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Thread: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

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    Default George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Howdy,

    Spurs fan here coming over to give you some insight on George Hill. I've been meaning to do this for awhile now but got caught up with life. Oh well, better late than never. I'm sure some of you guys know some about George's game being he grew up right down the street but I'm also sure his game has transformed since being in the NBA.


    Here in San Antonio the Spurs are very close to the community and George was no different, Everyone here is sad to see him go not only because he was a great player but also a great person to have in our city. Saying that, I am glad he is going back home to the Pacers, not only for his sake, but also because I have always liked the Pacers and they have always been my favorite team out east.


    Now to talk some about his game.

    1. What is his true position?
    I can imagine that this has been a popular topic since draft day and also since we argued about this almost every day as a Spurs fan. Yes, George Hill is a combo guard, but be dubious of his PG skills. Make no mistake that George's natural position is definitely the 2 and he is a lot more comfortable when playing there. He isn't a great facilitator, doesn't have great court vision and has trouble running an effective P&R. Saying that, the game isn't going to crumble if you enter him in at that position, if you know what I mean. He has the ability to make it up in different ways, just expect the ball movement and pace of the game to decrease with him at the helm.


    2. His biggest Strengths

    Since college and coming into the league as a rookie, George has improved drastically in his 3 pt shot. He is a threat everywhere on the court with his 3 ball and is absolutely deadly from the corners (remember this). Last season george shot the 3 ball around a 30% clip from the wings and key and close to 50% in the corners.

    George is also a great defender, his long arms make him great defending the passing lanes and contesting shots. He moves well laterally and is very athletic. At times I felt the Spurs leaned on him too much in regard to his defense (guarding others out of position) but with your roster I don't really see that happening which will let him defend his natural positions more.

    He can definitely score the rock. One of George's biggest problems in a Spurs uniform was his lack of assertiveness. Coach Popovich continually had to grill George and remind him that he was one of the best scorers on the court but when that message was taken to heart George could take over a game offensively. He is a great shooter (mid range and 3 pt) as touched on earlier, great at getting to the rim, and great at getting to the line and finishing.

    Another big strength that gained him huge respect from Spurs fans was his ability to perform in the playoffs. To Spurs fans, that is all that matters. George has been one of the best playoff performers for the Spurs since he's entered the league which is huge because it doesn't always work out that way. He was one of the biggest reasons we were able to beat Dallas in the first round 2 years ago. I also think that will help a lot with your young roster.

    He also takes no shi* from anyone! Not even Kobe.


    3. Weaknesses
    As I said before George tends to shy away at times or needs to be reminded that he is in fact an NBA player. Coach Popovich was always on him to play more aggressive and confidently because that's when he is at his best. Being on a veteran team could have had an effect on that and now him being the "veteran" on a younger team could indeed change that whole problem. He does have an active mind though and you could tell that if he doesn't play well, it does take a pretty big toll on him and his confidence.

    Defensively George is pretty solid but there is also a couple problems that arise with him. He is a tweener so at time guarding bigger stronger 2s has been a problem. Like I said earlier, I feel the Spurs had him guarding out of position too much which didn't help this and with your current roster of athletic 3s, I don't see that being the case here. George does have a problem guarding the P&R though, he isn't the best at fighting through screens and definitely needs to work on this part of his game.

    Road Play- As a Spurs fan this was the most frustrating part of George's game. One night he would have 18 pts on 8-10 shooting playing the Lakers at home and the next game he would be 1-10 shooting at Detroit. For whatever reason it was, George had serious problems playing on the road with the Silver and Black. Here are Georges stats from last season comparing his Home and Road #'s. As you can see, it's a pretty big drop off for a guy who averaged close to 30mpg for us.

    Home: 14.3 PPG, 53% FG, 50% 3FG
    Road: 8.8 PPG, 41% FG, 27% 3FG

    Hopefully his road woes disappear with his new surroundings.


    On the flip side, I hope Kawhi Leonard works out for us Our front office must have seen something to target the kid and I'm not going to go against there judgement.



    Hopefully this helps a little to some of you guys who haven't seen George play a whole lot. If you guys would like to know anything else regarding him don't hesitate to ask (#s and all). Hopefully we can have many good basketball discussions going forward here, which seems to be a pretty active board.

    Good luck next season (if there is one ) and Go Spurs Go!

    Bye George

    timvp.

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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Thank you for taking the time to give us a report. It is always good to get a first hand report on a player.

    I have been wondering about his ability to take the ball to the rim, any insight on that?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Thanks for posting this. I was unaware of the differences at home vs on the road. Hopefully as he is another year older this improves.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Thanks for dropping in! At least from our perspective, a lot of us thought the trade was one that should work out for both teams. Is that how all you felt?

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattie View Post
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    Thanks for dropping in! At least from our perspective, a lot of us thought the trade was one that should work out for both teams. Is that how all you felt?
    wait aren't you the one who said the Pacers stole Hill and gave up nothing for him while i was the one who said it was good for both teams?

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    I didn't realize the extent of his timid nature, maybe that changes with a different group. Also, I no idea the home/away disparity. I'm surprised at how clearly he's more a 2 guard.

    I am still hoping/thinking he can provide excellent defense against opposing Point Guards. I'm going over some games from last year and I didn't realize how poor DCs defensive recognition is at times. If George Hill can provide relief in this area, if DC doesn't consistently improve in this, GH can have a huge impact on this team in that way. In fact, GH might finish games instead of DC, if DC doesn't start to improve on defense, imho.

    Although, I did notice the getting through pick issue with GH, mentioned in the OP. Spurs, though, would often straight switch on these at the end of games, so I don't know if that was by design for strategy or from GHs limitations.

    I'm eager to find out, though.
    Last edited by Speed; 07-11-2011 at 08:08 AM.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Ironically, Hill would have been a great PG option for Jim and his offense.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    One other thing, about George Hill bogging down an offense when playing the point. With the Point Guards that have been Pacers the last few years, I wonder if we'd even notice.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    I always say you never truly know a player until you see him every game (or most every game) so I'm sure there will be a few surprises for us when we start watching George as a Pacers player.

    I agree with everything tiMVP posted - although I did think he ran the pick and roll pretty well, but then if you have Parker and Manu as comparisons every game, maybe George would pale in any comparison

    But I expect George to seem like a somewhat different player for us, just because we don't have Duncan, Parker and Manu - we don't even have 1 player like those guys who have all won multiple championships. We also don't have Pop as our coach. So I expect George to be more aggressive as a Pacer

    The thing I always liked about George whenever I watched him play was his toughness. Sure he has some weaknesses, but toughness is extremely important
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-11-2011 at 10:34 AM.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Thanks for posting and giving us the insight on Hill.
    I'm interested in knowing. how do you or other Spurs fans feel about the trade?

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Thanks for the report. Everything you've said is exactly what I've been saying about him, but it helps to have people who watch every game of his share their thoughts.

    He's very much like a current Pacer, Darren Collison, in his strengths and weaknesses. I view him as a slightly better version of Darren.

    He'll definitely be used differently here than he was in San Antonio; at least I hope so. There's still a lot to learn about his game because his role for the Spurs was so simple. He's very effective in the corners, but I think the Spurs had him in the corners way too much and it limited his overall effectiveness. He spent almost all of his time there, and I think San Antonio's offense moved/looked better when George was on the bench. I also think he spent too much time guarding bigger positions, even small forwards, but that's because he may have been the best option between him, Tony and Manu, who spent quite a bit of time together on the court. He looks equally solid on average point guards and shooting guards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    I have been wondering about his ability to take the ball to the rim, any insight on that
    I know you want tiMVP's answer, but George is pretty good when he does it. He has no problem getting to the rim, and has the ability to finish strong and make tough shots, though he misses some of the easier ones sometimes. He can lay it in, but he also has a teardrop that I'm assuming he picked up from Parker.

    Still, I hope he drives a lot more than he did for the Spurs. I think it will open up his mid-range game (which looks like it could be very good...even one of his top strengths if used effectively) and his outside game. Hopefully tiMVP can provide some insight here.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    One other thing, about George Hill bogging down an offense when playing the point. With the Point Guards that have been Pacers the last few years, I wonder if we'd even notice.
    I'll notice because having a point guard with vision and the ability to get easy shots for a team full of players that can't create their own shot is still our biggest weakness. I think both Collison and Hill deserve a lot of playing time, but one of them becomes expendable if we get a real point guard here.

    I'm not counting on it, but it would be perfect if Lance got his act together and could play with these guys. I can't think of a better combo than Lance/Hill; they complement each other so much it's ridiculous. Lance can drive to the middle and knows exactly when to make the kickout pass. He'd get Hill so many open 3s that our offense would become really efficient. And on defense, having Hill on the court allows Lance to slide over to guard SGs which helps cover up his lateral quickness.

    Also, Hill is very good in transition. Him and Lance together in transition will work. Add Paul George to the mix, who's amazing at running to the rim (though we'd never know since he was rarely rewarded for it last season), and suddenly we have our first fast break team since Mark Jackson was here.
    Last edited by imawhat; 07-11-2011 at 11:20 AM.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    This post provides an interesting contrast with the general national media interpretation of Hill's game and their projections towards how he will play for the Pacers. Most guys seem to think that Hill was "shackled" to a certain extent in San Antonio's offense, and that he will, to an extent, break out in Indiana's less structured system. There's probably some truth to that, but tiMVP seems to be saying that Hill's shackles may have been self imposed as much as they were Popavich imposed.

    I agree with Buck in that we will probably see a different George Hill now that he's not playing with HoF type players every night. We've heard from several different assessments that he's a fairly cerebral player, so I'm sure that in his mind taking shots away from Hibbert, Granger, George, etc. is a lot different and less harmful to the team than taking shots away from guys like Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. Hill is most likely our second best player right now. Hopefully he realizes that offensively.

    Hicks, I've also been thinking the same thing about him being a great PG for O'Brien's offense.

    I think that Vogel and his atmosphere of unconditional positive regard will probably be good for Hill. Pop is notoriously hard on players; Vogel is just the opposite. I think that will help Hill to assert himself a bit more. Hill was a huge scorer in college. Hopefully we can see him re-gain some of that swagger.
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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I'm not counting on it, but it would be perfect if Lance got his act together and could play with these guys. I can't think of a better combo than Lance/Hill; they complement each other so much it's ridiculous. Lance can drive to the middle and knows exactly when to make the kickout pass. He'd get Hill so many open 3s that our offense would become really efficient. And on defense, having Hill on the court allows Lance to slide over to guard SGs which helps cover up his lateral quickness.
    I've been thinking the same thing. People like to say that 2 combo guards does not make a PG, but with good coaching and complementary skill sets I don't know why not.
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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I view him as a slightly better version of Darren.
    I view him as a slightly worse version but with defense.
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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Hill is most likely our second best player right now.
    Woah.
    There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I'll notice because having a point guard with vision and the ability to get easy shots for a team full of players that can't create their own shot is still our biggest weakness. I think both Collison and Hill deserve a lot of playing time, but one of them becomes expendable if we get a real point guard here.

    I'm not counting on it, but it would be perfect if Lance got his act together and could play with these guys. I can't think of a better combo than Lance/Hill; they complement each other so much it's ridiculous. Lance can drive to the middle and knows exactly when to make the kickout pass. He'd get Hill so many open 3s that our offense would become really efficient. And on defense, having Hill on the court allows Lance to slide over to guard SGs which helps cover up his lateral quickness.

    Also, Hill is very good in transition. Him and Lance together in transition will work. Add Paul George to the mix, who's amazing at running to the rim (though we'd never know since he was rarely rewarded for it last season), and suddenly we have our first fast break team since Mark Jackson was here.
    QFT!

    I hate it because I think of how many ways it can get screwed up, but how incredible the Born Ready/Indiana George combo could be.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    I'm not counting on it, but it would be perfect if Lance got his act together and could play with these guys. I can't think of a better combo than Lance/Hill; they complement each other so much it's ridiculous. Lance can drive to the middle and knows exactly when to make the kickout pass.
    I'm with you. I remember those posts where you showed frame by frame how Lance made perfect kickout passes.

    He's very much like a current Pacer, Darren Collison, in his strengths and weaknesses. I view him as a slightly better version of Darren.
    Huh?

    Darren is a terrible defender. Hill an excellent one.

    Perhaps you were thinking just offensively.
    .

    .

    .

    .


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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    I also have been hoping Hill and Lance can share the court together. Either one can bring the ball up the court and if Lance keeps working on his game he should be the better passer of the two. On defense Hill will guard the better guard. That should cover up Lances weakness on defense. They could make a perfect backup duo.
    Lets just hope Lance keeps working on his game now that Clark is banned form working with him.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I view him as a slightly worse version but with defense.
    ... which would make him, overall, more than slightly better.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    By the way, I watched some of Hill's game on Synergy yesterday. One thing I noticed is that he can be pretty darn effective when he gets multiple screens to run around off of the ball.

    The most common setup I saw was when Hill would dribble the ball up the court, the other guard would curl up to the top of the key, Hill would feed him, and then the other 3 players on the court would stay relatively still for a moment, and they acted as three different spots where Hill could lose his man via the screens they would set.

    Typically, Hill would always first run along the two strong-side pickers (the two on his side of the floor, that is) and curl down towards the baseline, and then he'd take what the defense gave him.

    If George thought he could get open by it, he'd reverse course and curl back out to towards the corner or the wing, and the ball handler would find him for an open jumper from either 3 or midrange, which he does a decent job of hitting.

    Otherwise, he could also just keep creating space between he and his man by continuing on underneath the basket, where the 3rd picker would give him one last bit of breathing room, where he would then be fed the ball for the same kind of shot.

    George would use the fact that he could go either way to keep his man wondering, which made it easier for him to juke himself open one way or another.

    I certainly hope we run a similar play for him here periodically.

    It reminded me how Reggie and Rip have run around like that. They were better, but he's good at it.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I have been wondering about his ability to take the ball to the rim, any insight on that?
    As imawhat touched on earlier in the thread, George has great ability to get to the rim and finish there. His long arms make it hard for defenders to contest his shot at times and he has definitely taken a page out of tony parkers book with the "floater" in the lane.

    He is also deadly in the open court. His speed from baseline to baseline is very quick.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    Thanks for posting and giving us the insight on Hill.
    I'm interested in knowing. how do you or other Spurs fans feel about the trade?
    Spurs fans are staying pretty reserve so far regarding the trade. I'm not sure if you guys really understand how big of a piece he was in our system the last 2 years. He has been our 4th best player (behind the big 3) and it isn't even close, so it is definitely hard and to an extent shocking to see him go.

    Saying that, It's hard to go against what the Spurs FO does and everyone is pretty much giving them the benefit of the doubt regarding this trade.

    With the emergence of Gary Neal in a Spurs uniform and rookie James Anderson from Oklahoma State sitting in the fold (who the Spurs are extremely high on) it seemed the George was the only piece with good value that was expendable. Coach Pop has termed George Hill his "favorite player" since he joined the Spurs 3 years ago and has recently said it was one of the hardest things he has ever done in his tenure here.

    Another reason for the move is his contract issue, with George becoming a FA next off-season, I am not quite sure the Spurs were ready to fork over 6-7 mil/season to keep him which I believe will be his going rate (depending on the new CBA).

    With all that in mind the Spurs are getting a player in Kawhi Leonard who definitely fills a need and gap at the 3 since all we have is that abomination of a player Richard Jefferson at that position.

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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    He'll definitely be used differently here than he was in San Antonio; at least I hope so. There's still a lot to learn about his game because his role for the Spurs was so simple. He's very effective in the corners, but I think the Spurs had him in the corners way too much and it limited his overall effectiveness. He spent almost all of his time there, and I think San Antonio's offense moved/looked better when George was on the bench. I also think he spent too much time guarding bigger positions, even small forwards, but that's because he may have been the best option between him, Tony and Manu, who spent quite a bit of time together on the court. He looks equally solid on average point guards and shooting guards.
    I wouldn't read too much into him spending most of his time in the corners. The whole Spurs offense is predicated on the High P&R with either Tony or Manu penetrating off the screen and kicks the ball out for an open 3. Whoever is not Tony or Manu pretty much sits in the corner and waits for an open 3 ball (see Bruce Bowen).. So simple, yet so effective.

    George definitely had his opportunities to run the offense when Tony and Manu were on the bench or missing the game entirely and with how the Spurs run there offense, he simply isn't a great fit at PG in this particular system. He definitely played his best ball playing off of Tony at the 2 position.

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    George Hill Apologist mattie's Avatar
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    Default Re: George Hill... from a Spurs fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    wait aren't you the one who said the Pacers stole Hill and gave up nothing for him while i was the one who said it was good for both teams?
    Once again to ever think the 15th pick is equal to an established player like Hill is absolutely ludicrous. Of course I think it'll work out for both teams. I don't think the Spurs had the money to sign Hill, so going for a draft pick is a good move for them.

    Edit- and I'm pretty confident you're probably one of those from the "trade granger for OJ Mayo/Hill sucks" group anyway. Not really going to look up your negative thoughts on the trade.
    Last edited by mattie; 07-11-2011 at 02:18 PM.

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