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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

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There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

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  • #1

    George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Howdy,

    Spurs fan here coming over to give you some insight on George Hill. I've been meaning to do this for awhile now but got caught up with life. Oh well, better late than never. I'm sure some of you guys know some about George's game being he grew up right down the street but I'm also sure his game has transformed since being in the NBA.


    Here in San Antonio the Spurs are very close to the community and George was no different, Everyone here is sad to see him go not only because he was a great player but also a great person to have in our city. Saying that, I am glad he is going back home to the Pacers, not only for his sake, but also because I have always liked the Pacers and they have always been my favorite team out east.


    Now to talk some about his game.

    1. What is his true position?
    I can imagine that this has been a popular topic since draft day and also since we argued about this almost every day as a Spurs fan. Yes, George Hill is a combo guard, but be dubious of his PG skills. Make no mistake that George's natural position is definitely the 2 and he is a lot more comfortable when playing there. He isn't a great facilitator, doesn't have great court vision and has trouble running an effective P&R. Saying that, the game isn't going to crumble if you enter him in at that position, if you know what I mean. He has the ability to make it up in different ways, just expect the ball movement and pace of the game to decrease with him at the helm.


    2. His biggest Strengths
    Since college and coming into the league as a rookie, George has improved drastically in his 3 pt shot. He is a threat everywhere on the court with his 3 ball and is absolutely deadly from the corners (remember this). Last season george shot the 3 ball around a 30% clip from the wings and key and close to 50% in the corners.

    George is also a great defender, his long arms make him great defending the passing lanes and contesting shots. He moves well laterally and is very athletic. At times I felt the Spurs leaned on him too much in regard to his defense (guarding others out of position) but with your roster I don't really see that happening which will let him defend his natural positions more.

    He can definitely score the rock. One of George's biggest problems in a Spurs uniform was his lack of assertiveness. Coach Popovich continually had to grill George and remind him that he was one of the best scorers on the court but when that message was taken to heart George could take over a game offensively. He is a great shooter (mid range and 3 pt) as touched on earlier, great at getting to the rim, and great at getting to the line and finishing.

    Another big strength that gained him huge respect from Spurs fans was his ability to perform in the playoffs. To Spurs fans, that is all that matters. George has been one of the best playoff performers for the Spurs since he's entered the league which is huge because it doesn't always work out that way. He was one of the biggest reasons we were able to beat Dallas in the first round 2 years ago. I also think that will help a lot with your young roster.

    He also takes no shi* from anyone! Not even Kobe.


    3. Weaknesses
    As I said before George tends to shy away at times or needs to be reminded that he is in fact an NBA player. Coach Popovich was always on him to play more aggressive and confidently because that's when he is at his best. Being on a veteran team could have had an effect on that and now him being the "veteran" on a younger team could indeed change that whole problem. He does have an active mind though and you could tell that if he doesn't play well, it does take a pretty big toll on him and his confidence.

    Defensively George is pretty solid but there is also a couple problems that arise with him. He is a tweener so at time guarding bigger stronger 2s has been a problem. Like I said earlier, I feel the Spurs had him guarding out of position too much which didn't help this and with your current roster of athletic 3s, I don't see that being the case here. George does have a problem guarding the P&R though, he isn't the best at fighting through screens and definitely needs to work on this part of his game.

    Road Play- As a Spurs fan this was the most frustrating part of George's game. One night he would have 18 pts on 8-10 shooting playing the Lakers at home and the next game he would be 1-10 shooting at Detroit. For whatever reason it was, George had serious problems playing on the road with the Silver and Black. Here are Georges stats from last season comparing his Home and Road #'s. As you can see, it's a pretty big drop off for a guy who averaged close to 30mpg for us.

    Home: 14.3 PPG, 53% FG, 50% 3FG
    Road: 8.8 PPG, 41% FG, 27% 3FG

    Hopefully his road woes disappear with his new surroundings.


    On the flip side, I hope Kawhi Leonard works out for us Our front office must have seen something to target the kid and I'm not going to go against there judgement.



    Hopefully this helps a little to some of you guys who haven't seen George play a whole lot. If you guys would like to know anything else regarding him don't hesitate to ask (#s and all). Hopefully we can have many good basketball discussions going forward here, which seems to be a pretty active board.

    Good luck next season (if there is one ) and Go Spurs Go!

    Bye George

    timvp.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Thank you for taking the time to give us a report. It is always good to get a first hand report on a player.

    I have been wondering about his ability to take the ball to the rim, any insight on that?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    • #3
      Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

      Thanks for posting this. I was unaware of the differences at home vs on the road. Hopefully as he is another year older this improves.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

        Thanks for dropping in! At least from our perspective, a lot of us thought the trade was one that should work out for both teams. Is that how all you felt?

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

          Originally posted by mattie View Post
          Thanks for dropping in! At least from our perspective, a lot of us thought the trade was one that should work out for both teams. Is that how all you felt?
          wait aren't you the one who said the Pacers stole Hill and gave up nothing for him while i was the one who said it was good for both teams?

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          • #6
            Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

            I didn't realize the extent of his timid nature, maybe that changes with a different group. Also, I no idea the home/away disparity. I'm surprised at how clearly he's more a 2 guard.

            I am still hoping/thinking he can provide excellent defense against opposing Point Guards. I'm going over some games from last year and I didn't realize how poor DCs defensive recognition is at times. If George Hill can provide relief in this area, if DC doesn't consistently improve in this, GH can have a huge impact on this team in that way. In fact, GH might finish games instead of DC, if DC doesn't start to improve on defense, imho.

            Although, I did notice the getting through pick issue with GH, mentioned in the OP. Spurs, though, would often straight switch on these at the end of games, so I don't know if that was by design for strategy or from GHs limitations.

            I'm eager to find out, though.
            Last edited by Speed; 07-11-2011, 08:08 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

              Ironically, Hill would have been a great PG option for Jim and his offense.

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              • #8
                Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                One other thing, about George Hill bogging down an offense when playing the point. With the Point Guards that have been Pacers the last few years, I wonder if we'd even notice.

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                • #9
                  Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                  I always say you never truly know a player until you see him every game (or most every game) so I'm sure there will be a few surprises for us when we start watching George as a Pacers player.

                  I agree with everything tiMVP posted - although I did think he ran the pick and roll pretty well, but then if you have Parker and Manu as comparisons every game, maybe George would pale in any comparison

                  But I expect George to seem like a somewhat different player for us, just because we don't have Duncan, Parker and Manu - we don't even have 1 player like those guys who have all won multiple championships. We also don't have Pop as our coach. So I expect George to be more aggressive as a Pacer

                  The thing I always liked about George whenever I watched him play was his toughness. Sure he has some weaknesses, but toughness is extremely important
                  Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-11-2011, 10:34 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                    Thanks for posting and giving us the insight on Hill.
                    I'm interested in knowing. how do you or other Spurs fans feel about the trade?
                    Why do teams tank? Ask a Spurs fan.

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                    • #11
                      Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                      Thanks for the report. Everything you've said is exactly what I've been saying about him, but it helps to have people who watch every game of his share their thoughts.

                      He's very much like a current Pacer, Darren Collison, in his strengths and weaknesses. I view him as a slightly better version of Darren.

                      He'll definitely be used differently here than he was in San Antonio; at least I hope so. There's still a lot to learn about his game because his role for the Spurs was so simple. He's very effective in the corners, but I think the Spurs had him in the corners way too much and it limited his overall effectiveness. He spent almost all of his time there, and I think San Antonio's offense moved/looked better when George was on the bench. I also think he spent too much time guarding bigger positions, even small forwards, but that's because he may have been the best option between him, Tony and Manu, who spent quite a bit of time together on the court. He looks equally solid on average point guards and shooting guards.

                      Originally posted by Peck
                      I have been wondering about his ability to take the ball to the rim, any insight on that
                      I know you want tiMVP's answer, but George is pretty good when he does it. He has no problem getting to the rim, and has the ability to finish strong and make tough shots, though he misses some of the easier ones sometimes. He can lay it in, but he also has a teardrop that I'm assuming he picked up from Parker.

                      Still, I hope he drives a lot more than he did for the Spurs. I think it will open up his mid-range game (which looks like it could be very good...even one of his top strengths if used effectively) and his outside game. Hopefully tiMVP can provide some insight here.

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                      • #12
                        Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                        Originally posted by Speed View Post
                        One other thing, about George Hill bogging down an offense when playing the point. With the Point Guards that have been Pacers the last few years, I wonder if we'd even notice.
                        I'll notice because having a point guard with vision and the ability to get easy shots for a team full of players that can't create their own shot is still our biggest weakness. I think both Collison and Hill deserve a lot of playing time, but one of them becomes expendable if we get a real point guard here.

                        I'm not counting on it, but it would be perfect if Lance got his act together and could play with these guys. I can't think of a better combo than Lance/Hill; they complement each other so much it's ridiculous. Lance can drive to the middle and knows exactly when to make the kickout pass. He'd get Hill so many open 3s that our offense would become really efficient. And on defense, having Hill on the court allows Lance to slide over to guard SGs which helps cover up his lateral quickness.

                        Also, Hill is very good in transition. Him and Lance together in transition will work. Add Paul George to the mix, who's amazing at running to the rim (though we'd never know since he was rarely rewarded for it last season), and suddenly we have our first fast break team since Mark Jackson was here.
                        Last edited by imawhat; 07-11-2011, 11:20 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                          This post provides an interesting contrast with the general national media interpretation of Hill's game and their projections towards how he will play for the Pacers. Most guys seem to think that Hill was "shackled" to a certain extent in San Antonio's offense, and that he will, to an extent, break out in Indiana's less structured system. There's probably some truth to that, but tiMVP seems to be saying that Hill's shackles may have been self imposed as much as they were Popavich imposed.

                          I agree with Buck in that we will probably see a different George Hill now that he's not playing with HoF type players every night. We've heard from several different assessments that he's a fairly cerebral player, so I'm sure that in his mind taking shots away from Hibbert, Granger, George, etc. is a lot different and less harmful to the team than taking shots away from guys like Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. Hill is most likely our second best player right now. Hopefully he realizes that offensively.

                          Hicks, I've also been thinking the same thing about him being a great PG for O'Brien's offense.

                          I think that Vogel and his atmosphere of unconditional positive regard will probably be good for Hill. Pop is notoriously hard on players; Vogel is just the opposite. I think that will help Hill to assert himself a bit more. Hill was a huge scorer in college. Hopefully we can see him re-gain some of that swagger.
                          "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                          - Salman Rushdie

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                          • #14
                            Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                            Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                            I'm not counting on it, but it would be perfect if Lance got his act together and could play with these guys. I can't think of a better combo than Lance/Hill; they complement each other so much it's ridiculous. Lance can drive to the middle and knows exactly when to make the kickout pass. He'd get Hill so many open 3s that our offense would become really efficient. And on defense, having Hill on the court allows Lance to slide over to guard SGs which helps cover up his lateral quickness.
                            I've been thinking the same thing. People like to say that 2 combo guards does not make a PG, but with good coaching and complementary skill sets I don't know why not.
                            "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                            - Salman Rushdie

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                            • #15
                              Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

                              Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                              I view him as a slightly better version of Darren.
                              I view him as a slightly worse version but with defense.
                              There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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