough to make up for it.

    But at the same time, Addai has a lot of blame for why we can't convert on 3rd and 2 as well. He doesn't read the holes very quickly and he makes too many cuts in the backfield. Which is why Brown is a nice change of pace. He gets the ball and starts running downhill. He might only get 2-3-4 yards, but he rarely gets caught in the backfield, unlike Addai.


    It will be interesting to see how Colts fans react when this time comes to an end. I seriously doubt we will be like the Browns, who have a rabbid fanbase regardless of their W-L.

    But I think they're starting to go in a better direction. From what I'm hearing Constanza, I mean Costanzo, is a pretty damn good player. Hopefully we see a better OL/DL in the future. I don't think Manning will be able to put both sides of the ball on his shoulders much longer.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Well some complaints are more warranted than others. Being terrible in run defense for years and not addressing it through the draft or FA's is just asking for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    What?

    Since when did I say they did nothing.
    Uh.....right here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Well some complaints are more warranted than others. Being terrible in run defense for years and not addressing it through the draft or FA's is just asking for it.
    There's a difference in not addressing it, and not addressing it adequately.

  16. #61

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Uh.....right here.



    There's a difference in not addressing it, and not addressing it adequately.
    LOL. Both have the same results which is meaningless losses that are preventable.

    I always thought the word address means to deal with, as in to deal with the problem.. If you still have the problem after 4 years then I guess you haven't dealt with the problem which shows incompetency which is being pointed out fairly by posters here. I am not sure why you have a problem with that but each to his own I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    I think we were pretty spoiled with Edge being in the backfield, we didn't realize just how bad the OL was, because he was good enough to make up for it.

    But at the same time, Addai has a lot of blame for why we can't convert on 3rd and 2 as well. He doesn't read the holes very quickly and he makes too many cuts in the backfield.
    THe o-line has changed so much since Edge I can't even begin to argue with this point.

    I wonder who drafted Addai or any of the O-linemen we have now?
    Last edited by Gamble1; 08-11-2011 at 02:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    LOL. Both have the same results which is meaningless losses that are preventable.

    I always thought the word address means to deal with, as in to deal with the problem.. If you still have the problem after 4 years then I guess you haven't dealt with the problem which shows incompetency that is being pointed out fairly by posters here. I am not sure why you have a problem with that but each to his own I guess.
    So the only way to attack a problem is with one method? Bob Sanders in the lineup completely changes the defensive running game. It's not a coincidence that the only year he was healthy in the playoffs, is the year the Colts won the SB.

    Why would you go out and spend money, or draft picks, when the solution is already sitting on your bench?

    Yes, hindsight is 20/20, and they should have known he'd never be healthy. But when you're in the moment, and he keeps having different injuries that keep knocking him out, you can't plan for that.

    Once again, just because you don't agree with their solution, doesn't mean they don't recognize the problem and aren't working on it.

    It's like turning in your homework, and all the answers are wrong. The teacher isn't going to accuse you of not doing your homework, but they will tell you that you're not understanding it correctly.

    You said they weren't addressing the problem. I can make a pretty long list of players that says otherwise.


    Is it semantics? Sure. But all we have to interact with each other is the words we choose. If you say that they haven't addressed those weaknesses, then that's how I read it.

  18. #63

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Why would you go out and spend money, or draft picks, when the solution is already sitting on your bench?

    You said they weren't addressing the problem. I can make a pretty long list of players that says otherwise.


    Is it semantics? Sure. But all we have to interact with each other is the words we choose. If you say that they haven't addressed those weaknesses, then that's how I read it.
    All we have is words,,, Indeed...

    I just define address differently than you which is fine. I don't think they have addressed the problem in the last 4 years and the last time I checked they have to have 11 guys on defense so by your way of thinking they would have always addressed a problem no matter what position it is. Anyway it goes its a pointless arguement because the problem still persists and causes us to lose games.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 08-11-2011 at 03:08 PM.

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  20. #64

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    For a contending team the Colts have been traditionally very slow to address weaknesses, let alone have shown more of a band-aid approach then actually looking to address the problem straight ahead.

    When you can't stop the run, let alone can't run yourself, you're not going to win many championships because the other teams can kill you in time of possession. It doesn't matter how good Peyton is if he's on the bench and what few possessions there are have to be nearly perfect because you might not see the ball again.

    More importantly, it's not that we can't run per se.... it's that we can't pick up 3rd and short.

    Noticing this isn't being a bandwagon fan... It's pointing out reality.

    Now now stop right there you don't want to be accused of being a bandwagoner or less of a fan if you actually state the obvious about how management operates..

    You know you should be glad this team does what it does even if you know that they could be better but refuse to even address the actual problem until its too late.

    *snort*

  21. #65
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Maybe if people would stop talking in absolutes, like saying the Colts don't do anything to address a problem, this conversation wouldn't have taken the course it did.

    But then again, being the winningest team in a decade with two superbowl apperances is only "mediocore" so I guess I shouldn't expect people to live in reality of the situation.


    I can throw out veiled barbs too, if you want.

  22. #66

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Maybe if people would stop talking in absolutes, like saying the Colts don't do anything to address a problem, this conversation wouldn't have taken the course it did.

    But then again, being the winningest team in a decade with two superbowl apperances is only "mediocore" so I guess I shouldn't expect people to live in reality of the situation.


    I can throw out veiled barbs too, if you want.


    They don't until its near the end(like the last contract of Manning's career) never mind that even Stevie Wonder could see this team has failed to stop the run for years now amongst other things.

    Winningest team? Regular season sure but you're remembered for SB wins there's a difference with how the Cowboys are viewed versus the Bills, Packers and Niners of the 90's. Some of us wish the Colts were in that conversation but we have to face reality they aren't unless they manage to win another one. They're the level of the Packers at this rate.

    And your "barbs" aren't veiled just mediocre

  23. #67
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    The fact that you think that being on the same level as the Packers is a failure shows just how unrealistic your expectations are.

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