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Thread: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

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    Default Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2011/7...power-forwards

    The link has a table with all the stats. I would have pasted but it didnt come out right

    Statistics used are career averages to give a larger sample size. Players with next to their name are Restricted Free Agents.

    David West is by far the best available PF on this list and one of the best available Free Agents overall. Perhaps West's greatest attribute is his ability to hit shots from anywhere at a good rate. If you take a look at his Shot Selection page from HoopData, you can see how absurdly good the spread is between where he shoots and how efficiently he shoots. He likes to take a lot of shots from 16-23 feet, statistically the least efficient shot in basketball, but it works for him because he makes them at a great rate (right around 45% for the last 5 years, including 47% last year). West is also a decent rebounder on the defensive glass (unlike the comparable Carl Landry) and a great passer for a big man. He's also really good at staying out of Foul Trouble; His 2.9 PF per 36 min ranks him as the least foul prone big man on this list. Defensively, he doesn't look as good. He's not terrible, but I think it says something that New Orleans has always sought to pair him up with a defensive minded Center.

    Unfortunately for West, he is coming off a torn ACL and will be 31 years old next season. He'll get his money, but would he be a worthwhile investment for the Kings? If we're looking short term, I think he would be. But longer term it'd probably be wiser to invest that money in someone younger.

    That someone is not Carl Landry. Been there, done that. It didn't work. Moving on.

    Forget Brandan Wright or Leon Powe as well. Both might be able to help in some capacity, but they've also missed major time the last few years due to various injuries. Earl Clark is another young guy you can forget about. A lottery pick just two years ago, he's gone the way of Joe Alexander and might be out of the league as soon as this year if nobody signs him.

    Craig Smith is the rich man's Darnell Jackson, except he shoots more around the rim. The Kings don't really need him with JT and Hickson on board. Jonas Jerebko is interesting, but I have limited information on him. He can play either the 3 or the 4, is a scrappy defender and can shoot (his 3 point shooting could use improvement). If I were to compare him to anyone it'd probably be a taller, more athletic Andres Nocioni, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Still, he's also coming off a knee injury that knocked him out of all last season, so we'll see how he regroups from that. His restricted status also makes things complicated for interesting teams, especially since Detroit likes him.

    Troy Murphy is a guy many people on this site are familiar with, as his name has come up often in trade discussions the last couple years, particularly when he was an expiring contract and the Kings had desperately needed a rebounding infusion. Murphy does two things well: Rebound (mainly on the defensive glass) and shoot (.389 career 3P%). He's also an above average passer for a big man. Defensively he's a sieve however, and it remains to be seen how last year's back injury affects the rest of his game. It definitely slowed him down during his limited time in Boston, and he wasn't able to have the effect the Celtics had hoped when they picked him up off the waiver wire.

    Kenyon Martin is perhaps the best defensive Power Forward on the market. He's a good shot blocker and decent rebounder, and statistically his teams have allowed less points when he's been on the floor. Offensively Martin gets most of his buckets around the rim, and he's not a good jump shooter. The biggest con with Martin however is the fact that he's been very injury prone throughout his career, missing almost 30% of his possible career games in 11 years.

    Glen "Big Baby" Davis is overrated. He benefited greatly from playing with Boston's veteran stars, and I have my doubts to how he'll handle playing on a team without such great veteran leaders. Even so, he's not that great. He's a finesse scorer despite being 6'9 and 290 lbs, and not a good rebounder or defender to boot, mainly due to his lack of athleticism, demonstrated here:



    Yeah, no thanks.

    Two guys that do really interest me however are Kris Humphries and Josh McRoberts. Humphries will probably become better known for being Mr. Kim Kardashian than anything he does on the basketball court but he's no bum either. Humphries is very athletic, a great rebounder (on both ends of the court), and a decent shot blocker. He gets most of his points near the basket, but he can hit a jumper as well (although he's not great at it). McRoberts is one of the more interesting available Free Agents because of his great versatility. He's a decent rebounder, good athlete, great passer, good shot blocker and efficient scorer (who can hit threes).

    Reggie Evans is the best option on the board for rebounding purposes (where he's a beast on both ends), but he doesn't do much else, unless you count turning it over (which he does a lot of). He has a reputation as a dirty defender, but injuries have hurt him here. While the numbers show he was a pretty good defender through the early part of his career, he has since devolved into a minus defender.

    Jason Smith and Yi Jianlian are the best of the rest in my opinion (if you exclude the way past their prime veterans who are only going to join teams with a chance at the title) and that's not saying much. Both are primarily jump shooters, and despite reputation (Jianlian is the Chinese Nowitzki!), Smith is probably the more reliable shooter and defender. Jianlian edges Smith out on rebounding though. I don't really want either one on the team.

    Brian Scalabrine on the other hand...
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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Kings just need high character veterans with enough of a name to keep the youngsters in check.
    IF he's at all interested, they don't need to look past David West.
    Last edited by ballism; 07-15-2011 at 06:56 PM. Reason: clumsy English

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    Kings just need high character veterans with enough of a name to keep the youngsters in check.
    IF he's at all interested, they don't need to look past David West.
    The Kings have a much more physical team than we do. If healthy, David West fits their need a lot more than he does for us. He "could" be the piece that makes them a contender because they could use some scoring.
    The one thing he does have going for him is that he is seems to be a decent character guy and a professional. The Kings need that badly as we do, but his game fits them better.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Yep another DW thread woopieeeee ...........................

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Is there a physical defender who block shots and rebounds available?
    I would like to see who is out there (other than Chandler and Nene). I would really like to see if there is one who can backup both the 4-5. I have searched but am not sure one is available.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Is there a physical defender who block shots and rebounds available?
    I would like to see who is out there (other than Chandler and Nene). I would really like to see if there is one who can backup both the 4-5. I have searched but am not sure one is available.
    Kwame Brown is probably the next best option IMO. But Charlotte wants to keep him and i don't want to over pay for him. ala Jerome James.


    Chuck Hayes Samuel Dalmbert are also available
    Last edited by pacer4ever; 07-15-2011 at 08:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    The Kings have a much more physical team than we do. If healthy, David West fits their need a lot more than he does for us. He "could" be the piece that makes them a contender because they could use some scoring.
    The one thing he does have going for him is that he is seems to be a decent character guy and a professional. The Kings need that badly as we do, but his game fits them better.
    The "Kings" , just like the Pacers, need more then just David West to make them contenders. They need an actual Starting quality PG ( before you say it, no....Tyreke Evans is not that guy ). Getting back Salmons and getting a Vet like West will help...but they need more then that.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Kwame Brown is probably the next best option IMO. But Charlotte wants to keep him and i don't want to over pay for him. ala Jerome James.


    Chuck Hayes Samuel Dalmbert are also available
    Dalembert and Brown cannot play the 4 right? I am thinking they are both centers. Chuck Hayes is interesting but isnt he only 6'6? He rebounds some but is not a shot blocking presence. I am not sure about him.

    I am going to just guess that the PF/C combo player needed would have to come via trade then? So, it is useless to speculate until the lock is lifted and we get an idea of the cap situation.

    EDIT: I just looked at the stats for Brown. I would not over pay for him either. McBob is as productive as he is!
    Last edited by troyc11a; 07-15-2011 at 08:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    The "Kings" , just like the Pacers, need more then just David West to make them contenders. They need an actual Starting quality PG ( before you say it, no....Tyreke Evans is not that guy ). Getting back Salmons and getting a Vet like West will help...but they need more then that.
    A lot of that depends on Cousins. When we watched them play this season, man they looked a ton better than us. The main reason they need more than us is because they play in the West. If they were in the East, David West woiuld make them instant contenders for the 4 seed (IMHO).

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Dalembert and Brown cannot play the 4 right? I am thinking they are both centers. Chuck Hayes is interesting but isnt he only 6'6? He rebounds some but is not a shot blocking presence. I am not sure about him.

    I am going to just guess that the PF/C combo player needed would have to come via trade then? So, it is useless to speculate until the lock is lifted and we get an idea of the cap situation.

    EDIT: I just looked at the stats for Brown. I would not over pay for him either. McBob is as productive as he is!
    Stats don't tell the story on a player like Kwame

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Chuck Hayes is interesting but isnt he only 6'6? He rebounds some but is not a shot blocking presence. I am not sure about him.
    Chuck Hayes is awesome

    Yes, he's 6'6'' and not a shotblocker, plus his offense is limited. That's about it for weaknesses though. Elite defender, above average rebounder, surprisingly good passer. I'll take him ahead most of the guys mentioned in that article. In fact, I think most people seem to be sleeping on him, when IMO he is one of the more effective FA big men out there.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    able to help in some capacity, but they've also missed major time the last few years due to various injuries. Earl Clark is another young guy you can forget about. A lottery pick just two years ago, he's gone the way of Joe Alexander and might be out of the league as soon as this year if nobody signs him.
    Well, that goes for everyone, now, doesn't it?

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Chuck Hayes is awesome

    Yes, he's 6'6'' and not a shotblocker, plus his offense is limited. That's about it for weaknesses though. Elite defender, above average rebounder, surprisingly good passer. I'll take him ahead most of the guys mentioned in that article. In fact, I think most people seem to be sleeping on him, when IMO he is one of the more effective FA big men out there.
    I see he is listed as a Center? If this is true, he could backup both Center and PF positions correct?

    That is what we really need. A C/PF combo who specializes in "D!" If what you are saying is true about him (and I am not doubting you - I just dont know), he seems to be a much better fit than David West ever thought of being.

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    Signing Chuck Hayes could either make or break Roy Hibbert's career. Either Roy is going to get tough and learn how to score against good, physical defense, or he's going to be so demoralized by getting his *** kicked by Chuck Hayes in practice everyday that he'll be completely worthless. Either way it's a good thing. Finding out who Roy Hibbert truly is will be the most important thing that happens to the Pacers this season. We've either got to pay him or give up on him after this year.

    I don't know about Hayes at PF. Playing him there means you're playing him alongside Roy, and I think you really negate his usefulness by asking him to defend more perimeter-oriented players.

    The more I look at this class of FAs, the more it seems like re-signing McRoberts would be a good move. He's the only guy who seems like an good fit beside both Roy and Tyler.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    What would be Hayes role? Backup C with some PF minutes in certain matchups? Sure. I like him and what he stands for. 4 mil a year?
    Starting PF? No. I wouldn't like the idea at all. Just keep the money, work with Tyler and Josh, and wait for a good option to come up.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Yeah, Hayes has primarily been playing center for the Rockets. He's been their starting center for 2 seasons in fact (due to Yao Ming's injury).

    I think PF is Chuck's ideal position. He's strong enough to bang with centers, but bigger guys can still shoot over him. Playing PF should make that less of an issue. And it's not like he's too slow to cover guys on the perimeter, as this clip shows:



    Good point though about Hibbert. I mean, if he's subjected to this every practice, something's got to give right?

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by ballism View Post
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    What would be Hayes role? Backup C with some PF minutes in certain matchups? Sure. I like him and what he stands for. 4 mil a year?
    Starting PF? No. I wouldn't like the idea at all. Just keep the money, work with Tyler and Josh, and wait for a good option to come up.
    I really think we need a top notch back-up center. We all saw how important Foster was during the playoffs. We have to invest in a back-up who can give us 20+ minutes of starter level play on any given night.
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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Yeah, Hayes has primarily been playing center for the Rockets. He's been their starting center for 2 seasons in fact (due to Yao Ming's injury).

    I think PF is Chuck's ideal position. He's strong enough to bang with centers, but bigger guys can still shoot over him. Playing PF should make that less of an issue. And it's not like he's too slow to cover guys on the perimeter, as this clip shows:



    Good point though about Hibbert. I mean, if he's subjected to this every practice, something's got to give right?
    Chuck is kind of like Luc Mbah a Moute

    not as versatile because IMO LMAM can guard all 5 positions which is very rare. I would love to add LMAM.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Dwight could play PF as well, but it's just not where he does the most damage. Backup C makes much more sense. A guy who can non stop box out, shove, push around bigger guys in the paint, and can't shoot except from under basket? That's a good defensive backup 5, who would be quite underused as a full time defender of Boshs and Blatches.
    Not to mention, it's not easy to adjust to go from 5 to 4 when you are close to 30.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    I really think we need a top notch back-up center. We all saw how important Foster was during the playoffs. We have to invest in a back-up who can give us 20+ minutes of starter level play on any given night.
    Let's break down the minutes for the like 4 Frontcourt Players in our rotation. We know that there are 2 likely Players...Hibbert and Hansbrough....both commanding a likely combined total of roughly 52 to 54 minutes a game. I'm expecting that Bird will go after one of the top tier PF that will likely get paid anywhere between $8 to $14 mil a year ( anyone between Landry, West or Nene )....regardless, a Frontcourt Player that should play 28 to 30 Starter minutes a game.

    What does that leave us?

    A backup Frontcourt player that plays anywhere between 12 to 16 minutes a game. I agree that we should solidify our Frontcourt rotation and get a top tier Backup Center....but keep in mind that more often then not....that Player will more then likely play 12 minutes a game ( assuming that Hibbert plays 30 mpg, Hansbrough plays 24 mpg and the new Starting PF plays roughly 30 mpg )...not 20 minutes.
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    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    I think Kwame Brown is the guy who fits the bill for us the most. He was a bust as a #1 pick, but he is actually a very solid big man and still fairly young. He has great size and pretty good athleticism. He rebounds and defends the low post very well and can play either spot. And he won't break the bank either. I really believe he is a guy that just needs to be in the right situation and he could start to change people's perception of him. He fits pretty well here I think as a potential starting 4 (he would have to slim down and get in better shape), or back-up 5.

    I also like Hayes a lot. But I have more trouble seeing where he fits in the rotation. He seems best suited to be a back up 4. And I know he has played a lot of center but I really don't like him there for us. We need to add size inside, not necessarily get smaller. He's one of those guys anyone would love to have though. And I also like the point about Hibbert having to play against him in practice, that would be great for Big Roy.

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Dalembert and Brown cannot play the 4 right? I am thinking they are both centers. Chuck Hayes is interesting but isnt he only 6'6? He rebounds some but is not a shot blocking presence. I am not sure about him.

    I am going to just guess that the PF/C combo player needed would have to come via trade then? So, it is useless to speculate until the lock is lifted and we get an idea of the cap situation.

    EDIT: I just looked at the stats for Brown. I would not over pay for him either. McBob is as productive as he is!
    Kwame would have to lose about 20 lbs, but he started his career as a PF. I always like the idea of slimming bigs down vs. bulking them up. The thing about Brown is he is a very good defensive big around the hoop. He holds his ground well in the post, and has the size and length to be a presence in the paint. Both McRoberts and Hansbrough struggle in those areas and we suffer for it when he is on the court.

    I wouldn't overpay for him either but he should not command a big contract. He would be much cheaper than Chandler, West or Nene.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 07-16-2011 at 10:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    This is just a question, a 2:00am question I must add. I like both Brown and Hayes. If we could land both of them for about the same salary as West would want would anyone be dissappointed. Brown can back-up Hibbert and Hayes can back up Tyler.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Can someone who has watched Yi Jianlian tell me what's up with him? I've seen a few good games out of him, and know that he was hyped up a little bit; but he hasn't really done much. Does he just need to be coached up better? Given more time on a young team? etc? If we could sign him to a healthy contract, would he be worth the time/risk/etc?
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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    I always like the idea of slimming bigs down vs. bulking them up.
    I'd agree in some cases but that didn't work too well for Roy.

    Nice post though.

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    Default Re: Analyzing the 2011 Free Agents: Power Forwards

    Quote Originally Posted by Smits Happens View Post
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    I'd agree in some cases but that didn't work too well for Roy.

    Nice post though.
    So you're saying Roy took a step back and didn't improve last year.

    The way I see, and hopefully Roy sees it, is he got 'in shape' last year and now needs to 'strengthen up' for next season. Add some abdominal/back strength and some leg strength and he's beast.

    It just bugs me that people act like Hibbert getting lean was a career killer.
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