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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

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  • 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

    With the league in official lockout mode, I figure we could all use a break from the hard-cap vs. the flex-cap debate, and the other discussions centered on potential profit-sharing and heavily steeped in legalese.

    So the plan is this: over the next few months, I'll go back over previous drafts and "re-draft" all the players. (Back in June, I started with the 2001 draft – click here for the link) Of course, I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, based on all that we now know everyone that came into the league years ago.

    Here is how we'll approach this project: Every pick will be made pretending each organization is a first year expansion franchise and has no other players on its roster, so there is no need to factor roster needs as of June 2005 into any discussion. Selections will be made simply based on pure production – i.e. best player available.

    I'll list each new pick, and then post the player that was actually selected in that original draft slot.

    As a refresher, here is a link to the actual 2005 NBA draft.

    Without further adieu, let's start selecting:


    #1 – With the first overall pick in the 2005 Re-Draft, the Milwaukee Bucks select: Chris Paul
    (Actual 2005 pick: Andrew Bogut)
    Right out of the gate, it was pretty clear that CP3 would become an elite NBA superstar. During the 2005-2006 season, he led all rookies in points, assists, and steals, en route to winning Rookie of the Year award. By 2007, he had already established himself as arguably one the best point guards on the planet, and one of the league's most valuable players – finishing a close second to Kobe for 2008 NBA MVP. Paul has already set numerous NBA records during his brief career; he is the only player to lead the league in assists and steals in consecutive seasons. He also holds the all-time record for consecutive games with a steal (108). For his career, CP3 is averaging 9.9 assists per game – that is third all-time, behind Magic Johnson (11.2) and John Stockton (10.5). 'Nuff said.

    #2 – The Atlanta Hawks select: Deron Williams
    (Actual 2005 pick: Marvin Williams)
    The CP3 vs. D-Will debate is very much alive and well. Personally, I'd go with Paul, but there are Williams supporters out there that would contest Deron is the better all-around, more durable player, and that he will go on to have the better career. Looking strictly at the numbers, it is tough argue against CP3, especially when you look at his playoff production. (Here is an interesting look at their head-to-head matchups, courtesy of basketball-reference: http://bit.ly/ohF7Dl). Nonetheless, whether you want to rank him #1 or #2, Williams is obviously a world-class PG. Over the last three seasons, D-Will has recorded more 20-point, 10-assist games (63) than another other player in the NBA (Paul is second with 60).

    #3 – The Utah Jazz select: Danny Granger
    (Actual 2005 pick: Deron Williams)
    Granger slipped all the way to way to #17 on draft night back in 2005, where Donnie Walsh and the Pacers happily snatched him up. Granger has already made an All-Star team, he won the NBA's Most Improved Player Award in 2009, and was selected as a member of Team USA during 2010 FIBA World Championships. However, Granger seemed to take a bit of step back last season in Indiana. After averaging 25.8 and 24.2 ppg respectively over the previous two seasons, Granger saw his scoring average drop to 20.5 during the 2010-2011 campaign. Also, take a look at his FG% over his first six seasons in the NBA, starting with his rookie year up through last season: 46.2%, 45.9%, 44.7%, 42.8%, and 42.5%. That downward trend is disconcerting. It will be interesting if Granger can bounce back next season (whenever that is…)


    #4 – The New Orleans Hornets select: Andrew Bynum
    (Actual 2005 pick: Chris Paul)
    Bynum was viewed as a huge hit-or-miss prospect back in 2005, and honestly, the same may still be said about the burly big man. Blessed with phenomenal size and athleticism, Bynum has the chance to become a truly great center. In a league where talented big men are so few and far between, Bynum's upside is scintillating. However, he has had a tough time staying healthy long enough to prove he is as good as most believe him to be. Nonetheless, if NBA GMs had a chance to get their hands on him, it is unlikely they'd be able to pass on a seven-footer with Bynum's skill set.

    #5 – The Charlotte Bobcats select: Andrew Bogut
    (Actual 2005 pick: Raymond Felton)
    Bogut is another talented center that has dealt with his fair share of injuries. However, when healthy he is legit starting center in the NBA – which means he is worth his weight in gold. Over his last two seasons, despite missing a total of 30 games, Bogut has proven he can score (averaging 17.7 ppg in 2009-2010), rebound (averaging 11.3 rpg since 2009) and block shots – Bogut blocked 2.8 shots per game in '09-'10, and led the entire league in swats last season (2.6 bpg).

    #6 – The Portland Trail Blazers select: Monta Ellis
    (Actual 2005 pick: Martell Webster)
    Six years after they were drafted, Ellis owns the highest career scoring average (19.4 ppg) amongst all players taken in 2005. A little known, undersized guard out a small high school in Mississippi, Ellis lasted to the middle of the second-round before the Warriors selected him – making Monta one of the greatest value picks in NBA draft history. Ellis has some durability issues, and has been a headache at times in Golden State, but the kid's talent is undeniable.


    #7 – The Toronto Raptors select: Raymond Felton
    (Actual 2005 pick: Charlie Villanueva)
    Heading into the start of last season, Felton seemed to be at a bit of a career crossroads. Playing in Charlotte under Larry Brown, Felton's production had experienced a dramatic downturn. But as a free agent, Felton landed in New York, playing for head coach Mike D'Antoni. Felton immediately showed what kind of PG he could be playing in an up-tempo system that perfectly suited his game. In the 54 games he played for the Knicks before being shipped to Denver in the Carmelo Anthony deal, Felton averaged 17.1 ppg, 9.0 assists, and 1.6 three-pointers per contest. Raymond is next going to get a chance to run the show in Portland.

    #8 – The New York Knicks select: David Lee
    (Actual 2005 pick: Channing Frye)
    Yet another late gem – Lee lasted to #30, the last pick of round one back in June of 2005. And if we are looking at pure statistical production, D Lee is right near the top of his class. Lee leads of 2005 draftees in rebounding (9.6 boards per game for his career); while also averaging 13.6 points and shooting a stout 54.6% from the floor. However, Lee has spent the majority of his NBA career playing in "fantasy friendly" systems (NY and GSW). And for all his offensive output, Lee is a below-average defender (and that's putting it nicely).

    #9 – The Golden State Warriors select: Channing Frye
    (Actual 2005 pick: Ike Diogu)
    In just six short seasons, Frye's career has already seen some dramatic peaks and valleys. He exploded onto the scene as a rookie with the Knicks. He was named Rookie of the Month in November of 2005 (along with Chris Paul) – and averaged 15.6 ppg and 7.9 rpg as a starter for the Knicks that first year. However, he was sidelined by a knee injury late that season, and was never able to re-establish himself in New York. On June 28, the night of the 2007 NBA Draft, Frye, along with Knicks guard Steve Francis, was traded to the Portland Trail Blazers in exchange for Zach Randolph, Fred Jones and Dan Dickau. Frye was relegated to bench-warmer status in Portland, before signing with the Suns as an unrestricted free agent. Frye resurrected his career in Phoenix, developing into one of the league's best jump-shooting big men, which earned him a hefty $35 million contract from the Suns.

    #10 – The Los Angeles Lakers select: Andray Blatche
    (Actual 2005 pick: Andrew Bynum)
    Blatche's maturity and commitment to the game can certainly be questioned, but his skill set for a 6-11 player is remarkable. Last season, he averaged 16.8 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 2.3 assists – despite playing less than 34 minutes a night. His upside is undeniable; whether or not he'll ever reach his true ceiling is debatable.

    #11 – The Orlando Magic select: Marvin Williams
    (Actual 2005 pick: Fran Vázquez)
    Williams is viewed as a bust by many due to the fact that the Hawks took him second overall, ahead of both Chris Paul and Deron Williams. However, Williams is a decent starting NBA small forward. His production won't wow you, but he is reliably consistent. You can usually pencil him in for 10 points and 5 boards, with limited turnovers.

    #12 – The Los Angeles Clippers select: Marcin Gortat
    (Actual 2005 pick: Yaroslav Korolev)
    As one of the final few picks in the 2005 draft (57th overall) very little was expected of Gortat in NBA circles. Yet, he put in work in Orlando and developed into an intriguing player. The issue was the Magic already had their franchise center in Dwight Howard, the league's premier pivot. We only saw quick glimpses of Gortat. That all changed as a result of an in-season blockbuster trade between Orlando and Phoenix. Marcin finally was given a chance to prove he was a legit NBA starting center. He ended up playing 55 games for the Suns last year, averaging 13 ppg (shooting 56.3% from the floor), 9.3 rpg, and 1.3 bpg. The Suns are hoping he is just starting to scratch the surface.

    #13 – The Charlotte Bobcats select: Charlie Villanueva
    (Actual 2005 pick: Sean May)
    After signing a massive free agent contract with the Pistons in July of 2009, it has all been pretty much downhill for Charlie V in MoTown. Last season was the worst of Villanueva's pro career. He averaged career-lows in points, rebounds, and assists. Considering the Pistons still owe him $24.2 million over the next three seasons, they are praying he is able to bounce back in a big way.

    #14 – The Minnesota Timberwolves select: Jarrett Jack
    (Actual 2005 pick: Rashad McCants)
    Jack has bounced around quite a bit, playing for four different organizations during his still young NBA career. In each city, he's found away to carve out a niche for himself and established a reputation as a productive and efficient NBA guard.

    #15 – The New Jersey Nets select: Amir Johnson
    (Actual 2005 pick: Antoine Wright)

    The Raps rolled the dice when re-signing Johnson for a whopping $35 million last summer. Amir's 'per-minute' averages had always been intriguing, but he hadn't yet proved he could sustain those stats given extensive playing time. Last season, he saw 25 minutes a night for the first time in his career and put up respectable numbers (9.6 ppg, 6.4 rpg, and 1.2 bpg). However, Amir was often his own worst enemy, as foul trouble plagued him on a near nightly basis. He is still just 24 years of age, so there is plenty of time for continued development.

    #16 – The Toronto Raptors select: Brandon Bass
    (Actual 2005 pick: Joey Graham)
    Bass is another player who we are still a bit unsure about. After spending his first two pro seasons buried on the Hornets bench, Bass got a chance to play in Dallas, and showed glimpses of impressive talent. That earned him a lucrative contract offer form the Magic once he hit free agency. The 2009-2010 campaign was a disappointment, as he played just 13 minutes per contest. But Bass bounced back last season; putting up over 11 points and grabbing 5.6 rebounds in 26 minutes of action.

    #17 – The Indian Pacers select: Louis Williams
    (Actual 2005 pick: Danny Granger)
    The Sixers took a second-round flier on Williams, an undersized guard setting scoring records in Georgia back in 2005. Sweet Lou has proved to be a solid scorer in the NBA as well, averaging over 13 points per game over the last three seasons in Philly. Williams isn't a true PG, and won't give you much besides points, but he's definitely a solid spark off the bench for Doug Collins in Philadelphia.


    #18 – The Boston Celtics select: Ersan Ilyasova
    (Actual 2005 pick: Gerald Green)
    After playing for the Bucks as a rookie in 2005-2006, Ilyasova left the NBA to play overseas. He didn't return to Milwaukee until 2009, and quickly proved he belonged. Ersan has been a fan favorite and solid rotation player for the Bucks since settling back in the States.

    #19 – The Memphis Grizzlies select: Hakim Warrick
    (Actual 2005 pick: Hakim Warrick)
    Warrick has always had an intriguing skill set, but hasn't quiet been able to put it all together in the NBA. Now he finds himself in Phoenix, where a glut of forwards has relegated him to part-time player.

    #20 – The Denver Nuggets select: C. J. Miles
    (Actual 2005 pick: Julius Hodge)
    Here is Miles scoring average over each of his last 5 NBA seasons: 2.7, 5.0, 9.1, 9.9, 12.8. The consistent, continued improvement is obvious.

    #21 – The Phoenix Suns select: Nate Robinson
    (Actual 2005 pick: Nate Robinson)
    You could argue that Robinson is pound-for-pound the most athletic player in the NBA, maybe in all of professional sports. Not only is he an incredible leaper for a guy his size (the slam dunk trophies on his mantle are proof positive of this), he is also a very good shooter. Unfortunately, he just doesn't get it. All that talent, but he refuses to exert his efforts efficiently. You would think he'd watch a player like J.J. Barea and see how he could positively impact a game. Instead, it often seems he is more interested in sending tweets or being the class clown. Just last month, Robinson got arrested twice in one weekend for public urination.

    #22 – The Denver Nuggets select: Ryan Gomes
    (Actual 2005 pick: Jarrett Jack)
    Gomes has been solid, if not spectacular, since entering the league. His best seasons came with the Timberwolves; he averaged 13.3 ppg in 08-09 and 5.8 rpg the season prior.

    #23 – The Sacramento Kings select: Jason Maxiell
    (Actual 2005 pick: Francisco García)
    The Pistons had some hope Maxiell would develop into a solid pro after a few promising moments early on in his career, but he's actually regressed a bit over the over the last couple of seasons. (He still has two years and $10 million left on his current contract.)

    #24 – The Houston Rockets select: Linas Kleiza
    (Actual 2005 pick: Luther Head)
    Kleiza spent his first four years with the Nuggets, before playing in Greece for a year. Last summer he signed a contract with the Raptors, and was having a fine season until a severe injury sidelined him.

    #25 – The Seattle Sonics select: Martell Webster
    (Actual 2005 pick: Johan Petro)
    Clearly a disappointment, as the Blazers used the 6th overall selection on Webster. Still, he is just 25 and has plenty time left to prove himself.

    #26 – The Detroit Pistons select: Ronny Turiaf
    (Actual 2005 pick: Jason Maxiell)
    Turiaf has overcome a lot, in particular a life-threatening heart condition. Ronny has bounced back and has been a hard worker, grinder, and fan favorite everywhere he's played.

    #27 – The Portland Trail Blazers select: Johan Petro
    (Actual 2005 pick: Linas Kleiza)
    Your classic journeyman center...

    #28 – The San Antonio Spurs select: Ian Mahinmi
    (Actual 2005 pick: Ian Mahinmi)
    Mahinmi has purportedly impressed in practice at each of his stops, but is still too raw to crack the rotation in Dallas. That might change next year if Tyson Chandler (an unrestricted free agent) leaves Big D.

    #29 – The Miami HEAT select: Luther Head
    (Actual 2005 pick: Wayne Simien)
    It appeared Head was destined for big things in Houston, when he emerged as a rotation player immediately. He was named second-team All-Rookie, and during his second season with the Rockets, he averaged 10.9 ppg and 2.2 three-pointers. But Luther hasn't been able to make the same NBA impact since. He spent last season in Sacarmento, appearing in 36 contests.

    * As an interesting aside, the player actually picked with the 29th pick was Kansas All-American, Wayne Simien. Wayne won a title with the HEAT his rookie season, but shortly thereafter retired from basketball, at age 26. He is now working as a minister – here is a link to his story.

    #30 – The New York Knicks select: Joey Graham
    (Actual 2005 pick: David Lee)
    Graham has started games for three different teams over the previous three seasons. A defensive-minded, tough-nosed forward, Graham spent last season in Cleveland, trying to help fill the gaping hole left by LeBron James.

    Read more NBA news and insight: http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?...#ixzz1Ruh5QJOu
    Sittin on top of the world!

  • #2
    Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

    So we got the 3rd best player in the draft with the 17th pick...doesn't get much more efficient than that!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

      Lou Williams is a nice player though

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

        It really emphasizes how much of a crap shot the draft is. We are talking about some professionals whose only job is to scout future NBA talent

        and they are still wrong at least 50% of the time
        Sittin on top of the world!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

          I always enjoy the exercise of doing a hindsight draft. Leading up to draft night I remember going back and reading all the drafts for the past 20 years - but it's interesting that you could do the hindsight draft 5 or 6 years after a draft, then again 5 years after that (for 10 year vets), and find sometimes that guys who stuck in the league and improved their game and avoided injury moved up the draft even more, when guys who had 3 or 4 good years and a major injury would have been picked higher, but might be out of the league in 6 or 7 years.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

            It still baffles me as to why teams take foreign, less known, "high ceiling" players #1 or very high (Bogut, Milicic) over the sure thing American's we've all seen play and know they will ateast be solid (Chris Paul, Lebron, Melo, Wade)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

              Originally posted by thatch3232 View Post
              It still baffles me as to why teams take foreign, less known, "high ceiling" players #1 or very high (Bogut, Milicic) over the sure thing American's we've all seen play and know they will ateast be solid (Chris Paul, Lebron, Melo, Wade)
              Did you really include Bogut in the list of foreigners we didn't know much about?

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              • #8
                Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                Originally posted by thatch3232 View Post
                It still baffles me as to why teams take foreign, less known, "high ceiling" players #1 or very high (Bogut, Milicic) over the sure thing American's we've all seen play and know they will ateast be solid (Chris Paul, Lebron, Melo, Wade)
                I think its like if you are going to play the lotto, play the 50 million dollar one, not the 50,000 dollar one

                meaning they would ratehr go for the risk, so if that 1 in about every 50 foreign players becomes "DirkLike" they are hailed as a genuis
                Sittin on top of the world!

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                • #9
                  Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                  Bird said Granger was 4th on the Pacers draft board that year.

                  I wonder how Paul George will be viewed in 5 years? Throw Lance in there too.

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                  • #10
                    Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                    wasn't paul already like 3rd in Chad Ford's redraft?
                    Goodbye Captain, My Captain. I wish you had the chance to sink or swim with your ship on its quest for the "ship".

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                    • #11
                      Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                      Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
                      Did you really include Bogut in the list of foreigners we didn't know much about?
                      Would Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, or Andrew Bynum have been a better pick? Yes. So I included him.

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                      • #12
                        Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                        if healthy, i think you'd have to rank bynum and bogut ahead of granger and then flip a coin between granger and ellis. but there's a big separation between the top 6 and the rest of the class.

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                        • #13
                          Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                          Originally posted by thatch3232 View Post
                          Would Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, or Andrew Bynum have been a better pick? Yes. So I included him.
                          umm bogut was ap and espn player of the year, and won the naismith and wooden awards in 2005. no idea where you got the idea that bogut was an "unknown" or low-ceiling player... and when healthy, bogut has proven to be a top 3-5 center in the league and arguably the best defender at the center position.

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                          • #14
                            Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                            Originally posted by thatch3232 View Post
                            Would Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, or Andrew Bynum have been a better pick? Yes. So I included him.
                            That has absolutely nothing to do with what you said.

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                            • #15
                              Re: 2005 NBA Draft: Re-Drafted

                              Originally posted by thatch3232 View Post
                              Would Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis, or Andrew Bynum have been a better pick? Yes. So I included him.
                              I would take Bogut over Ellis all day.
                              "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                              - ilive4sports

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