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Thread: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sollozzo View Post
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    Or 11 like in 2008 when Brady missed the whole season......

    Would have easily gone to the playoffs in practically any other year. Not often that 11 wins leaves you on the outside looking in.
    They're the only team in NFL history, after it went to a 12 team playoff, to have 11 wins and not make the playoffs. Another year, besides that one, and they're in.

  2. #77

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    OK, I looked it up. USA Today has a nice database. When considering actual salaries rather than cap charges, the spreads are indeed larger.

    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team

    no 2010 data is there (uncapped year)

    2009 Colts were 19th in payroll. Saints (4th) won. Patriots were 25th in payroll.
    2008 Colts were 29th in payroll. Steelers (6th) won. Patriots were 30th.
    2007 Colts were 12th in payroll. Giants (32nd) won. Patriots were 2nd.
    2006 Colts were 1st in payroll & won, Patriots were 12th.
    2005 Colts were 23rd in payroll. Steelers (10th) won. Patriots were 7th.
    2004 Colts were 8th in payroll. Patriots (24th) won.
    2003 Colts were 23rd in payroll. Patriots (9th) won.
    2002 Colts were 15th in payroll. Tampa Bay (16th) won. Patriots were 31st.
    2001 Colts were 24th in payroll. Patriots (23rd) won.
    2000 Colts were 17th in payroll. Ravens won (13th). Patriots were 25th.


    So for a ten year period (the total of the USA Today database)
    The Colts were on average #17 in the NFL in payroll
    The NFL champion was on average #14 in the NFL in payroll
    The Patriots were on average #19 in the NFL in payroll


    bottom line: I seem some random fluctuations, two fairly frugal teams, not really indicating any inability of Indy to pay salaries necessary to contend
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 08-05-2011 at 05:44 PM.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    More to the point here, where were the Colts in that 15% range and how far were they behind the Lombardi trophy winners each year, to contend that Polian's hands were tied by finances?

    I would guess that the Colt's payroll would be equal to the NFL champion's payroll in most years.
    Thats not a simple question and I don't have a simple answer. I think everyone can agree its not all about how much you spend but how you spend it. How much bang for your buck matters most.

    The funny thing is that when the colts won the superbowl they were the highest paid team. The next year though the giants won it being the lowest paid team.

    Even though there are some exceptions to spending = winning formula I think most succesfully run teams end up spending in the upper 10 when they reach the superbowl. Personally I think looking at the salary in the year teams won the superbowl is not a good way to go about it. I think averaging the team salary from the year prior and the year after would give a better indication since there are so many ways a teams salary can change from year to year irregardless if any roster changes were made.

    The colts look to have averaged in the middle of overall team salaries. The steelers though seem to be in the upper 10 most years.

    The bang for your buck in the NFL really boils down to your system and the succesful people running or directing your franchise that can get the players for it. Personally i haven't liked the colts offensive and defensive systems overall. I think the system has limited the Colts as much as the players playing in it.

    OF course Polian didn't implement it but he did fire one of the best defensive minds in the game and by all accounts he is the most informed football minds running the show. Basically he went with the base cover 2 and got the players for it and I think that has gotten the Colts so far but for most people not far enough given the HOF quarterback on the team. Were his hands tied? I have no clue but the Colts haven't been in the top 10 in salaries most years.

    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda...ries/team/2005

  4. #79

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    regrading the Cassell 2008 season, last year we learned he is at least an average NFL QB.

    Still, 16-0 (100%) to 11-5 (68.75%) is quite a drop, in my opinion attributed mostly to the absence of one person. Personnel always changes some year-to-year, but by and large that team was intact. The next year the Patriots defensive youth movement began.

    A 31.25% drop in winning percentage would be like the Colts being 5-11 (31.25%) instead of 10-6 (62.5%) last year, which is probably in the ballpark of where they would have been without Peyton, assuming they would had even an average backup QB. Granted, with Painter, 5-11 might have been out of reach.

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  6. #80

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    regrading the Cassell 2008 season, last year we learned he is at least an average NFL QB.

    Still, 16-0 (100%) to 11-5 (68.75%) is quite a drop, in my opinion attributed mostly to the absence of one person. Personnel always changes some year-to-year, but by and large that team was intact. The next year the Patriots defensive youth movement began.

    A 31.25% drop in winning percentage would be like the Colts being 5-11 (31.25%) instead of 10-6 (62.5%) last year, which is probably in the ballpark of where they would have been without Peyton, assuming they would had even an average backup QB. Granted, with Painter, 5-11 might have been out of reach.
    The odds of a team going to back to back 16-0 seasons are really slim. Even with Brady and the rest of the team its hard for me to believe that they don't atleast lose one or two games in 08.

    There's no doubt in my mind that Peyton is more critical to the Colts than Brady is for the Pats and its not because the talent difference is great between the two QB's. By in large the colts have proven that they have had more of a one dimensional defense and offense than the pats. Its not something I prefer mind you but its the truth.

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  8. #81

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    OK, I looked it up. USA Today has a nice database. When considering actual salaries rather than cap charges, the spreads are indeed larger.

    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsda.../salaries/team

    no 2010 data is there (uncapped year)

    2009 Colts were 19th in payroll. Saints (4th) won. Patriots were 25th in payroll.
    2008 Colts were 29th in payroll. Steelers (6th) won. Patriots were 30th.
    2007 Colts were 12th in payroll. Giants (32nd) won. Patriots were 2nd.
    2006 Colts were 1st in payroll & won, Patriots were 12th.
    2005 Colts were 23rd in payroll. Steelers (10th) won. Patriots were 7th.
    2004 Colts were 8th in payroll. Patriots (24th) won.
    2003 Colts were 23rd in payroll. Patriots (9th) won.
    2002 Colts were 15th in payroll. Tampa Bay (16th) won. Patriots were 31st.
    2001 Colts were 24th in payroll. Patriots (23rd) won.
    2000 Colts were 17th in payroll. Ravens won (13th). Patriots were 25th.


    So for a ten year period (the total of the USA Today database)
    The Colts were on average #17 in the NFL in payroll
    The NFL champion was on average #14 in the NFL in payroll
    The Patriots were on average #19 in the NFL in payroll

    bottom line: I seem some random fluctuations, two fairly frugal teams, not really indicating any inability of Indy to pay salaries necessary to contend
    Slick I have a hard time comparing the 2000 nfl season to 2009. Over a 10 year period in the nfl so much has changed in the competitive landscape in regards to team salaries. For example in 2000 the salary difference between the number 17th highest paid team and the number 14th highest paid team was like $ 600,000. The difference ballooned very quickly to 5 million in 2009. In todays market thats the difference between a team with an impact player or a marginal backup.

    Rookie wage scales (an increase of 12% a year since 2000) impacted a lot of teams as well and forced them up to the top in overall team salary even though they weren't even close to being considered contenders.

    Certainly having a 6th round Hall of fame quarterback on his rookie contract doesn't hurt when you win your 3 superbowls. On a side note though NFL parity was the highest in 2002-2004 indicating that team salaries impacted less during this time period.

    In addition in 2008 and 2009 a lot of teams were getting prepared for the uncapped year of 2010 and the lockout. Some contending teams went for it and paid through the nose while others held back (Saints and Cowboys being examples).

    I guess the point in all this is that I would rather be the team with a 10 million dollar impact player with a higher team salary than the one without him during the one and done playoffs in a game that is alot of the times decided by 3 points.

  9. #82

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    Look at the top salaried teams though. More often than not, they did not even make the playoffs.

    Paying high salaries in the NFL doesn't mean you have better players. It means you have made some awful mistakes in giving out some lousy contracts, then often had to scramble to cover up holes left over by overpaying other guys as well, and even pull some cap shenanigans to accomplish it, which hurts the team in the long run.

    Healthy teams and healthy franchises seem to thrive in the 10-20 zone of salaries paid out.
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 08-08-2011 at 03:37 PM.

  10. #83

    Default Re: Does Peyton Deserve more $$$ Than Tom Brady?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
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    Look at the top salaried teams though. More often than not, they did not even make the playoffs.

    Paying high salaries in the NFL doesn't mean you have better players. It means you have made some awful mistakes in giving out some lousy contracts, then often had to scramble to cover up holes left over by overpaying other guys as well, and even pull some cap shenanigans to accomplish it, which hurts the team in the long run.

    Healthy teams and healthy franchises seem to thrive in the 10-20 zone of salaries paid out.
    Well like I said before there are defiantly some exceptions to the paying = winning formula but overall it seems to be true for those teams that make the superbowl.

    Since 2000 there has been only one year when a superbowl contending team didn't rank in the top 10 in team salary. It just so happens that this year was 2000-2001 when team salaries were the closest from top to bottom.

    Since then one of the teams in the superbowl have ranked in the top 10 in team salary. In fact 7 out of the 10 years a superbowl contending team has ranked in the top 4 in team salary. NO they didn't always win the superbowl but they did make the big dance.

    I think if your a competently run franchise then it pays to be paying higher team salaries to make it to the superbowl.

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