View Poll Results: Legends 3 Year Plan

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  • Approve. It was a success.

    89 72.36%
  • Disapprove. Set the Franchise back.

    0 0%
  • I'll give Bird a C- (vnzla81)

    6 4.88%
  • It was respectable (speakout4)

    8 6.50%
  • Give it more time. (spreedom)

    16 13.01%
  • It's a success if we are competitive this year. (D0NT SH0OT ME)

    4 3.25%
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Thread: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

  1. #1
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    No NBA FA's too discuss due too a lockout, so I thought this would be as good a time as any too form conclusions on the 3 year plan.

    Was it a success? Did Bird do what he setout too do? Feel welcome to offer up any insight on why you feel the 3 year plan was or was not a success.

    I dont know if we would include this offseason in with the 3 year plan or not, but I think we have enough evidence too now form or support an opinion on Legends performance.

    Unless Legend goes and signs Jamal Tinsley too an MLE... I think its safe too place a verdict on the plan Bird had in place.

    Do you believe Birds three year plan was a success.. ?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    too early to tell IMO. i've always stated that i will not fully judge bird until i see our roster and cap situation on opening night of the 11/12 season. who knows what he does with the cap space during this offseason.

    as of today, i can say i'm optimistic. we have a ton of young talent who made the playoffs, all our picks, and cap space.....couldn't ask for more at this point.

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  4. #3
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    it is sort of like we are at the end of the 3rd quarter of a game and the score is tied. Too soon to tell. So far it is OK. This year is key though

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  6. #4
    Artificial Intelligence wintermute's Avatar
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Yeah, getting cap space is a key element of the 3 year plan. So what we do with it is going to be pretty important.

    So far, the early returns aren't bad. Arguably we got Collison and Hill in part because of cap space. Collison from absorbing Posey's contract and Hill because the Spurs think they couldn't afford to re-sign him while we certainly could. Though obviously the picks are the more important part of the Hill trade.

  7. #5
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    too early to tell IMO. i've always stated that i will not fully judge bird until i see our roster and cap situation on opening night of the 11/12 season. who knows what he does with the cap space during this offseason.

    as of today, i can say i'm optimistic. we have a ton of young talent who made the playoffs, all our picks, and cap space.....couldn't ask for more at this point.
    i agree, but this is the official close too the three year plan Bird mentioned he had set in stone. the lockout does not allow this offseason too go forward but i think overall many fans three years ago may have nvr believed Bird could put this Franchise in the position it is today.

    Your final sentence summarizes it perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    it is sort of like we are at the end of the 3rd quarter of a game and the score is tied. Too soon to tell. So far it is OK. This year is key though
    too soon too tell.. we are in year 3 of the "3 year plan." granted.. im not ready too annoit Legend the savior of this Franchise.. and why the he would want too leave after this offseason is anyones guess.

    I hope Legend stays around for another 3 years and finishes the job. The new three year plan should be too contend.. and not just contend for a small window like the celts with kg, pp, ray; contend like the Thunder likely will for over a decade.

    as far as this 3 year plan Bird implemented, i agree, need too see what he does in FA, but to be in the position we are today with the young players and cap space, i believe Bird has got the Franchise moving in the right direction.

  8. #6

    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    The 3 year Plan was unquestionably a success, and the talk about still needing time to decide says more about the unrealistic expectations of the fan base than the actual 3 year plan.

    Rarely has a rebuild job gone so well. From such a terrible starting point. It's been a masterful rebuild, taking advantage of every bit of luck that has fallen our way.
    Removed link to my website after a PM from Able.

  9. #7
    bleed Blue & Gold PacersPride's Avatar
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
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    Yeah, getting cap space is a key element of the 3 year plan. So what we do with it is going to be pretty important.

    So far, the early returns aren't bad. Arguably we got Collison and Hill in part because of cap space. Collison from absorbing Posey's contract and Hill because the Spurs think they couldn't afford to re-sign him while we certainly could. Though obviously the picks are the more important part of the Hill trade.
    True.. but what im discussing here is the overall body of work. During Birds tenure here i cannot say there is one trade we have got taken on. In fact, we have overall got the better end of deals imo.

    The draft picks chosen, all solid players, anyone look back at those drafts and we can probably see a ton of misses by other GM's, where Bird might have not taken the best player, he did take solid role players and can contribute on a championship team.

    I like that Bird was patient, did not accept bad trades, whereas another GM in here on a 3 year term may have made riskier investments and trades which coulda only set this Franchise back farther.

    Outstanding 3 years of work by Legend. I have no doubts we are on the way too contending for a championship. I say that fully aware of the superteams in the East.

    The new CBA probably should be included in the 3 year plan; because im assuming this may be a primary reason Bird went this route.. maybe it is too early too say.

    However, overall i would say the 3 year plan has been a success.

  10. #8

    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by notque View Post
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    The 3 year Plan was unquestionably a success, and the talk about still needing time to decide says more about the unrealistic expectations of the fan base than the actual 3 year plan.

    Rarely has a rebuild job gone so well. From such a terrible starting point. It's been a masterful rebuild, taking advantage of every bit of luck that has fallen our way.
    Yea, there really shoulnt be much thought left concerning this issue. If someone still needs time to figure it out they were never going to give Bird props anyway.
    The only rebuild that I can think of that went better than this one was right after the 2000 Finals. There the veteran team was dismantled and Isiah still got us in the playoffs. I say it was better only because the team was completely overhauled and still never missed the playoffs. That was a truely remarkable feat by Donnie and Isiah.
    If this team goes out and competes for the ECF, then this 3-year play could be better. Right now though, its been very good. I couldnt be happier as a Pacer fan (realistically that is).

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  12. #9
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Wish there were more choices.

    If you put a gun to my head and make me choose, I guess I'd say success. We drafted well, made it back to the playoffs and had a good showing. But now that the happy joy feelings of that have faded, I'm still not happy that the plan pretty much was "wait 3 years and hope for the best." If Bird had kept O'Brien for just a couple weeks longer, or Milwaukee and Charlotte hadn't completely flamed out, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. Neither of those had anything to do with the "plan".

    Still, DC was a great trade, and I'm sure there were stupid trades we could have made but didn't. The franchise is in a better position now than where we were 3 years ago, so you take it.

    Lastly, as has been mentioned, the new CBA could really **** us. I don't think it'll happen, but it's entirely possible that there will be new exceptions and Allan Houston rules and whatnot that make all the sacrifices we made to get into this position pointless.
    Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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  14. #10
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    The 3 year plan was to get us to this point, not make us instant title contenders. It's a success for what it was, but it was only "a plan" and not "the plan" if "the plan" is being in the NBA Finals.

    That's the extra reason this lockout sucks. We should be witnesses the end of that plan and the dawn of the next one RIGHT NOW.

    Instead.... more waiting.

    As far as I can tell, there's only one more plan: Ascend to the top of the league, or as close as we can get. That will probably take a 2-4 years.

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  16. #11
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Success, we made the playoffs and have plenty of young talent. Larry has done all he can.

    On another note for the OP... http://www.wikihow.com/Use-%22Too%22...o%22-Correctly

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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    Wish there were more choices.

    If Bird had kept O'Brien for just a couple weeks longer, or Milwaukee and Charlotte hadn't completely flamed out, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. Neither of those had anything to do with the "plan".
    Maybe not those teams flaming out, but I would be willing to bet that the overall state of the EC had part to do with it. It's been real top heavy for some time now.

    I don't want to take away from the plan either...I haven't been this optimistic about the pacers since before the night in Det.

  18. #13
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Bird has did a pretty good job IMO, the 3 year plan has been a success for the most part. We now have gotten rid of the horrible contracts, infused the team with good young talent and made the playoffs. No team is perfect with draft picks or trades, but I think Bird has done well with what he has had to work with.

    The biggest mistake Bird made, besides hiring him in the first place, was to wait way to long to get rid of JOB. Maybe Bird is just very loyal and very stubborn, but everyone could see fairly early it was not working and most likely never would. We would not be where we are right now had Bird not finally fired him.

    No one could have guessed how successful Vogel would do in such a short time, just glad they rolled the dice and tried something different. The gloom and doom could still be hanging over this franchise if he had not.

    Most important, for the first time in a long time we have a light at the end of the tunnel and it's not a train coming at us. We actually have a legit future and even people outside of Indy are looking at our team in a positive light.
    "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

  19. #14

    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    We should know in about three years or so. Remember the three year plan is not THE plan it is just A plan.

    We are in a good position with cap space and we have some really good young players.

  20. #15
    The Nite Owl LA_Confidential's Avatar
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Im not planning on changing my avatar any time soon.

  21. #16
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    The verdict can't be in yet... all we've done is get under the cap. How successful the plan is will depend what players we bring in and how well we're able to implement them into our gameplan.

  22. #17
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Depends on what exactly the three year plan was. If it was to get out of salary cap hell, and put this team in a position to succeed in the near future than it is an absolute success. If it was to have a team that will constantly compete for the playoffs then it is too early to tell.

  23. #18
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    i dont see how anyone could vote for anything other than "Give it more time"

  24. #19
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    I also don't understand how he gets a C-. Seems like a slightly trollish stance to take IYAM.

  25. #20
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by LA_Confidential View Post
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    Im not planning on changing my avatar any time soon.



    I sure hope not.... because I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER.

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  27. #21
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by troyc11a View Post
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    Yea, there really shoulnt be much thought left concerning this issue. If someone still needs time to figure it out they were never going to give Bird props anyway.
    I think he has done everything right UNTIL now. For me its not just having 3 years to get us in a better situation its what we did with that situation. I'm not saying make us a contender. But lets say that we blow all of our money on max deal for Nene at 16+million a season then I'd actually say this is a c- at best. But if we use our new financial freedom wisely, well... the skies the limit and Bird and Moorway did a masterful job.
    I don't want to sound condescending, which means to talk down to you by the way

  28. #22
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Bird definitely gets a passing grade in my book.

    We're definitely heading in the right direction. We have so many positives between the solid young core and the cap space, which hopefully the lockout/new CBA really does help in our favor and we can actively go out and sign Deron Williams considering not many teams will be able to sign big FAs. Really talking about the Lakers, Knicks, etc. Possibly we'll be in a battle with the Nets if they are unable to re-sign him.

    Anyway. At the 3 year point, Bird gave us fans and Indy something to look forward to. Good young players with potential and a ton of cap space.

    Finishing 8 games below .500 isn't something to be proud of and making the playoffs by default, but what we did in the playoffs was something to be proud of.

    Like I said before, Bird will get a passing grade by me. That's of course subject to change depending on who we get with this cap space and how good we'll be.

  29. #23
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    We are significantly better off than we were 3 years ago, and that is good enough for me right now.

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  31. #24
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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kegboy View Post
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    But now that the happy joy feelings of that have faded, I'm still not happy that the plan pretty much was "wait 3 years and hope for the best."


    But what other option did we have? I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think there was any other option other than doing what we did.

    Look at 2008 draft to present. We got a pretty good deal for our only major asset (JO). We swung a decent deal with Portland. But what else was there to do from that point on? As far as everyone else in the NBA was concerned, our roster was a collective pile of expensive crap. No one wanted Dunleavy. No one wanted Murphy until he was going into the final year of his deal. No one wanted TJ Ford these past few years (I know Bird brought Ford here, but he was a small part of an overall good deal). No one was going to give us anything for Tins when they knew we were stuck with him. No team wanted wanted any of that crap. The only assets we did have (Granger, Hibbert) were guys we actually wanted to keep for the future.

    We went with the "wait three years and hope for the best" option because that's really the only choice we had. Not even Houdini could make something out of nothing if all he had was a bunch of overpaid crappy players. All Bird could really do was draft well and wait to get to the point we are now. The three year plan was never about becoming a legit contender after three years. It was about building a solid foundation that you could build on in the following years, and I think everyone can agree that we've done that.

    Bird seems to do well whenever he has assets. He got a good deal for JO. He got an A+ deal for Murphy. He turned a 15th pick in a pitiful draft and second rounder into George Hill, a guy that was a big contributor on the team with the best record in the league. He seems to do well when he has stuff to work with. I think you would be hard-pressed to find many GM's who could have done a "better" job while having so little to work with.

    Bird did all he could. You draft decent. You wait for the contracts of the overpaid players to expire. You make a decent trade here and there (Collison, Hill). Then, you have a decent young core with a lot of financial flexibility. I demand to know what GM could have done a drastically better job than Bird at this point.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 07-06-2011 at 07:46 AM.

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    Default Re: Verdict on 3 Year Plan

    I've deleted some posts (and responses to them) just to clean things up a bit and also I want to remind people that it's okay to disagree with someone's comments, but the focus needs to be on the message instead of shooting the messenger. General respect and civility is the goal here.

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