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Thread: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

  1. #126
    Over the pond ballism's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Idk why someone wouldn't like to live in Paris or Rome because of location. It's about money, stability and image of the league (which leads to shoe deals etc).
    Sure, there's the thing of acclimatization in a foreign country. But everyone gets over it, so I'm not sure why US players wouldn't. Euro soccer leagues seem to attract US players just fine.

  2. #127
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I totally disagree, the NBA is a result of developing the best players in the world. Thats what makes it the best of the best. If the best players of the NBA leave for Europe it will cheapen their accomplishments. The level of competition will not match the NBA. You would expect these elite level players to win all sorts of European Championships. I can see it now, Kobe could average +30 over in Europe. The reaction will be hell, why not more? Look who he is playing against!
    I don't buy this. Great players are going to be great anywhere. Sure, the NBA may be the most competitive league and may hone the players' skills better...but unless someone is attempting to come back to the US at the age of 34 after being there 5 years...I would say it's a non-factor. One or two years will change nothing either in their skill level or their reputations. Give me an example of someone who lost their edge after one year overseas...and returned less effective.

  3. #128
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=6753259

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Broussard
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    SAN DIEGO -- Though he plans to play in Turkey during the lockout, New Jersey Nets point guard Deron Williams will rejoin the NBA as soon as an agreement on a collective bargaining agreement is reached. But if the owners break the players and get the proposal they're pushing for, Williams believes some stars could opt to play overseas long term.

    "If the proposal (the owners) have, if that's what they're sticking with and that's what they want, then I think it would be hard for a lot of guys to come back to the NBA," Williams said Friday in an interview at a private golf resort in San Diego.

    Williams said any collective bargaining agreement that would leave stars such as Kobe Bryant making only $11 million a year -- the owners have proposed cutting players' salaries by roughly a third -- could open the door for an unprecedented exodus to Europe.

    "(Kobe) could go make more money overseas, I guarantee you." said Williams, who has a one-year, $5 million deal with Besiktas. "If (European teams) knew he could be there for a full season, or they knew I could be there for a full season, or they knew LeBron James could be there for a full season, they'll pay more money, of course."

    If other stars follow Williams to Europe during the lockout, it could be a blow to the league's owners, giving the players' union the leverage it needs to fight off the owners' demands. Williams said he spoke with the union before agreeing to play in Turkey to make sure he wasn't damaging its cause. He said NBPA executive director Billy Hunter was in favor of the move.

    "I talked to Mr. Hunter and he said he supported it," Williams said. "He was happy for me. He thought I made a great decision, a business decision. He was behind me."

    Williams' new coach, Ergin Ataman of Besiktas, has said he hopes to sign Bryant to play alongside Williams. But Williams can see Bryant signing elsewhere first.

    "I see him going to China or somewhere," said Williams, who teamed with Bryant to help the U.S. win the gold medal at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. "He's big in China. I was over there with him in Beijing. He's 'The Man' over there."

    Williams said he has not spoken with Bryant, but he estimates he's heard from 10 to 15 other players, some of them superstars, since his decision to play overseas became public. He said many players are willing to follow his lead.

    "I've talked to a lot of players, you would be surprised," he said, refusing to name names. "I talked to a few before and I knew some guys were considering it as well. But since it came out, it was just like a snowball of guys calling me (saying) 'What are you doing? When are you leaving?' And guys want to go too. They want to do it."

    Williams said he started thinking about playing overseas two years ago, when the union began telling players a lockout was likely. While he has not been allowed to speak with the Nets since the lockout was imposed on July 1, Williams made them aware of his intentions before the work stoppage.

    Williams, who has two years and $34 million remaining on his deal, can opt out next summer. If the entire season is lost to the lockout, it could mean he never plays another game for the Nets. With the club scheduled to move to Brooklyn for the 2012-2013 season, that would be a crushing blow to the franchise, which traded Devin Harris, Derrick Favors and two first-round draft picks to Utah for Williams in February.

    Williams said he has not yet decided whether he will opt out, but he admitted it would be unfortunate for him and the Nets if the season is canceled.

    "I think it will kind of put a damper on things because I want to see where the Nets are going this season," Williams said. "See what kind of additions we can make, because that will definitely help. But I don't know. I still can't really say anything until the new CBA because who knows if I even can opt out? There's no telling."

    Williams spoke highly of the Nets' organization, saying he played golf with GM Billy King and coach Avery Johnson before the lockout. The club has pitched Williams on being the face of the new franchise in Brooklyn, and he likes what he's heard so far.

    "They have big dreams for Brooklyn and I can kind of picture that," he said. "It kind of excites me. I think it can be big."

    If Williams, who had surgery on his right wrist in April, were to get hurt in Turkey, the Nets could void his contract. He said he is in the process of securing personal insurance against injury just in case. But ultimately, he isn't worried about injury.

    "People say, 'Oh, you're going to get hurt,'" Williams said. "I can get hurt playing at (the University of San Diego) or wherever I'm at. I can get hurt walking down these steps. Of course, that's a big part of it. But I also did my due diligence, researched insurance. I'll be covered."

    Some have speculated that Williams, who has made more than $40 million over his six-year career, is going overseas because he needs the money. He laughed at that notion.

    "It's ridiculous," he said. "We've known this lockout's coming. I have plenty of money saved for the lockout purpose. Now, I don't even need to touch that money. I can invest that money. I can go grow that money. It's not something that's money-driven.

    "It's more about the experience. Experience and being able to compete and play basketball. I don't want to sit around. That's what the NBA wants us to do right now. They locked us out of our gyms, they locked us out of facilities. We got to go find somewhere on our own to go hoop, to put games together. I don't have to do that. I've got a team. I'm going to go through organized practices. I'm going to be in game situations. So if the lockout is lifted, I'm going to be ready to play."

    Williams has not yet signed his contract with Besiktas, but the franchise's management team is planning to come to the United States next week to wrap everything up. While there is a clause in the contract that will allow him to return to the NBA whenever the lockout ends, he doesn't see that happening quickly.

    "I don't see a deal getting done anytime soon," he said, "because we're so far apart."

    Williams spoke extensively with his former Utah Jazz teammate Mehmet Okur, who is from Turkey, before making his decision. He also spoke with former University of Illinois teammate Dee Brown, who has played professionally in Turkey. He did not get to speak with Allen Iverson, who played briefly for Besiktas last season.

    Williams will take his wife and four kids with him to Istanbul, where the team will provide them with an apartment, a car and personal security.

    "It's just different," Williams said. "There is no other time in my career that I'll be able to go live and play in another city, experience a different lifestyle, see new things. I'm looking forward to it."
    Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

    Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: @chris_broussard

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  5. #129

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The funny part in all this 3rd world country argument is that if Indiana was a country by itself, it would be a 3rd world country

  6. #130
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Deron is doing what I would expect all the players to do. That is, make use of the free market. I'm glad he's doing this.

    Am I surprised there is no talk of the NBPA forming a new league? Nope....because the NBA as it is presently constructed is not profitable for most owners. Otherwise, there would be people taking up that opportunity.

    This is why the players really only have one option and it's what Deron is doing...playing for another organized league overseas...probably for less money...because the money players make in the NBA isn't based on economics of the business. It's based on whatever a billionaire is willing to burn to have their hobby.

    So, go for it Deron. Good for you, dude. This is what it's all about...

  7. #131
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Deron Williams
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    If the proposal (the owners) have, if that's what they're sticking with and that's what they want, then I think it would be hard for a lot of guys to come back to the NBA," Williams said Friday in an interview at a private golf resort in San Diego.
    Deron Williams said that the NBA won't be financially appealing to players from A PRIVATE GOLF RESORT! HAHAHAHAHA.

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  8. #132
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
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    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=6753259


    Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

    Follow Chris Broussard on Twitter: @chris_broussard
    Total bluff.

    1) Most NBA players will make significantly less overseas, which negates the whole point of the players' stance during the lockout. They're now cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

    B) Most NBA players, particularly those with family, won't want to go overseas, especially for equal or less money.

    Personally, I hope all these spoiled players go overseas and stay there.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    It's easy to play for $5m a season when you've already made several multiples of that in your career. Try convincing players on their rookie deals that this is the life for them instead of the NBA and making more money when this is over.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Deron is as short sighted as they come.

    If a top-3 point guard in the world can only bank $5 million, what message does that send everyone else?

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Kstat View Post
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    Deron is as short sighted as they come.

    If a top-3 point guard in the world can only bank $5 million, what message does that send everyone else?
    I'm assuming it's only $5 million for two reasons:

    1. From the article: "There is a clause in the contract that will allow him to return to the NBA whenever the lockout ends." He's taking a pay cut because he has an insanely flexible opt out contract. He says later: "If (European teams) knew he could be there for a full season, or they knew I could be there for a full season, or they knew LeBron James could be there for a full season, they'll pay more money, of course." Were he to sign a true multi-year deal I doubt it would be for only 5 mil.

    2. If I remember correctly, the Euro season is shorter, around half of an NBA season, and definitely shorter than the 90+ games Williams has been playing a season for most of his career.
    Last edited by King Tuts Tomb; 07-10-2011 at 09:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Honestly, I hope that some major players follow D Will's lead. The NBA is a league of stars and without the Kobes, LeBrons, Wades, Melos and Durants the league would surely suffef. That would ultimately force the NBA's hand if all their golden geese went over seas and ran the risk of injury.

    Franchises may be able to weasel out of contracts if a player does get hurt but that would still hurt the franchise from a fan morale perspective. Imagine if Kevin Durant goes to Istanbul to play ball and all of a sudden.........How much worse would this lockout be for OKC fans. The backlash from fan bases would be tremendous.

    Low level player and guys on rookie deals are a dime a dozen. Sorry to say it but its true in the NBA. The League is driven by Star Players and if the stars revolt then the owners hand will be forced.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
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    2.) Why wouldn't they, this an odd question.
    They won't come to Indianapolis, because of it's location and we are, what, 3hr flight to Florida, and a 5hr flight to CA.

    I'm sure most NBA players would tell you that they would like to visit cities like Rome, etc, but I seriously doubt any of them are too fond of the idea of actually living there.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    A good piece by Stephen Smith. There is no way this helps the position of the players.
    The superstars get one vote to approve a new cba. The majority of nba players won't get the opportunity to play and wouldn't get a fraction of the money Williams is getting. The fact that the money that might be offered to a select few nba players is only a fraction of what the nba is offering them should clue them in that they have a pretty sweet deal.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...hen&id=6747406


    "Here's the bottom line," a league executive told me Thursday. "Not only does Williams help the Nets by remaining in basketball shape and helping to globalize the brand, but he divides the players in a way without even knowing it.
    "With the money he made last year, with him in position to collect on the $16.3 million for next season, assuming the lockout ends, if he's going to go and collect more cash in Turkey while mid-level, relatively unknown players remain here waiting for a deal -- because Turkey ain't inviting them overseas -- how is the union going to stand up and tell players they need to stand together? It ain't happening."
    It's not happening because those mid-level players are the ones who'll need the money the most. They're the ones who'll complain the loudest. And the one argument the stars normally would have on their side, about sticking together and standing unified like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady and others have done in the NFL, fly right out the window with any credibility they once had.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    What's funny is that every other NBA Player that is more established is coming out saying that they could play for some European Team. To the common fan like me, this seems more like a ploy to show the Owners that if they can't work in the US...they'll just go elsewhere to find it and get paid. In theory..not a bad strategy...but seems transparent to me.

    On a side note that is hilarious....Even Artest said that he could go play for some Team in Great Britain:

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...#ixzz1Roilng6a
    Ron Artest said he is going overseas to play during the lockout, but not where you might think.

    Instead of playing for one of the prestigious teams in southern Europe, he plans to play for either the Cheshire Jets or Glasgow Rocks of the British Basketball League.

    "The teams aren't good, but I'm going there to finish a movie, so why not?" he said.
    Artest would be playing some basketball in Great Britain against some British Team that what would be considered be the equivalent to some NCAA Division II Teams as a sidenote to filiming some Movie ( I'm guessing that he's filming a sequel to the Dennis Rodman movie, "Double Team", with Jean Claude-Van Damme ), but this is Artest we are talking about here.
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    On a side note that is hilarious....Even Artest said that he could go play for some Team in Great Britain...
    Actually, Deron Williams signing Besiktas is almost the same as Artest signing team in GB. That is not the competitive or known team. Money - is the only reason i could see.
    On the other hand - it is very hard to find a job in top european clubs. NBA players are being considered second-tier players, because nobody is considering building a team around the players who will leave by christmas or after one year. Last year Euroleague champion coach (yep - usually (not allways) the last word belongs to coach) said, that they will not sign any short-term contract. Top teams are already stacked with talent and huge contracts.
    Basicly - business is over, if some NBA player still want to go in Europe, he should do it ASAP.

    I'm really sorry because of my english (which is my 3-4 language) and I really appreciate Your patience. I hope this board will make me better

  20. #141
    Member Constellations's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Is Deron Williams married? Maybe he is going over there to meet the an exotic beauty to bring back as his wife. Judging by the recent Hardee's commerical Turkey has a lot of talent.
    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    LOL, watch him mess up his knee playing in a 3rd world country.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    As a Turk, reading this thread makes me laugh

    PS...Turkey actually has some connections to Kobe as well...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFYM4ECGpZA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebAtR5SlSMk

    so who knows what might happen...

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by DeS View Post
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    Actually, Deron Williams signing Besiktas is almost the same as Artest signing team in GB. That is not the competitive or known team. Money - is the only reason i could see.
    On the other hand - it is very hard to find a job in top european clubs. NBA players are being considered second-tier players, because nobody is considering building a team around the players who will leave by christmas or after one year. Last year Euroleague champion coach (yep - usually (not allways) the last word belongs to coach) said, that they will not sign any short-term contract. Top teams are already stacked with talent and huge contracts.
    Basicly - business is over, if some NBA player still want to go in Europe, he should do it ASAP.
    Looks like DeS and Obradovic agree with me, Ballism. The Satnta Claus party is getting bigger

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Constellations View Post
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    I don't see how they are trollish remarks at all. The first one was a freaking joke.
    The second one does not meet the definition of a trollish remark. I just said watch him get injured playing overseas.

    Trolling is making a ridiculous statement just to illicit negative comments.

    So maybe you are the troll.
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Chad Ford will have an article out sometime in the near future, should be later today or tomorrow, about Josh Childress and how he said he won't be going back to Europe.

    Here's his tweet

    @RicBucher Josh Childress, who knows a bit about playing overseas, wouldn't dream of going back during the lockout. Story filed with the mothership.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    The only aspect of the current NBA labor dispute more curious than the owners' insistence on a save-us-from-our-own-stupidity system is the growing number of players talking about playing overseas as though it's a logical alternative should the 2011-12 season be truncated or aborted.



    I can appreciate a player wanting to defy commissioner David Stern telling him he can't ply his craft, but for the vast majority of NBA players the thought of playing in Europe is reckless at best and closer to outright illogical.



    For Sonny Weems, the 25-year-old Toronto Raptors forward who made $850,000 last season, locking in a similar deal in Lithuania rather than risking a year making nothing is shrewd. Same with 33-year-old Philadelphia 76ers free agent Darius Songaila signing with Turkey's Galatasaray for $1.5 million.



    For Kobe Bryant, Ron Artest, Rudy Gay, Amare Stoudemire, Deron Williams or any other star risking his current NBA contract and future earning power, to play for a significantly smaller, non-guaranteed contract? Hardly.



    But don't take my word for it. Phoenix Suns swingman Josh Childress returned to the NBA this season after spending the previous two playing for the Grecian version of the Boston Celtics, Olympiacos. Now that he's back in the NBA, I asked if he'd consider returning to Europe to play during the lockout and jeopardize the last four years of his five-year, $33 million deal.



    "No, I wouldn't," he says. "And I don't know why guys would. I understand that guys really want to play. But you sometimes have to look at what you have and treat this as a business. The only way I could see it making sense is if you're a player from a particular country going back. But for an American player with a good-sized guaranteed deal here, I can't see why you'd do it."



    One great misnomer is that a player is just as at risk of a contract-voiding injury playing at Pauley Pavilion or in some other offseason pick-up game as playing overseas.

    "Couldn't be further from the truth," says agent Mark Bartlestein, whose agency, Priority Sports & Entertainment, has nearly 40 NBA clients and two dozen players overseas, including Songaila. "Every NBA player contract that I'm aware of has language in it that allows them to play pick-up basketball. But you're not protected if you're playing in a summer league, charity game or for a team in Europe. For a player who is in a big-time lucrative contract, there's tremendous risk."



    It's known as the "For the Love of the Game" clause, or Exhibit 5, and it's the part in every standard NBA contract in which protected activities are listed. Bartlestein says it's routine to list informal offseason training sessions under it, including even summer pro-am leagues. But unless Kobe Bryant had the foresight to stipulate in his Exhibit 5 that he has the right to barnstorm China or play in Italy, should he injure that balky knee and be impaired upon his return, the Los Angeles Lakers would have grounds to take some or all of the $83.5 million they owe him over the next three years. Same goes for Williams and the $33 million the New Jersey Nets owe him over the next two years if he's hurt playing for Turkey's Besiktas.



    Bill Duffy, head of BDA Sports Management, suggested there could be strong legal grounds to prevent an NBA team from voiding an existing contract, seeing as the lockout is forcing players to play elsewhere to earn income. But that still wouldn't protect a star, such as Williams, who could suffer an injury that isn't career-ending but simply value-diminishing. Several agents gave the same example: Shaun Livingston. A potential franchise-cornerstone point guard, Livingston was building toward a maximum-salary deal or close to it before shredding his knee on a fast break four years ago. He's back playing but the chances of him signing an eight-figure deal are gone.

    "For the NBA player with a market value of $2 million or more, Asia and Europe present very little in the way of legitimate playing options," says Mark Termini, whose agency has been placing clients with European teams for the past 25 years.



    One report had Williams' contract with Turkey's Besiktas worth $5 million, but sources say that figure is inflated by incentives as lofty as Williams being the league MVP and Besiktas reaching the Turkish Finals, which it has done twice in its 108-year history, most recently in 2005.



    Childress, comparatively, signed a three-year, $20 million deal with Olympiacos, but that's when its owners were trying to make a splash and Childress had to agree to stay at least one full season. With Greece's economy in ruins, both Olympiacos and Panathanaikos are now up for sale, leaving the number of teams able and willing to offer a deal comparable to Williams' at "less than 10," according to multiple sources.


    Several teams from the Turkish League are spending lavishly because the country's economy is booming, but it is the exception thanks to, in part, not being a full member of the European Union. Not only are the days of the Greek government arranging tax-free concessions for its sports franchises over, but the cost of bailing out Greece has prompted other governments in the European Union to close tax loopholes for their country's teams as well.



    NBA players are aghast at the thought of not having guaranteed contracts, but that's what they'd be signing with any European club. Childress doesn't see anything in Europe worth risking the $27 million remaining on the contract he signed with the Hawks as part of a sign-and-trade deal that landed him in Phoenix.



    "One of the biggest things guys will have to realize is that whatever offer you get, there's no guarantee you'll actually get all that money," Childress says. "If a guy isn't playing well or a team is out of the playoffs, they'll just stop paying you. I know tons and tons of players who just walked away because they didn't want to go through the hassle of going to court to get their money."



    And while Besiktas gave Williams an option to leave whenever the NBA lockout ends, the best teams in Europe are not inclined to do that.



    "They want to build a team, not just get guys for a few months of entertainment," Childress says.



    "Those teams don't look at themselves as a younger brother to the NBA or a feeder system or inferior level of competition," says one agent, who requested anonymity.

    "Their perception and pride is not what it was 10 years ago."


    Star players, no matter how big, should not expect star treatment, either. By anyone.



    "Here the stars run the show," Childress says. "Over there it's the coach, and the coach only. You really have to buy into the system. The style of play is slower, a lot closer to a college style. It's a lot less reliant on talent and more on tactics and execution. They definitely have a high opinion of how they play the game and view NBA basketball as street ball. You go over there, you're playing against everyone -- other players, fans, referees, everyone. You don't get calls because you're stronger, faster and more athletic, so they think you should be able to take it."



    The chance of injury, or falling out of favor, is heightened by travel and training that is considerably more spartan as well.



    "I played for one of the biggest clubs in Europe," Childress says. "But there were still six- and seven-hour bus rides, we didn't stay at the best hotels and we flew commercial nine out of 10 times. And not all coaches care about your body. It's more military style. There's no getting tired. I'll be interested to see how guys' bodies respond."



    Childress says he believes there may be a couple of select opportunities still available overseas and doesn't begrudge anyone from looking into them. But he had a word of advice:


    "Do your research. Look into who the coaches are and the teams that don't pay. The worst thing is going over to play for however many months and then having to fight to get your money. I welcome guys to ask me questions. I can help them out. They play by different rules over there."



    Ric Bucher is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.
    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...s-going-europe

    I hope that some more FA go over to Europe, then they can realize how freaking good they have it here.
    Last edited by Since86; 07-14-2011 at 12:15 PM.

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  27. #147
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    This was very enlightening to me:

    One great misnomer is that a player is just as at risk of a contract-voiding injury playing at Pauley Pavilion or in some other offseason pick-up game as playing overseas.

    "Couldn't be further from the truth," says agent Mark Bartlestein, whose agency, Priority Sports & Entertainment, has nearly 40 NBA clients and two dozen players overseas, including Songaila. "Every NBA player contract that I'm aware of has language in it that allows them to play pick-up basketball. But you're not protected if you're playing in a summer league, charity game or for a team in Europe. For a player who is in a big-time lucrative contract, there's tremendous risk."

  28. #148
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    That is an interesting dichotomy I'm noticing in the discussions about this. First you'll hear how bad/unjust/unfair/whatever to not give NBA players guaranteed contracts, and how if the NBA locks out they can just take their talents elsewhere, but there's never any mention from that side of the argument of how "elsewhere" means non-guaranteed money.

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  30. #149
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Personally, I hope all these spoiled players go overseas and stay there.
    This to a million times infinity

  31. #150
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish View Post
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    This to a million times infinity
    You might be on the wrong board then...the address I believe you are looking for is Madantsdigest.com

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