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Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

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  • #91
    Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

    All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

    EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.
    it is more like 10m IMO it is tax free with housing and a car and i assume other expenses .

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
      Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

      All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

      EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.
      It really makes no sense. They are over here arguing over having to take pay cuts, but then they go overseas where they take...a huge pay cut.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

        Why would the owners crack? If stars keep playing, it doesn't really hurt the owners...
        Maybe a particular owner if their player gets hurt.

        The stars preserve their brands by playing overseas, maybe even attract new fans.
        Long term, that only helps NBA to recover from the lockout faster.
        It's a star driven league, and when stars work on their brand during NBA's offseason instead of eating vaseline or getting arrested - that's always a good thing for business.

        Owners always knew some guys will find jobs overseas. If Kobe and Deron stay in the center of attention for basketball reasons, it's not a bad thing for the owners.

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        • #94
          Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

          Originally posted by pacer4ever View Post
          it is more like 10m IMO it is tax free with housing and a car and i assume other expenses .
          I think you have it backwards. He's getting $200,000 per month, which equals 2.4mil for the year. When you add in all the extra crap he's getting that $2.4mil turns into $5mil.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

            Originally posted by PurduePacer View Post
            It really makes no sense. They are over here arguing over having to take pay cuts, but then they go overseas where they take...a huge pay cut.
            I wouldn't call this a pay cut. Less money than he would be getting in the NBA season, sure, but it's not like its an either or option right now.
            "man, PG has been really good."

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
              Why? Deron is going overseas to go play for 5 mil. The owners can offer him 8 mil and they would end up saving MORE money than they're shooting for now.

              All this is doing is cutting the players throat, because they're showing they're willing to play for less. A LOT less.

              EDIT: I mean even at 5mil for the entire season, instead of the reported 2.4mil he's still taking an 11mil per season pay cut. If he did that here in the States, the owners would sign off on that deal in less than a second.
              No, it's showing that they'll go play elsewhere if they don't get what they want. It's also showing that the players won't crack if they run out of money..they'll go get a job overseas.

              "Fine, you don't want to pay us what you are capable of paying us, we'll go elsewhere" The NBA can't be successful if the best players are playing in other countries. That's the threat to the owners.

              Now New Jersey gets to sit and pray Williams doesn't get hurt and doesn't prefer Turkey.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                You're missing the bigger point.

                The NBPA is saying that DWill is owed $16.5mil, which is what he would get this season. The NBA is saying no, we think he should get $12mil, roughly.

                The NBPA is declines that offer, and then DWill goes and takes a job that is paying him $5mil.

                He's shown that he is willing to play for $5mil. If he's willing to play for $5mil, then he's certainly willing to play for $12mil.

                All the NBA needs to do is hold on to that offer of $12mil offer. The NBA is still offering him more money to do the exact same job as what he could get anywhere else in the world.

                It makes no sense to refuse a $4mil paycut, and then accept a $11.5mil paycut.

                At the end of the day, players are going to chose which league offers them more money. Clearly the NBA is able to pay them more, eventhough they're not going to be getting paid as much as what they were.

                Money talks, and the NBA has lots more than anyone else.
                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                  Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                  You're missing the bigger point.

                  The NBPA is saying that DWill is owed $16.5mil, which is what he would get this season. The NBA is saying no, we think he should get $12mil, roughly.

                  The NBPA is declines that offer, and then DWill goes and takes a job that is paying him $5mil.

                  He's shown that he is willing to play for $5mil. If he's willing to play for $5mil, then he's certainly willing to play for $12mil.

                  All the NBA needs to do is hold on to that offer of $12mil offer. The NBA is still offering him more money to do the exact same job as what he could get anywhere else in the world.

                  It makes no sense to refuse a $4mil paycut, and then accept a $11.5mil paycut.

                  At the end of the day, players are going to chose which league offers them more money. Clearly the NBA is able to pay them more, eventhough they're not going to be getting paid as much as what they were.

                  Money talks, and the NBA has lots more than anyone else.
                  You're comparing apples and oranges here.

                  For one, Deron is not getting a market value contract here, as ballism has been pointing out. He's getting a contract which says that any time the NBA lockout ends, he can leave. That is in no way comparable to his multiyear NBA contract.

                  For comparison, check out the contract Krstic got - 2 years $9.8m from CSKA. Obviously there's more money available in Europe, but that money won't be available for players who aren't planning to stay in Europe long term.

                  I think of Deron's move as more of a promotional tour than a serious signing. He'll go over, play a few games, win a few fans, then come back to his NBA day job. Ditto for the Turkish team, getting Deron is more about PR and fan interest than becoming more competitive.

                  IMO a few players going to Europe won't significantly affect CBA negotiations, either way. Yeah you can argue it relieves some of the financial pressure on players. But frankly there's not enough money in Europe or Asia to employ some 400+ NBA players.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                    With what is going on in Europe, I seriously doubt that many teams are able to offer players the level of money a team like CSKA Moscow can.

                    And while it might be apples to oranges, you can bet that the owners are going to use this signing, and others, as leverage. They're going to argue that the players are willing to play for a significant amout less than what the NBA is currently offering. And I don't know how you're saying it isn't "market value." The NBA is the only market that can offer such a high level of value. NBA players aren't going to go overseas to play basketball, especially when they can recieve more money from the NBA. Josh Childress should have put that argument to rest.

                    The apples to oranges argument might work for the NBPA, but it certainly won't help their overall argument that the players shouldn't lose money in order for NBA teams to get their financial houses in order.

                    I can see where the argument doesn't have much value for the league, but there's no way that it's going to be beneificial to the NBPA.
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                      You're missing the bigger point.

                      The NBPA is saying that DWill is owed $16.5mil, which is what he would get this season. The NBA is saying no, we think he should get $12mil, roughly.

                      The NBPA is declines that offer, and then DWill goes and takes a job that is paying him $5mil.

                      He's shown that he is willing to play for $5mil. If he's willing to play for $5mil, then he's certainly willing to play for $12mil.

                      All the NBA needs to do is hold on to that offer of $12mil offer. The NBA is still offering him more money to do the exact same job as what he could get anywhere else in the world.

                      It makes no sense to refuse a $4mil paycut, and then accept a $11.5mil paycut.

                      At the end of the day, players are going to chose which league offers them more money. Clearly the NBA is able to pay them more, eventhough they're not going to be getting paid as much as what they were.

                      Money talks, and the NBA has lots more than anyone else.
                      No, that's not the case.

                      The players know that the league can offer them more than the 12 million. They also know that the NBA can't survive with the best players in the world playing elsewhere.

                      The power the NBA had was that the NBA players consider the NBA to be the preferred league, and weren't looking to go elsewhere.

                      This signing could start a trend. Wasn't Italy or Russia offering Kobe what amounted to about 50 Million to play there? Suppose Kobe's next. More players might follow.

                      Now you have a situation where the NBA needs the players more than the players need the NBA. That's the bigger picture. The NBA has the arrogance to think that the players will just accept what they give them, because it's the NBA. And if the players are overseas making money, they don't need the NBA to start again.

                      Essentially, the NBA loses it's main source of power in this fight.

                      edit: But there's no leverage.
                      "You took a 12 Million decrease in salary over there"
                      "Right, and I'll do it again unless you give me what I want."

                      Comment


                      • Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                        Until Kobe signs a contract worth $50M the argument is moot. Another poster, foreign, talked about how very few teams have the financial ability to sign players to such high contracts. The situation in Europe is going to get worse before it gets better, so there's going to be even less money available in the future.


                        But regardless, if the Indiana Pacers struggle to sign FA because of location, eventhough they can over pay, do you REALLY think that players are going to move to Europe? Uh, no.

                        Let's not forget that LeBron took a pay cut in order to go play somewhere outside of Cleveland. Let's also not forget that all 3 of them took a pay cut to play in Miami, had they decided to go play somewhere else.

                        The NBA is the NBA for a reason. It's the top of the mountain, and players aren't going to move to Europe and thousands and thousands of miles away from their friends and family in order to play for less money, in some pretty dicey situations. (I mean take a look at all the riots happening in Greece)

                        Until NBA players actually start signing contracts for multi-year deals worth big time money, the argument is pointless. Hypothetical situations aren't going to drastically change the course of the CBA discussions.
                        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          And I don't know how you're saying it isn't "market value."
                          What I meant is that if Deron were a true free agent, willing to sign a 2 year or even 1 full-year contract, he'd get a much larger offer. Not anywhere near $16m, but certainly more than $2m.

                          I've consistently said that Europe isn't a serious long term option for top players. And as I've said, I doubt it would seriously impact CBA negotiations either way.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                            Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                            Until Kobe signs a contract worth $50M the argument is moot. Another poster, foreign, talked about how very few teams have the financial ability to sign players to such high contracts. The situation in Europe is going to get worse before it gets better, so there's going to be even less money available in the future.


                            But regardless, if the Indiana Pacers struggle to sign FA because of location, eventhough they can over pay, do you REALLY think that players are going to move to Europe? Uh, no.

                            Let's not forget that LeBron took a pay cut in order to go play somewhere outside of Cleveland. Let's also not forget that all 3 of them took a pay cut to play in Miami, had they decided to go play somewhere else.

                            The NBA is the NBA for a reason. It's the top of the mountain, and players aren't going to move to Europe and thousands and thousands of miles away from their friends and family in order to play for less money, in some pretty dicey situations. (I mean take a look at all the riots happening in Greece)

                            Until NBA players actually start signing contracts for multi-year deals worth big time money, the argument is pointless. Hypothetical situations aren't going to drastically change the course of the CBA discussions.
                            That's the point.

                            It's the NBA because of WHO plays in that league. The players aren't there, it's not the best league in the world anymore.

                            And that's essentially Deron William's threat. The amount of money he's making overseas doesn't matter.

                            It's not like William's is making peanuts. It's 5 Million. (And 5 Million means a lot more there...) Doing this allows the players to play just as much hardball as the owners are.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                              Players aren't going to go to Europe. I will bet any amount of money, or whatever other prize you want. It's not going to happen.

                              If they won't sign with the Pacers because it's in Indianapolis, they sure as hell aren't going to go play in Italy, or Greece, or where ever.

                              Not only that, but no other league in the world can offer as much money as the NBA. As much as we are cutting back on expenses here, the rest of the world is doing just as much, if not more. (except for a few places obviously, but no one is going to go play in China)

                              The Euro is crumbling, and it's affecting every single nation's economy there. They do not have the funds to pay big name players a bunch of money, and they certainly don't have the funds to pay multiple big name players a lot of money.

                              Then you get into the fact that Euroleague has rules in place for the number of "foreign" born players on rosters. Teams can't load up on US players, there are rules in place that prohibit it.

                              So if there was an owner of a team that could absorb big name players for tons and tons of money, he could only take on a select few.

                              If the worlds aligned perfectly, then yes, the NBA could have some real compeition. But the worlds aren't aligned perfectly, and they're not even aligned decently. They're not even in the same universe right now.

                              There are too many factors on so many different levels that is effecting the situation and none of them are anywhere near being solved.

                              If CSKA or whoever offered Kobe $50mil to play one season, then why in the hell didn't he take it? And we're talking about a player who grew up doing the Euro league grinds with his father.

                              It's not going to happen.
                              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

                                The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.

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