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Thread: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

  1. #26
    I have a Member xBulletproof's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Its the playoffs. You're not playing the Detroit Lions anymore. Of course we are going to be close to .500 ball.

    I would love to see most teams playoff record since Manning rookie year. Ill probably look that up tonight. Common sense says we won't be alone in hovering around .500.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Peyton has truly spoiled some of us.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by xBulletproof View Post
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    Its the playoffs. You're not playing the Detroit Lions anymore. Of course we are going to be close to .500 ball.

    I would love to see most teams playoff record since Manning rookie year. Ill probably look that up tonight. Common sense says we won't be alone in hovering around .500.
    The only way you're not hovering around .500 is if you go to the Super Bowl repeatedly and miss the playoffs in off years. Take the Eagles for example, they are the epitome of "not going one and done". Andy Reid is 10-9, and that's with them losing in the NFC championship round four times and the Super Bowl once.

    Bill Cowher, who some of the detractors in the thread want because his team plays "winning football", is 12-9 and is only over .500 because of the 4-0 record of his last playoff run.

    Going outside Bellichick and the Pats, the other winning coaches are guys like Mike Tomlin (5-2), Sean Payton (4-2), Mike McCarthy (5-2). Those three show Super Bowl runs and missing the playoffs over a short stretch gives you a winning record.

    So yeah the playoff record is disheartening, but it doesn't tell the whole story. The record is a product of the young team overachieving early in Peyton's career, all the run ins with the Pats, and making the playoffs just about every year.
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    I'm not saying that our playoff record should be the same percentage as a 13-3 record.

    What I am saying, is that we have a *losing* playoff record in the Manning era. 9-10 should not be acceptable to anyone. Almost half of our Manning-era playoff wins came in 2006-07 when we had to win 4 games to win the Super Bowl.

    Big difference between say 12-10 and 9-10. All I'm saying is that there have been way too many one and dones. I'm not asking for an 80% win rate, but I would like to see one over 50%.

    You're right cdash, Manning does spoil us. That's why we want to achieve the maximum possible in his career here. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say we really have achieved the maximum possible with one of the greatest QB's ever?

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Buffalo - 0-2
    Miami - 3-5
    New England - 13-4
    Jets - 6-6

    Baltimore - 7-5
    Cincy - 0-1
    Cleveland - 0-1
    Pittsburgh - 10-4

    Houston - 0-0
    Jacksonville - 3-4
    Tennessee - 6-5

    Denver - 4-4
    Kansas City - 0-2
    Oakland - 4-3
    San Diego - 3-5

    Dallas - 0-5
    Giants - 6-5
    Eagles - 10-7
    Redskins - 2-3

    Bears - 2-3
    Lions - 0-1
    Green Bay - 3-6
    Minnesota - 5-6

    Atlanta - 4-4
    Carolina - 5-3
    New Orleans - 5-3
    Tampa Bay - 3-6

    Arizona 5-3
    St. Louis - 6-4
    San Fran - 2-3
    Seattle - 4-6

    ===============

    This is my own count off Football Database, so I may be off a game or two on someone. And it doesn't count 2010 because their pages didn't show that yet. Who isn't around .500? New England, Pittsburgh, and partially the Eagles. Everyone else is. Yet a lot of the teams like Tenn had 6 wins, but 4 of them were in 1 year. Either way, other than New England and Pitt, I don't see anyone really beyond us.

    If we didn't make the playoffs every year, our record would be better. Like Tenn, they're above .500 but only because they won the Super Bowl 1 year with 4 wins. Then the other years they made the playoffs they were booted quickly. Unlike most teams, we're in the playoffs every year. What a horrible problem to have.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    You're right cdash, Manning does spoil us. That's why we want to achieve the maximum possible in his career here. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say we really have achieved the maximum possible with one of the greatest QB's ever?
    I don't think anyone is happy with a one and done in the playoffs, but man you have to step back and look at how truly lucky we have been to be in the playoffs every single year and have a 10 win team every single year. We have a Super Bowl victory. That's a wild, resounding success to me and almost any franchise would be thrilled with that sort of success. Would another Super Bowl win or two be nice? Absolutely. But I'm not going to be upset about anything when we have a title and are consistently good. I'd kill for one Pacers NBA title.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Say what you will about managing expectations, but there is a very sound argument that Peyton Manning is pound for pound the best individual talent ever to play the quarterback position. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but if you're just looking at individual talent Peyton certainly belongs in the GOAT conversation. In that context, I don't think anyone is being insane or even unreasonable for hoping for more than one Super Bowl during his career here. I'm incredibly grateful for winning one SB, but given that opportunities for a city like Indy to get a player the caliber of Peyton are few and far between, I will be pretty disappointed if we don't win another one while he's still a viable talent.

    New England and Pittsburgh go beast mode in the playoffs and the Colts do not, that is a statistical fact. Is it greedy to want something just somewhat resembling that with you've got a potential GOAT on your team for 15 years? Under normal conditions I realize that it would be, but these aren't normal times for the Colts.
    Last edited by idioteque; 08-07-2011 at 07:05 PM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Dolphins fans had a guy in the GOAT conversation, and I bet they would have killed for just one Super Bowl ring. It takes a lot more than one great player to win a title. I want more, but I can't say I am going to be terribly disappointed if we don't win another in Peyton's time. I'm already eternally grateful for everything he has done for this franchise.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Big difference between say 12-10 and 9-10. All I'm saying is that there have been way too many one and dones. I'm not asking for an 80% win rate, but I would like to see one over 50%.
    That's kind my point, if they Colts win the Super Bowl this year, they would then be at your criteria (either 12-10 or 13-10). The Colts could go the AFC championship game the next couple of years and lose and they'd be right around 500 (like the Eagles). IMO, you're focusing way too much on the WL record...
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by idioteque View Post
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    Say what you will about managing expectations, but there is a very sound argument that Peyton Manning is pound for pound the best individual talent ever to play the quarterback position. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with it, but if you're just looking at individual talent Peyton certainly belongs in the GOAT conversation. In that context, I don't think anyone is being insane or even unreasonable for hoping for more than one Super Bowl during his career here. I'm incredibly grateful for winning one SB, but given that opportunities for a city like Indy to get a player the caliber of Peyton are few and far between, I will be pretty disappointed if we don't win another one while he's still a viable talent.

    New England and Pittsburgh go beast mode in the playoffs and the Colts do not, that is a statistical fact. Is it greedy to want something just somewhat resembling that with you've got a potential GOAT on your team for 15 years? Under normal conditions I realize that it would be, but these aren't normal times for the Colts.

    That's it exactly a player like Manning wouldn't be in Indianapolis he'd be in a bigger market or a storied franchise(which the Colts were before they came here)

    You want to make the most of him while he's here and this organization to me has not I find it incredibly disappointing there's no guarantee we'll ever see something like this again with the Colts.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Wow, I remeber when the knock on Peyton was that he hadn't won 1 SB. In all honesty, I believe that he should have at least 3 already.

    To this day I think Vanderjagt missed on purpose in 05 against the Steelers. We would have murdered the Seahawks in the SB

    And if Freeney doesnt roll his ankle in the Jet game in 09, Drew Brees would have been eating turf all game just like he did in the first half of that SB

    2006 was my greatest glory as a football fan and I refuse to let some liquored up, idiot poster diminish that.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    ........... I find it incredibly disappointing there's no guarantee we'll ever see something like this again with the Colts.
    Just as there's no guarantee that NE will ever see another Brady.

    Just as there's no guarantee that SF will ever see another Montana.

    Just as there's no guarantee that Dallas will ever see another Aikman.

    There's a trend here. Enjoy it while we can. 31 teams and their fans end the season with a loss.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    I'm not saying that our playoff record should be the same percentage as a 13-3 record.

    What I am saying, is that we have a *losing* playoff record in the Manning era. 9-10 should not be acceptable to anyone. Almost half of our Manning-era playoff wins came in 2006-07 when we had to win 4 games to win the Super Bowl.

    Big difference between say 12-10 and 9-10. All I'm saying is that there have been way too many one and dones. I'm not asking for an 80% win rate, but I would like to see one over 50%.

    You're right cdash, Manning does spoil us. That's why we want to achieve the maximum possible in his career here. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say we really have achieved the maximum possible with one of the greatest QB's ever?
    I think you are underestimating how hard it is to win in the NFL. Look at all the teams that just suck year in and year out, not even coming close to the playoffs. Quite frankly the Patriots winning 3 in 4 years kinda ruined how hard it is for some people because they made it look easy, but it really isn't. And the fact that they haven't won in how many seasons now can attest to that. For the Colts to continuously make the playoffs like they have is incredible. And quite frankly anything you do in the playoffs short of a SB win is a failure. I can tell you, as an Eagles fan, going to the NFC championship and losing it 4 outta 5 times is much more disappointing than a one and done.

    The Colts are 9-10 in the span that the Eagles are 10-7, yet that one season where Indy won it all, well hell, I would gladly trade everything for it.

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  24. #39

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by LA_Confidential View Post
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    Wow, I remeber when the knock on Peyton was that he hadn't won 1 SB. In all honesty, I believe that he should have at least 3 already.

    To this day I think Vanderjagt missed on purpose in 05 against the Steelers. We would have murdered the Seahawks in the SB


    And if Freeney doesnt roll his ankle in the Jet game in 09, Drew Brees would have been eating turf all game just like he did in the first half of that SB

    2006 was my greatest glory as a football fan and I refuse to let some liquored up, idiot poster diminish that.


    Really? Based on what?

    If he makes it he's a hero missing it pretty much ended his career not only with the Colts but the NFL in general.


    There's a lot of what ifs in this world but at the end of the day we still lost those games we should've won. Winning the SB the following season made me deal with that 2005 loss a lot easily since we did end up winning the SB instead of going down as the Eagles of 2000s

    We're the Braves of the NFL instead.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    And people wonder why Indy is considered bandwagon fans.

    Suddenly, going to two SBs and winning one in 5 years isn't enough anymore. Amazing. Simply amazing.

  26. #41

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Did someone call Basketball Fan a liquired up poster?

    Getting back to the topic this years FA was like no other. YOu had cheap deals for quality guys across the board and the COlts did well in some areas but didn't captilaze fully on the FA market IMO. Of all the years to be ALL IN this year would be it.

    You have a chance at home field advantage and all we got was a old DT with bad knees, a LB who who barely made much of an impact last year as a starter and a backup quarterback who played for the Lions and ran out of bounds in the end zone causing a safety.

    I like that we resigned some of our players but overall this off season was a steal for a lot of teams and we pulled up short IMO.

    Edit: Did anybody realize that we have 1 real NT on our team? Be prepared to get run on again.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 08-09-2011 at 10:37 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And people wonder why Indy is considered bandwagon fans.

    Suddenly, going to two SBs and winning one in 5 years isn't enough anymore. Amazing. Simply amazing.


    Yeah that's it

    Has nothing to do with the emergence of Colts fans after Manning was drafted and the Colts were no longer a doormat of the league.

    The real test will be how many fans will be around when Manning retires.

    Once upon a time the Pacers were the toast of Indy

    Hard to believe they're barely second billing around here if that.

    Look its great they won an SB its what separates them from being the Eagles/Chargers

    However I can't say they're on the level of the Pats or Steelers either because they won more than one.

    And I think they could've been on that level that's the disappointment here.

    Why nobody seems to understand it is beyond me.

  29. #43
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    The issue with the Colts and their lone SB win isn't how great that is on it's own... it's how they've been held back from more opportunities by being thwarted by weaknesses that the front office doesn't seem to want to address.
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Um.....Don't want to address?

    Mike Pollack?? It's not like the Colts ignore the problems, like the OL and don't even try to address them like you just said. It's that they try to do patch work, like reaching for a guy like Mike Pollack. Or signing Corey Simon.

    Let's not act like they sit idly by, and keep drafting all WRs and RBs. They do try to address the weaknesses. They just do it half heartedly, because they don't see it as big of an issue as you do.

    Which is why Polian called out the OL, IMHO. It's not a matter of saying they couldn't do it, I think he was more pissed off they didn't. He thinks they had the ability, just didn't perform. When you're starting opinion is that they can, they just didn't, how you attack the problem is different.


    Did this become the Det. Lions messageboard during the lockout? Geesh.

  32. #45

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Um.....Don't want to address?

    Mike Pollack?? It's not like the Colts ignore the problems, like the OL and don't even try to address them like you just said. It's that they try to do patch work, like reaching for a guy like Mike Pollack. Or signing Corey Simon.

    Let's not act like they sit idly by, and keep drafting all WRs and RBs. They do try to address the weaknesses. They just do it half heartedly, because they don't see it as big of an issue as you do.

    Which is why Polian called out the OL, IMHO. It's not a matter of saying they couldn't do it, I think he was more pissed off they didn't. He thinks they had the ability, just didn't perform. When you're starting opinion is that they can, they just didn't, how you attack the problem is different.


    Did this become the Det. Lions messageboard during the lockout? Geesh.
    I give Polain a lot of credit for signing Simon because it was a very smart move that ended up not working out for reasons beyond his control. That type of stuff happens to all GM's so that doesn't bother me at all.

    Pollack if I remember right was drafted as insurance in case the Colts couldn't resign Saturday. So far he hasn't been a bust but he certainly hasn't been a big value to the team at this point. I think Polain doesn't reach for guys based on need. He drafted Pollack because he thought he could be the future center for this team but so far he has been wrong on that.

    Currently the Colts have one true NT on this team and a bunch of 3 technique DT's. This is ignoring the problem IMO. The Colts have been bad against the run for years now and teams game plan to beat us with it. Good teams don't ignore the lack of depth at a important postion that they are weak at.

    The dumb one liners like "we have to control our gaps and be discipline with our assignments" is for the birds. The Colts get blown off the line and lose games as a result because we lack quality depth and talent to which Polain is at fault. He gets all the kudos in the world for producing a top notch pass defense but if the Colts lose games because they can't stop the run then he is at fault.

    Whether they don't want to address the problem or lack the ability to do it doesn't matter to me. The Colts are one dimensional and lose games as a result and thats Polains fault.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Except the Colts have repeatedly said that Pollack will play OG, and not center, and the fact that he started 13 games last year at RG.

  35. #47

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Except the Colts have repeatedly said that Pollack will play OG, and not center, and the fact that he started 13 games last year at RG.
    Thats why its called insurance. THe fact that they were able to resign Saturday immediately meant that Pollack was going to be moved to Guard because we all know we didn't have great guards last year either.

    The same was done with Tarik Glen and Ugoh. They knew that the age of Glen and Saturday (contract) were putting the team at risk of having a gaping hole in an important position.

    They dodged a bullet by being able to resign Saturday which was mainly due to Harrisons realease and an unexpected 4 million increase in the salary cap. If that doesn't happen then we don't resign Saturday and we replace him with one of the 3 centers we drafted the year prior. In the case of Ugoh replacing Glen we took a bullet to the head.

    Its not uncommon to draft a guy to fill a hole a year ahead of time and this is what happened with Pollack. The hole just happened not to be their lucky for us.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 08-10-2011 at 11:54 AM.

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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Or they knew they would be able to sign Saturday, and thought Pollack would be a good fit at OG..... Not everything has to be some super secret plan. Could his versatility have some play? Probably. But you're sounding like the main reason he was brought it was to fill in a spot that they might have open. They need OL help in other areas too, and he helped fill those holes.

    If Saturday retired, or signed with another club, then sure he could slid over. But I don't think that was the plan, but rather an option.

  37. #49

    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Or they knew they would be able to sign Saturday, and thought Pollack would be a good fit at OG..... Not everything has to be some super secret plan. Could his versatility have some play? Probably. But you're sounding like the main reason he was brought it was to fill in a spot that they might have open. They need OL help in other areas too, and he helped fill those holes.

    If Saturday retired, or signed with another club, then sure he could slid over. But I don't think that was the plan, but rather an option.
    The ceiling for the salary cap wasn't known yet and they knew the projections didn't make it likely that they could resign him. The unexpected addition of 4 million was what did it and the Colts if I remember right confirmed this. Also I believe Saturday had serious consideration from the Steelers but because we up our offer with the 4 million making him one of the highest paid centers during that time gave us the ability to retain him. We drafted 3 centers in 2008 (the year prior) because the Colts had serious concerns about meeting the contract demands of a probowl center.

    Converting centers to guards is common place in the NFL especially if they can't make it as a center in the NFL which is exactly what happened to Pollack IMo. Converting guards to centers though is not very common and this is why we took 3 centers in the 2008 draft and not 3 guards.

    Edit: Even if we took Pollack to be guard its not like thats a feather in the cap of Pollain. The guy has been beaten out by multiple lower picks and hasn't helped the run offense very much.
    Last edited by Gamble1; 08-10-2011 at 12:32 PM.

  38. #50
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    Default Re: Kravitz: As usual, Colts lose in free agency but will win when it counts

    I'm not trying to say it's a feather in his cap. I'm saying that this idea that we only draft position players, and not draft players that help on areas of weakness is bunk.

    Just because some of them haven't panned out, like planned, doesn't mean that they haven't tried addressing those areas, which is what Bball is trying to say.

    The Colts have drafted quite a few OL, and not DL. Jerry Hughes is the perfect example. He's more of a run stopping DE. But oh God, everyone's upset that he plays the same position as Freeney and Mathis.

    So we Colts fans ***** about run stopping, Polian goes out and drafts a DE that is supposed to help stop the run, and now people ***** that he plays the same position as Freeny/Mathis.

    It's a no win situation. And then all this is proof that Polian doesn't care enough.

    It gets old.

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