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Thread: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

  1. #51
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    How cant you? They said they knew he had a bum knee. Which was never gonna be the same again from what doctors said.

    Roy is the franchise. it would have been like the pacers not re-signing Reggie back in 1999. Unless the injury is such that it is a 100% sure thing that the player is done, you re-sign him.

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  3. #52
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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Should be interesting, that's about all we know for certain. Pritchard will keep it interesting.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Also, I don't see Pritchard being nearly as trade happy with us as he was with Portland. He doesn't have the money to make those type of risks and buy all sorts of picks anymore.

    And I don't see anything guaranteeing Pritch is gonna be "the guy" after Bird retires. So even if he found a way to go all trade crazy, there's gonna be someone over him saying, "Nah, dude."

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Roy is the franchise. it would have been like the pacers not re-signing Reggie back in 1999. Unless the injury is such that it is a 100% sure thing that the player is done, you re-sign him.

    The Trail Blazers were aware that Brandon Roy had bad knees when they drafted him in 2006, and they knew he had no meniscus left in either knee when they gave him a five-year, $82 million maximum contract last summer, team president Larry Miller said on Thursday.

    Roy, 26, is sitting out the second of three consecutive games tonight because of swelling and pain in his left knee. Roy revealed last week that after his 2008 surgery on his left knee, and the 2010 surgery on his right knee, he no longer had meniscus in either knee.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/in..._miller_1.html

    no way in hell i would of resigned Reggie with no meniscus. I mean every time he jumps or moves his knees hurt. Just bad business. I understand how hard it would be because he is the franchise. I mean they are in a siuation that we were in with JO terrible business move Now Roy will proably be hated in Portland after his career is done for being so over paid for so long like JO. I would offer him a deal for some money but no way in hell a max level deal

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  8. #55
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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    here is a good article about the Blazers decision to re-sign Roy

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...tract/related/

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    I wonder if Pritchard will want to bring Oden in here to let him try and prove himself. Not advocating for or against it, just interesting to think about.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

  11. #57

    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    This article popped up a couple days ago and is now relevant to this thread.

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...n-over-durant/

    Pritchard talks Paul Allen, choosing Oden over Durant

    Kurt Helin
    Jul 6, 2011, 3:09 PM EDT


    Kevin Pritchard was the hottest general manager in the league, the guy who changed the culture in Portland from the “Jail Blazers” to a young team on the rise.
    Then he got fired. Abruptly. Reportedly because owner Paul Allen and his tight circle didn’t like Prichard and the credit he was getting for turning around the team. (So, Portland hired Rich Cho, who made some smart moves but lasted one year and got fired again by Allen, leaving a lot of people around the league wondering what is going on up in the Northwest.)
    Prichard went on The Game sports talk radio in Portland recently and talked about a lot of things (via Sports Radio Interviews). Including what it was like to work with Paul Allen (one of the co-founders of Microsoft).
    “He’s very complete in that he wants you to do the work and get to a certain place and then he’s going to challenge it…. He provided a lot of value with that and I learned a lot. He’s very demanding. Every single day, in the seven and a half years I was there, I’m not sure there were many days that we didn’t communicate at least by e-mail or by phone, but he’s very interested and I welcomed that. We had developed a great relationship the first four or five years I was there and we had an ability to talk pretty quickly and get down to the main issues, but he’s demanding and he’s tough.”
    Pritchard was known as a very good drafter (he maneuvered to get Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge in the same draft). He also selected Greg Oden over Kevin Durant, and he talked about that choice.
    The overwhelming thing that we got from everybody we talked to was (Oden) doesn’t care if he scores or does anything, but he’s about winning. We had been really trying to change our culture for guys who really put the team first, not care about stats, and really be about winning. We thought he was the pick at the time. We did the same thing with Durant. They said he’s gonna be the best scorer in the league, he’s going to be an amazing player, and he’s gonna win. We just felt like Greg was going to be that guy that just doesn’t lose basketball games. Right before he got hurt we were talking as a management group and we were like man doesn’t it feel like this is becoming a little bit like Greg’s team because in the locker room after a loss he would get really, really upset and he demands out of his teammates probably more than any other player I’ve been around other than Larry Bird. When he lost, he let his teammates knows what they have to do the next game.
    Oden’s body betrayed him, and the question is should Pritchard and the Blazers said they saw it coming. But you year a lot of revisionist history from team executives now about how they would have taken Durant — that’s crap. Almost to a man front offices at the time said they would have taken Oden.


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  13. #58
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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by imawhat View Post
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    This article popped up a couple days ago and is now relevant to this thread.

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...n-over-durant/

    Pritchard talks Paul Allen, choosing Oden over Durant

    Kurt Helin
    Jul 6, 2011, 3:09 PM EDT


    Kevin Pritchard was the hottest general manager in the league, the guy who changed the culture in Portland from the “Jail Blazers” to a young team on the rise.
    Then he got fired. Abruptly. Reportedly because owner Paul Allen and his tight circle didn’t like Prichard and the credit he was getting for turning around the team. (So, Portland hired Rich Cho, who made some smart moves but lasted one year and got fired again by Allen, leaving a lot of people around the league wondering what is going on up in the Northwest.)
    Prichard went on The Game sports talk radio in Portland recently and talked about a lot of things (via Sports Radio Interviews). Including what it was like to work with Paul Allen (one of the co-founders of Microsoft).
    “He’s very complete in that he wants you to do the work and get to a certain place and then he’s going to challenge it…. He provided a lot of value with that and I learned a lot. He’s very demanding. Every single day, in the seven and a half years I was there, I’m not sure there were many days that we didn’t communicate at least by e-mail or by phone, but he’s very interested and I welcomed that. We had developed a great relationship the first four or five years I was there and we had an ability to talk pretty quickly and get down to the main issues, but he’s demanding and he’s tough.”
    Pritchard was known as a very good drafter (he maneuvered to get Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge in the same draft). He also selected Greg Oden over Kevin Durant, and he talked about that choice.
    The overwhelming thing that we got from everybody we talked to was (Oden) doesn’t care if he scores or does anything, but he’s about winning. We had been really trying to change our culture for guys who really put the team first, not care about stats, and really be about winning. We thought he was the pick at the time. We did the same thing with Durant. They said he’s gonna be the best scorer in the league, he’s going to be an amazing player, and he’s gonna win. We just felt like Greg was going to be that guy that just doesn’t lose basketball games. Right before he got hurt we were talking as a management group and we were like man doesn’t it feel like this is becoming a little bit like Greg’s team because in the locker room after a loss he would get really, really upset and he demands out of his teammates probably more than any other player I’ve been around other than Larry Bird. When he lost, he let his teammates knows what they have to do the next game.
    Oden’s body betrayed him, and the question is should Pritchard and the Blazers said they saw it coming. But you year a lot of revisionist history from team executives now about how they would have taken Durant — that’s crap. Almost to a man front offices at the time said they would have taken Oden.
    Haha, posted that on Page 1.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by BPump33 View Post
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    I wonder if Pritchard will want to bring Oden in here to let him try and prove himself. Not advocating for or against it, just interesting to think about.

    I think Oden's career is over, however if the entire season is lost and the next season starts in 2012 that should answer any questions about Oden's ability to return. If he still can't play by Oct. 2012, I'd think everyone would give up on him. Of course if the season is lost it kind makes Portland's decision to give him the qualifying offer a good one. They lose nothing due to the lockout, and may still have Bird rights if Bird rights still exist.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Wells just mentioned Vogel is interviewing Jim Boylen for the 3rd asst (on the grady and big joe show on 1070) That would be very good!

  16. #61

    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
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    Haha, posted that on Page 1.
    Oops! I should've clicked that link.

  17. #62

    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    It is absolutely relevant. If you want to make a trade, you're making a phone call to another human being. Pissing them off isn't going to help with that. I thought I even recall him taunting people on the phone. Hopefully it was more of a playful thing that's been misrepresented. If not, however, ....
    I think his work with the Jailblazers speaks for itself.

  18. #63
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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    If Pritchard were given a free hand, I'd expect huge improvements in our stat-based scouting and international scouting, both of which are relatively weak areas for the Pacers IMO.

    Here's some snippets from a Pritchard article from Sloan Sports Conference in 2010. It's a long, rambling article, so I won't post the whole thing. But I think it's revealing of his philosophy and methods.

    http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/3/9/...st-has-its-day

    How do Blazers coaches and players incorporate the study of advanced statistics on a daily basis? You might remember Nate McMillan told me that advanced statistics are something that he has access to but that he prefers breaking down video tape. When asked whether he used stats to guide offseason personnel moves or in-season adjustments, Pritchard leaned more heavily towards the former. But he did say, "I do believe there's huge value in applying [stats] to the coaching staff" and he spoke of "educating coaches" regarding the tendencies of their own players and opponents.

    As for the players, I've mentioned this year that both Brandon Roy and Nicolas Batum seem particularly interested in the pregame scouting reports prepared for them by the team. Discussing that interest, Pritchard said that it varied from player to player but that the biggest concern is ensuring that management, coaching staff and players are all on the same page when it comes to the potential offensive and defensive adjustments that might be suggested by the numbers. "I think it's all individual dependent. Some players love as much data as they can get," Pritchard said. "The data is available, our assistant coaches know it. The biggest key going forward is making sure everyone is speaking on the same level." This thought echoed what a number of other executives and observers -- including Simmons -- mentioned throughout the day: that statistical analysis only has value if it is communicated cleanly from source to players.
    Of all the panelists, Pritchard seemed to place the most value on the draft process as a way to improve his team. "The draft has been very important for us," he stated emphatically. The main reason? Rookie scale contracts. Because rookies are paid according to a specific, relatively modest scale, there is a great benefit to having a number of contributors on their rookie deals simultaneously. As I mentioned yesterday, the Blazers have 5 members of their rotation -- Cunningham, Jeff Pendergraph, Jerryd Bayless, Rudy Fernandez and Nicolas Batum -- who will combine to make less than a single veteran, Joel Przybilla, who might not actually suit up at all due to injury. The combined impact of those players, both on the court and on the books, is almost immeasurable.

    It might be helpful to view players on their rookie deals as the prototypical "undervalued asset" from Michael Lewis's Moneyball. In that book, Lewis writes that 10 years ago the Major League Baseball market generally undervalued the ability to draw walks. Players that could regularly draw walks, get on base and eventually be driven in by their teammates were significantly easier and cheaper to acquire than their impact on wins and losses suggested they should be. In the current NBA market, where a team might sell off a second round draft pick and think nothing of it, that draft pick and the salary owed to it has become undervalued. If you can find a rookie who is ready to contribute immediately and is locked into a certain salary structure, his contributions per dollar spent will almost certainly exceed an average NBA veteran who requires a substantially higher salary. "Sometimes you have a great talent but it doesn't make sense with the contract," Pritchard lamented. This helps explain why the team has opted to pass on veteran acquisitions in the past and instead honed in on NBA-ready, 4-year college players such as Cunningham and Pendergraph when filling out its roster.

    That search for value has guided the Blazers' recent free agency and trade moves too. Put simply, the Blazers are engaging in a form of risk assessment: The more a potential acquisition might cost, the more potential damage he can do to the team's salary cap flexibility. Mark Cuban praised the Blazers moves over the last few years, stating simply, "Who you are not picking up is as telling as who you are picking up."
    As the panel began to draw to a close, Pritchard repeated two points made earlier in the day by Bill Polian, the highly-respected architect and President of the Indianapolis Colts. First, that statistical analysis can be very effective in reinforcing an organizational philosophy. Polian pointed out that he might evaluate a nose tackle totally differently than the New England Patriots and that the two teams' systems were so different and complicated that trying to swap players from one team to another would be an almost meaningless exercise. "We all see certain [statistical] things that are very important to us. It may be different for Denver," Pritchard repeated. "If we're about A, B,C, D and E [statistically] and those things trickle down to what we do [on the court as a team and off the court as an organization], that helps us have the best data. It doesn't mean that's the best data for Denver too. It just means that data is best for us."

    Second, that statistical analysis cannot guarantee victories but it can go a long way to establishing a winning organization. Polian stated the best talent evaluators in the NFL really only succeed about 55% of the time despite all of the elaborate measurement techniques they use. Pritchard stated that he believed the success rate was similar in the NBA and that building a team built for long-term success versus building a title team was comparable to playing the stock market. "It's sort of like the S&P 500. You can beat the S&P 500 every year but if you're trying to be #1 in our sport, you have to take huge risks."

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    I think his work with the Jailblazers speaks for itself.
    He took a team full of criminals and miscreants and brought them back to being a playoff team but not a true contender.

    Or exactly the spot the Pacers are in right now only without a player nearly as good as Aldridge or a healthy Roy.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Nobody saw Durant blowing up like he did. Nobody!
    Of course people did.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I will never fault him for re-signing Roy
    He knew he had a bad knee (the one that's already ended his time as a star player), and he not only offered Roy more money than the owners told him to, he's alleged to have been coercing WITH Roy so that they both might get lucrative new contracts at the time (Pritchard was fishing for an extension of his own).

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  25. #67

    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    I have no idea what really happened with Pritchard in Portland but after them dumping Cho for no reason and a lot of stuff you hear their fans say about their ownership group on BlazersEdge I take any rumors outta Portland with a pretty big grain of salt.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
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    I think his point is that Roy's talent was worth the risk.

    I think, though, that Paul Allen's buddies have that franchise in as big a mess as I've seen. Cho, Pritchard....was either guy really the problem there?
    It's a risk when you think there's a chance his knee is done. It's just dumb when you KNOW his knee is done.

  28. #69

    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    That concerns me a bit. He let personal dissatisfaction get in the way of his professionalism.

    Paul Allen is more spendy than Simon.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Wells made it pretty clear that for this season Pritchard would be working under Bird and Morway, but the question all season will be what happens in the chain of command once Larry officially leaves.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Roy is the franchise. it would have been like the pacers not re-signing Reggie back in 1999. Unless the injury is such that it is a 100% sure thing that the player is done, you re-sign him.
    And from everything I've come across on it, this is as close to 100% as you can get short of his leg falling off.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Of course people did.
    I mean he was arguably the #1 prospect that year 6'11 and could score at will in college and had a freakish standing reach and wingspan like a center.(i mean that is as rare as a 7fter like greg. I mean i assume Portland thought Durant and Oden would be superstars.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
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    He took a team full of criminals and miscreants and brought them back to being a playoff team but not a true contender.

    Or exactly the spot the Pacers are in right now only without a player nearly as good as Aldridge or a healthy Roy.
    You know, if Oden and Roy were healthy, I actually that's a team that could have been a contender.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by Foul on Smits View Post
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    I think his work with the Jailblazers speaks for itself.
    I hope you and everyone else realizes that I'm not trying to be balanced right now when it comes to Pritchard: I'm just trying to analyze his cons.

    Yes, he has his positives; no doubt about it.

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    Default Re: So we're hiring Kevin Pritchard...

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    If Pritchard were given a free hand, I'd expect huge improvements in our stat-based scouting and international scouting, both of which are relatively weak areas for the Pacers IMO.
    But I thought we'd already hired (I don't know his name) one of the top advanced stat guys out there already; a couple of years ago, I think?

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