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Thread: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

  1. #101
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Until Kobe signs a contract worth $50M the argument is moot. Another poster, foreign, talked about how very few teams have the financial ability to sign players to such high contracts. The situation in Europe is going to get worse before it gets better, so there's going to be even less money available in the future.


    But regardless, if the Indiana Pacers struggle to sign FA because of location, eventhough they can over pay, do you REALLY think that players are going to move to Europe? Uh, no.

    Let's not forget that LeBron took a pay cut in order to go play somewhere outside of Cleveland. Let's also not forget that all 3 of them took a pay cut to play in Miami, had they decided to go play somewhere else.

    The NBA is the NBA for a reason. It's the top of the mountain, and players aren't going to move to Europe and thousands and thousands of miles away from their friends and family in order to play for less money, in some pretty dicey situations. (I mean take a look at all the riots happening in Greece)

    Until NBA players actually start signing contracts for multi-year deals worth big time money, the argument is pointless. Hypothetical situations aren't going to drastically change the course of the CBA discussions.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    And I don't know how you're saying it isn't "market value."
    What I meant is that if Deron were a true free agent, willing to sign a 2 year or even 1 full-year contract, he'd get a much larger offer. Not anywhere near $16m, but certainly more than $2m.

    I've consistently said that Europe isn't a serious long term option for top players. And as I've said, I doubt it would seriously impact CBA negotiations either way.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Until Kobe signs a contract worth $50M the argument is moot. Another poster, foreign, talked about how very few teams have the financial ability to sign players to such high contracts. The situation in Europe is going to get worse before it gets better, so there's going to be even less money available in the future.


    But regardless, if the Indiana Pacers struggle to sign FA because of location, eventhough they can over pay, do you REALLY think that players are going to move to Europe? Uh, no.

    Let's not forget that LeBron took a pay cut in order to go play somewhere outside of Cleveland. Let's also not forget that all 3 of them took a pay cut to play in Miami, had they decided to go play somewhere else.

    The NBA is the NBA for a reason. It's the top of the mountain, and players aren't going to move to Europe and thousands and thousands of miles away from their friends and family in order to play for less money, in some pretty dicey situations. (I mean take a look at all the riots happening in Greece)

    Until NBA players actually start signing contracts for multi-year deals worth big time money, the argument is pointless. Hypothetical situations aren't going to drastically change the course of the CBA discussions.
    That's the point.

    It's the NBA because of WHO plays in that league. The players aren't there, it's not the best league in the world anymore.

    And that's essentially Deron William's threat. The amount of money he's making overseas doesn't matter.

    It's not like William's is making peanuts. It's 5 Million. (And 5 Million means a lot more there...) Doing this allows the players to play just as much hardball as the owners are.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Players aren't going to go to Europe. I will bet any amount of money, or whatever other prize you want. It's not going to happen.

    If they won't sign with the Pacers because it's in Indianapolis, they sure as hell aren't going to go play in Italy, or Greece, or where ever.

    Not only that, but no other league in the world can offer as much money as the NBA. As much as we are cutting back on expenses here, the rest of the world is doing just as much, if not more. (except for a few places obviously, but no one is going to go play in China)

    The Euro is crumbling, and it's affecting every single nation's economy there. They do not have the funds to pay big name players a bunch of money, and they certainly don't have the funds to pay multiple big name players a lot of money.

    Then you get into the fact that Euroleague has rules in place for the number of "foreign" born players on rosters. Teams can't load up on US players, there are rules in place that prohibit it.

    So if there was an owner of a team that could absorb big name players for tons and tons of money, he could only take on a select few.

    If the worlds aligned perfectly, then yes, the NBA could have some real compeition. But the worlds aren't aligned perfectly, and they're not even aligned decently. They're not even in the same universe right now.

    There are too many factors on so many different levels that is effecting the situation and none of them are anywhere near being solved.

    If CSKA or whoever offered Kobe $50mil to play one season, then why in the hell didn't he take it? And we're talking about a player who grew up doing the Euro league grinds with his father.

    It's not going to happen.

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    It has nothing to do with the economy, basketball is just not and never was popular enough to be self sustainable business in europe, most of the clubs are either run by billionaire basketball fans or are financed by their major soccer clubs. There might be some temporary signings, but they will come back once the lockout ends. The only way some players leave permanently is if the owners proposal of 40something million hard cap comes to fruition, but i doubt that would happen.

    I don't see it as some sort of threat or leverage for players union, it's just a player earning some money and keeping himself in shape playing competitive ball during the lockout.

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  8. #107

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish View Post
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    The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.
    So the league would be better of if the league wide skill would drop dramatically?

  9. #108
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    If they took their me-first, money grubbing attitudes with them so that the NBA can set up a system of league-wide competition with contracts that require players continue to play after the ink has dried on their latest big dollar contract: yes.

    And that isn't a condemnation on the guys I mentioned specifically. But if those guys have to go to get rid of the trash keeping the NBA from being competitive like its NFL brethren, so be it.

  10. #109
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish View Post
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    The NBA absolutely can survive without its top stars. If DWill, Kobe, Dwight Howard, and the Heat douchebags all find a home in Europe, you know who will care: Nobody. The NBA will go on. Those guys will live in relative obscurity, while someone here in the States takes their place. There's not going to be some major surge in popularity in European basketball here in the States if those guys leave. In fact, the NBA would probably be BETTER OFF if those guys left, tbh.
    I agree, there is always somebody willing to take your place if you bow out from the being on top of the mountain.

    The NBA would go on, it might be alittle smaller revenue wise for a few years, but other players will rise to the top, and be crowned best in the world because they play in the NBA. Because the media is not going to bother to focus on European ball when we have 30 teams along with several hundred college teams here.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  11. #110

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish View Post
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    If they took their me-first, money grubbing attitudes with them so that the NBA can set up a system of league-wide competition with contracts that require players continue to play after the ink has dried on their latest big dollar contract: yes.

    And that isn't a condemnation on the guys I mentioned specifically. But if those guys have to go to get rid of the trash keeping the NBA from being competitive like its NFL brethren, so be it.
    New players with "me-first, money grabbing attitudes" would be drafted, people don't change. Did i miss some players playing with teams they don't have contracts with?

    You cannot compare NFL and NBA, different games, different formats. BO1 versus BO7 playoffs, 11 versus 5 players on the field, if you want randomness then why not make the playoffs into March madness.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
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    Turkey isn't 3rd world it actually is pretty nice
    something lik 40% of the population in Istanbul lives in tin sheet slums and shanty towns. Sound just peachy. I betting they don't cover that on the tour though.

    Pretty nice for a developing country I guess, and i'm sure pretty nice for millionaire athletes. Though you can say that about any city in the world.
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    New players with "me-first, money grabbing attitudes" that now play in a system that is set up to neutralize that to the benefit of everyone. That's the difference.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Except if all the top players go to Europe and get paid, what will stop the next tier of players from going over and getting paid? Especially as the skill level in the NBA drops. The NBA is popular because its the best basketball league there is. If another league takes that title, then the NBA goes down. Look at the MLS. Inferior product, inferior league, and no one really cares about it. People much rather watch the different European leagues because thats where the best players and are.

  15. #114

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish View Post
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    New players with "me-first, money grabbing attitudes" that now play in a system that is set up to neutralize that to the benefit of everyone. That's the difference.
    I don't think that is possible, even in theory. And i don't even think this is what the owners are about with this lockout.

  16. #115
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Sookie View Post
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    That's the point.

    It's the NBA because of WHO plays in that league. The players aren't there, it's not the best league in the world anymore.

    And that's essentially Deron William's threat. The amount of money he's making overseas doesn't matter.

    It's not like William's is making peanuts. It's 5 Million. (And 5 Million means a lot more there...) Doing this allows the players to play just as much hardball as the owners are.
    I totally disagree, the NBA is a result of developing the best players in the world. Thats what makes it the best of the best. If the best players of the NBA leave for Europe it will cheapen their accomplishments. The level of competition will not match the NBA. You would expect these elite level players to win all sorts of European Championships. I can see it now, Kobe could average +30 over in Europe. The reaction will be hell, why not more? Look who he is playing against!
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

  17. #116

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    I totally disagree, the NBA is a result of developing the best players in the world. Thats what makes it the best of the best. If the best players of the NBA leave for Europe it will cheapen their accomplishments. The level of competition will not match the NBA. You would expect these elite level players to win all sorts of European Championships. I can see it now, Kobe could average +30 over in Europe. The reaction will be hell, why not more? Look who he is playing against!
    Wouldn't he be playing against Lebron, Wade etc?

  18. #117
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Except if all the top players go to Europe and get paid, what will stop the next tier of players from going over and getting paid? Especially as the skill level in the NBA drops. The NBA is popular because its the best basketball league there is. If another league takes that title, then the NBA goes down. Look at the MLS. Inferior product, inferior league, and no one really cares about it. People much rather watch the different European leagues because thats where the best players and are.
    Here is a competing example:

    In Soccer, David Beckam was one of the most celebrated athletes of the past 20 years. Granted being English had alot to do with it. Towards the end of his elite playing days he took giant money grab pay day of 100 million dollars to sign with the LA Galaxy. He is now just considered a celebrity athlete. Heck he had mostly a ceremonial captain's role on the last World Cup team. David Beckam, once a great player now just considered and older player playing against inferior competition in America.......why would the same not be said about Kobe Bryant?
    Last edited by graphic-er; 07-08-2011 at 03:44 PM.
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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
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    Wouldn't he be playing against Lebron, Wade etc?
    What would it matter? So the handful of NBA superstars ditch the league and become Euroleague superstars.... They are still playing with a bunch of mediocre competition. If those guys left the NBA then the players that are left will better compensated, and have bigger roles. You don't think a Player of Granger's calibur would see more success if players like Lebron, Kobe, and Wade werent in the league?
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by ilive4sports View Post
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    Except if all the top players go to Europe and get paid
    Top superstars are not going to get paid more in Europe than they would in the NBA. Williams is proof.

  21. #120

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    What would it matter? So the handful of NBA superstars ditch the league and become Euroleague superstars.... They are still playing with a bunch of mediocre competition. If those guys left the NBA then the players that are left will better compensated, and have bigger roles. You don't think a Player of Granger's calibur would see more success if players like Lebron, Kobe, and Wade werent in the league?
    PlayerS plural, not a handfull. Why would the players leave? Money. If there would be hypothetical league that would as whole have a bigger sustainable payroll than NBA, then most of the top players would naturally follow the money, thus making that league the strongest in the world and further attracting the young best young players. Your argument didn't make any logical sense, but maybe because we are talking about different scenarios.

    So if owners push too much for salary reductions, they would get closer to loosing talent. The current offer is not there yet but it's pretty damn close.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by graphic-er View Post
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    Here is a competing example:

    In Soccer, David Beckam was one of the most celebrated athletes of the past 20 years. Granted being English had alot to do with it. Towards the end of his elite playing days he took giant money grab pay day of 100 million dollars to sign with the LA Galaxy. He is now just considered a celebrity athlete. Heck he had mostly a ceremonial captain's role on the last World Cup team. David Beckam, once a great player now just considered and older player playing against inferior competition in America.......why would the same not be said about Kobe Bryant?
    Well Kobe is still a much better player than what Beckam was. And what about LeBron, Wade, Howard, Nowitzki and company, all at the top of their game? Its a very different situation where old, past their prime players come to MLS for some money, compared to players at the top of their game going to Europe to play there.

    And if you think they won't get paid, you are wrong. Quite frankly I think this whole thing by Williams is a bit of a stunt. I don't think he expects to be there very long, if at all. But if players seriously consider going over there, they will be paid very well.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Swish View Post
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    Top superstars are not going to get paid more in Europe than they would in the NBA. Williams is proof.
    Hypothetically, Europe is more than capable of 'stealing' and sustaining a major league next to soccer, with NBA-like salaries. But it would take NBA shutting down for years, which will never happen.
    Still, Berlin Pacers? I'd get to a few games each year!
    Last edited by ballism; 07-08-2011 at 04:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    No one has even attempted to answer my questions.

    1.) Someone said that CSKA Moscow has offered Kobe $50M in the past to play for them. If it's all about the money, then why didn't he leave the NBA then?
    2.) If the Pacers struggle to sign FA, because of location, then how in the hell are teams in Europe going to get players to sign?

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    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Let's be real about the situation.

    European leagues didn't just pop up out of no where. They've been around for quite some time. Do you really not think that the NBPA hasn't already threatened that their players would simply go overseas?

    Are we really going to sit here and think that DWill just came up on this idea on his own, and that it hasn't been discussed between the NBA and the NBPA?

    Come on now....

    If Europe was able to absorb NBA players, and give them more money than the NBA is able too, it would have already happened.

    We were told how players were going to start going to Europe to get around the NBA's age limit rule. We were told how players were going to go to Europe to get better contracts, when Josh Childress left.

    Neither has happened. I wonder why......

  26. #125

    Default Re: Deron Williams Signs with Turkish Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    No one has even attempted to answer my questions.

    1.) Someone said that CSKA Moscow has offered Kobe $50M in the past to play for them. If it's all about the money, then why didn't he leave the NBA then?
    2.) If the Pacers struggle to sign FA, because of location, then how in the hell are teams in Europe going to get players to sign?
    1.) There was no such offer, no offer at all actually, Kobe was asked if he would play in Europe for 50m a year in interview, he said yes. But there was no offer.

    2.) Why wouldn't they, this an odd question.

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