Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

  1. #1
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583
    Mood

    Default Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    I enjoyed this one.

    http://www.indystar.com/article/2011...-ve-gotta-love

    Bob Kravitz
    IndyStar.com

    If you don't feel good about Frank Vogel and his new, full-time gig as the Pacers head coach, there's a pretty good chance you lack a beating heart.

    Don't we all love a good underdog story? Don't we like it when somebody takes a leap of faith, like the one a young Vogel took when he left Division III Juniata to talk his way onto Rick Pitino's Kentucky staff, and makes it work? Isn't there something to be said for coming into an adverse circumstance, doing an audition when nobody thinks you'll get the part and absolutely nailing it?

    "Interim" is actually a Latin term meaning, "You'll just keep the chair warm while we look for a more established guy like Rick Adelman." But Vogel didn't conform to the role of temporary caretaker. He walked onto the big stage and talked almost immediately about changing the team's personality and making the playoffs. He acted like he had nothing to lose, and he walked away the biggest winner of all.

    "I never thought (moving from Juniata to Kentucky) would lead to this, this quickly," Vogel said Wednesday. "I never thought I'd be in pro basketball. I just wanted a career. I would have been happy at any level of basketball, as long as it was full time."

    Vogel did an amazing thing last season that went well beyond the 20-18 regular-season finish and one of the most competitive five-game playoff series in NBA history. He made people -- players, fans, everybody -- feel good about the Indiana Pacers. He was a hurricane of fresh air, and while he could be a little over-the-top at times, his earnest bravado resonated with his players and with a city that had stopped paying attention.

    Here's how transformational Vogel was. If he hadn't come along and guided the Pacers to the playoffs, there's every reason to believe Larry Bird, David Morway and everybody else on the staff would have been sent packing.

    This is a guy, an interim coach, who entered Game 5 of the Bulls series by saying, "If we win this game, we'll win the series."

    Don't change, Frank.

    Do. Not. Change.

    There was a lot of consternation, or at least confusion, about the extended time it took for the Pacers to do what we all expected them to do weeks ago. But it didn't seem to bother Vogel -- although, let's be honest, if it bothered him, do you think he'd say it? He would have run with the bulls in Pamplona for this job. Naked.

    "I never felt disrespected or anything like that," Vogel said. "I never really felt certain I had the job until three days ago, but there was never a point, either, when I thought they were close to giving it to somebody else. I always felt like the front office here was communicating with me constantly and looking out for me."

    The timing was odd, but it made sense. More than anything, Bird wanted Vogel to upgrade his staff. That's not a shot at the assistants who were let go, but it's hard to argue that Brian Shaw -- unofficial, still, but official enough -- isn't a major upgrade.

    When Bird became coach, he surrounded himself with two top assistants, Rick Carlisle and Dick Harter. He wanted the same for Vogel.

    "Look, I did this and wanted him to do the same thing: give himself a chance," Bird said. "Frank is a better coach than I ever thought about being, but we can't have those locker room issues again, and we won't.

    "That's not the head coach's job. That's the assistants'. Those are fires they've got to put out right away. Communication is a must -- with some players, daily. If they sense a player is down or isn't doing what he needs to do, it's the assistants' job to address it, and if it continues, then take it to the head coach. Assistants have to take a lot of tough stances. So you have to have a staff that all the players respect."

    A two-year deal with a team option for a third isn't exactly an overwhelming commitment, but Vogel was in no position to make demands.

    At this point, everybody in the organization is on a relatively short leash, most notably Bird, who said he's going "one year at a time" and giving Herb Simon the option of firing him if the owner sees fit.

    "I'm beyond a three- or four-year contract," Bird said. "Herb has been too good to me and my family for 11 years. I want him to be able to go in another direction whenever he feels the time is right."

    So finally -- finally -- Frank Vogel is an NBA coach.

    He just doesn't have any players.

    Crazy.

    And he has no idea when he'll have a chance to get to work.

    They take their lockouts seriously in the NBA. Before Wednesday's news conference, Bird and Vogel had to be briefed on what they could and couldn't say. Already, Bird has been warned by the league for something he said in a recent interview. On the team's website, there is nary a mention of a single player. It's impermissible for Pacers employees to so much as re-tweet a player's tweet.

    "Sorry I couldn't say much," Vogel told me later.

    He probably should have reprised his "Stupid Human Trick" of spinning a basketball on a toothbrush. But that might warrant a fine from the commissioner.

    Crazy times.

    At least now the Pacers have a worthy and inspiring coach, a young guy who came from nowhere and, we dare say, passed the audition.

    All he needs is some players.

  2. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  3. #2
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,528

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    I am probably setting myself up for a big fall.

    But.....................

    I Believe!!!!


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  4. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Peck For This Useful Post:


  5. #3
    Redemption. docpaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Noblesville, IN
    Posts
    1,685

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Hmm, what do you know. Kravitz can actually write. He actually understands what he's writing about here as well.

    Instead of being a prognosticator of the sport, Kravitz should instead focus instead on helping the community get to know the Pacers better, and share the good and bad of what the team is all about. This is where he might be more effective.

    The takeaway for me is that Vogel is a great example of how one effectively leads. Bird has also done a pretty fantastic job of helping enable him to succeed.

    I'm buying more of what they're selling.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to docpaul For This Useful Post:


  7. #4

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    What I like about the situation is that Bird has been thru a short season already. And did pretty well. Depending on how the lockout goes, Vogel & Bird could really be a heady combination.

  8. #5
    Chairman of the Boards 90'sNBARocked's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Chicago, but Brooklyn/Naptown Raised!!
    Posts
    7,603

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    one of the most competitive five-game playoff series in NBA history.
    Thats some funny *** right there Bob
    Sittin on top of the world!

  9. #6
    Shooting for the Moon Day-V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    SoBro
    Age
    25
    Posts
    4,307
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    If you don't feel good about Frank Vogel and his new, full-time gig as the Pacers head coach, there's a pretty good chance you lack a beating heart.
    I know quite a few of them reside here on PD.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Day-V For This Useful Post:


  11. #7

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    I think hopefully once Brian Shaw is added to the staff, he and Vogel will work together great.

    In his second year, Vogel is the official head coach. This is his group of guys and I don't think he will tolerate **** like he did last season.

    Brian Shaw demands respect and maturity from his players. He worked very well with the Lakers and helped those guys out a lot.
    In 49 states it's just basketball, but this is Indiana!

  12. #8
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Danberry
    Age
    54
    Posts
    11,468

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I know quite a few of them reside here on PD.
    Who would you be referring to? Haven't seen anyone come down against this, either before or after the announcement.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

  13. #9
    BornRodney ECKrueger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Age
    23
    Posts
    3,927

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    I agree with Peck. Right or wrong, smart or not, I am totally on board with Frank Vogel and believe in the Pacers again.

  14. #10
    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    52,583
    Mood

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    I'd be more pumped up if not for this ****ing lockout. (!)

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Hicks For This Useful Post:


  16. #11
    Member Sparhawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Age
    34
    Posts
    5,234

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Super pumped!
    Lance + Starting SG = Awesome

    Now really free Lance!

  17. #12
    Danny Granger PowerRanger DGPR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Whiteland, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,029

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Somebody hacked Bob Kravitz.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

  18. #13
    BornRodney ECKrueger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Age
    23
    Posts
    3,927

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Ultra pumped!

  19. #14
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Good for Frank.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  20. #15
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Free Lance!
    Posts
    8,063

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Quote Originally Posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Thats some funny *** right there Bob
    That was my first reaction. Then, when I thought about it, it's not too much of a stretch.

    Usually a five game series is very one-sided.
    .

    .

    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  21. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lifelong Indy-area resident
    Age
    62
    Posts
    4,646

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Kravitz: Vogel's rise is an underdog story you've gotta love

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That was my first reaction. Then, when I thought about it, it's not too much of a stretch.

    Usually a five game series is very one-sided.
    True. I think that one thing that will result from the series is a review/reconsideration of the rules involving charges/blocks of driving players near the rim.

    Some will state obviously state that no review is necessary, that the standing guidelines merely need to be enforced. However, I believe that there has been enough discussion with the league office regarding how the existing rules were enforced during the first couple games of the series that we will see a shift in how they are enforced next season.

    And, I'll go as far to say that had the observance of the guidelines been closer to a 50-50 split the first couple of games, that there is that chance that the Pacers might have lucked through and advanced. The series was close, it would not have taken much to enable that to happen.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-02-2010, 02:30 AM
  2. Mount Rushmore of Pacers
    By Major Cold in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 03-01-2009, 04:29 PM
  3. The story ESPN doesn't want you to know- Foxsports
    By Suaveness in forum Market Square (General Non-Sports Discussion)
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 01-16-2009, 12:10 PM
  4. Tbird draft analysis: Kevin Love
    By thunderbird1245 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 05-18-2008, 05:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •