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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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If they were a package deal...

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  • #16
    Re: If they were a package deal...

    Good deals have been done in the past giving a lot less than that (See the Pau Gasol trade) the Lakers stole that one. By the time they did it Marc wasn't even in the NBA.

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    • #17
      Re: If they were a package deal...

      The problem with us ever trading for a certain superstar player is losing our assets in the first place. Because if we lose our talent than we put each star in a situation he was trying to get out of in the first place: A no talent team in the rebuilding stage.

      I don't buy for one second that CP3 or Howard would refuse to sign here. That's just ridiculous unless you have some inside information that they prefer a particular destination.

      Now what would make both players bolt the second they hit free agency is if we had to trade our most talented guys in the first place. I truly believe Howard and CP3 would love to play for our teams as is. But they probably don't want to play for the Pacers if their only side kicks are George squared.

      It's one of the reasons why I almost feel like it wouldn't be worth it to trade Roy and Granger for Dwight in the first place. Should a GM do it? Of course, you have to just because if you have a chance to get a superstar you do it- but I'd almost for see Howard coming to us, the team playing terribly, and then him bolting the following summer. - Again, if Howard was available as FA with our current team intact, I don't think he would have a problem at all signing with us, no matter how many times Stern tries to convince us superstars need larger local markets.(Hint: Stars don't need local markets, they're too big anyways, they'll be on TV no matter where they play)

      Free agency I think is the best chance for us to land someone like CP3 or Howard.

      Edit- On the terms of trading Roy and Granger then, the best thing that I would look for is probably young talented big men with huge upside and expiring contracts to make it work. That could be an honest attempt to improve our team with out ruining the teams chances in the future. For instance maybe if the Pacers did a trade of Granger and Roy for Cousins, Bismack, and an expiring contract. Or maybe you could do Thornton, Bismack (if you wanted to avoid Cousins) and an expiring... Those are just off the wall ideas, without actually studying to see if such a deal was possible btw.
      Last edited by mattie; 07-05-2011, 03:24 AM.

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      • #18
        Re: If they were a package deal...

        Did I miss Kings acquiring Bismack?

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        • #19
          Re: If they were a package deal...

          Originally posted by ballism View Post
          Did I miss Kings acquiring Bismack?
          I thought they drafted him.

          Edit- I'm an idiot, he was traded to the Bobcats.

          Point doesn't change though, it wasn't the particular players that was important.. I was trying to argue trading for young talent on rookie contracts might be a better route than trading our assets now for someone who will bolt because a lack of talent.
          Last edited by mattie; 07-05-2011, 03:58 AM.

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          • #20
            Re: If they were a package deal...

            Originally posted by King Tuts Tomb View Post
            Hoopshype has Hibbert and Granger's combined salaries at about $14.5 million.

            The chart on the left here has the top 30 salaries (don't know if they're from this year or last). Bynum, picks and cash maybe?
            Those are current salaries. I was so happy when they updated for the new fiscal year and all that **** on our financial roster was finally, mercifully gone.

            I can't come up with anything better than Jose's suggestion of Aldridge. Obviously you'd prefer a true 5 like Dwight, and in a vacuum that package would work to get a disgruntled star like him. The problem would be keeping him.
            Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

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            • #21
              Re: If they were a package deal...

              This package won't get us anything. Granger is a 2nd tier guy and Roy doesn't have enough value to turn a 2nd tier guy into a superstar... which means, we're going to get a 2nd tier and something else. If we add future first round picks then it could land us CP3/Howard.
              Originally posted by Piston Prince
              Bobcat fans telling us to cheer up = epic fail season
              "Josh Smith Re-building the city of Detroit one brick at a time"

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: If they were a package deal...

                But if you are Blazers, it makes 0 sense for you to trade Aldridge for Danny and Hibbert.
                Edit - in reply to the Aldridge posts.

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                • #23
                  Re: If they were a package deal...

                  I've never been a big DG fan and I'm kinda lukewarm on Hibbs. But
                  that said, I wouldn't even consider trading them as a package for
                  just Kevin Love.

                  Where Dwight Howard is concerned, I'd happily trade any combo
                  of 2 Pacers players required to make the deal happen.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: If they were a package deal...

                    Originally posted by imbtyler View Post
                    Unfortunately, this will sound crazy due to how prone to injury both players are, but if we got Greg Oden and Brandon Roy from Portland, we'd have our go-to scoring shooting guard with crunchtime fever. Yeh, we've got the position mostly filled now with George Hill, and it wouldn't really be worth losing two of our "franchise players" for two oft-injured benchriders with massive amounts of potential.
                    The question I was thinking about was if we would trade a 2nd round pick for Brandon Roy if Portland offered us the deal. There are rumors he could be a casualty of the amnesty clause.
                    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

                    - Salman Rushdie

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                    • #25
                      Re: If they were a package deal...

                      Originally posted by CooperManning View Post
                      I think the only semi-realistic one worth considering would be Kevin Love.

                      We couldn't get Lebron, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Griffin, Melo, Deron, or D-Rose. Dwight and CP3 wouldn't sign here. I wouldn't do it for players like Josh Smith, Iggy, Monta, Bosh, Bynum, etc.

                      Love's 22 and looks to be a fairly dominant big man for the next 8-10 years. Probably wouldn't have much of a problem re-signing him either.

                      I don't know if Minny would do it though. Derrick Williams and Beasley are both sort of 3s and Wes Johnson is a 2/3. Not tons of need for Danny, though they could use Roy.
                      Except Minny likes Danny, and Danny is significantly better than all those guys right now (I don't want to hear it, Beasley fans, you are wrong.) Danny is the consolation prize for losing your best player, Hibbert fills the big man hole.

                      This is one of those deals I would be more apt to consider once we have a better feel for how a guy like Paul George (and to a far lesser extent, Lance) is developing. If George starts to make the offensive strides people think he's capable of, a deal like this could be palatable.

                      That said, I feel like deals where teams swap their best players are really rare, I just don't see something like this happening... but who knows, it's Kahn.
                      "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                      - ilive4sports

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                      • #26
                        Re: If they were a package deal...

                        Howard and CP3 are pipe dreams. Neither would stay due to the loss of talent to get them. Why would they want to re-sign on a team that has little talent. Howard plays on a team now that has more talent than the Pacers would then.

                        Better yet, why would Bird make another deal for a player who will bolt as soon as their contract is up. Let's not forget what Bird's man crush for Peja ended up being... a half year rental of Peja that eventually turned into a 4 1/2 year albatross contract of a Warriors player that put the Pacers in salary he11. Surely, Bird has gotten smarter than that! At least, one would hope so.

                        All I see this trade doing is bailing out the Magic and Hornets from losing their star player while giving them good players to rebuild with while the Pacers are taking a HUGE gamble that they can keep Howard/CP3. I would hope Herb would NOT put his stamp of approval on such a wild gamble.

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                        • #27
                          Re: If they were a package deal...

                          I don't know; let's say we traded Danny and Roy and our 2012 first for Dwight Howard.

                          A core of Dwight Howard, Paul George, George Hill, Darren Collison, and Tyler Hansbrough combined with one or two core acquisitions from free agency or trade could be a pretty interesting team, even if Paul doesn't leap forward offensively like I think he might.

                          I'd certainly like to see Dwight in a system where the coach thinks "smash mouth" instead of a coach (SVG) who thinks "four out".

                          And if you want really good defense, starting Hill, George, and Dwight is a ridiculously good start. I would also imagine Dwight's presence in the paint would maximize Tyler Hansbrough's abilities as well (much like Shaq helped whichever PF was lucky enough to play with him back in the day).

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                          • #28
                            Re: If they were a package deal...

                            I would trade Granger + Hibbert plus 2012 first rounder + 2014 first rounder for Dwight Howard.

                            Then somehow get a SG that can score (like Mayo) and we're set.

                            Pretty easy eh
                            "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


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                            • #29
                              Re: If they were a package deal...

                              Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                              Howard and CP3 are pipe dreams. Neither would stay due to the loss of talent to get them. Why would they want to re-sign on a team that has little talent. Howard plays on a team now that has more talent than the Pacers would then.
                              Well its summer and there is a lockout. Pretty much pipe dreams are all we have to pass the time.

                              Granger and Hibbert would be enough to land Howard IMO but I would only do it if it was a sign and trade. I also don't think Howard would be willing to stay in Indy because as you pointed out there would be plenty of teams more talented than us to offer him a contract.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: If they were a package deal...

                                Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post
                                there would be plenty of teams more talented than us to offer him a contract.
                                And who would that be?

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