Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 5
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 template Next
  • #1

    Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

    A pretty straightforward account of the status of negotiations between players and owners, their motivations, and what's likely to happen next, i.e. nothing.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...players_063011

    NBA lockout threatens entire season
    Adrian Wojnarowski
    Yahoo! Sports

    NEW YORK – The final word of the first hours of the lockout belonged to the great manipulator of the basketball masses. Once again, David Stern beat Billy Hunter on the way out the door Thursday. In his manufactured, grim disposition, the NBA’s commissioner proclaimed the union had made an 11th-hour counter proposal that would call for the average salary to rise $2 million over the length of the agreement.

    It was a contorting of the numbers, but details don’t matter in this dispute. The public’s never going to side with the players, and that’s been as constant a fact of a quarter-century on the job as the emperor’s temper and his belief that the commissioner’s chair brings the privileges of a dictatorship.

    This time, the owners have delivered Stern an unmistakable marching order: Break these players; crush them once and for all.

    The union walked into the meeting with Stern on Thursday at the Berkshire Omni Hotel on the Manhattan’s eastside, and offered $600 million in givebacks over a six-year deal, a league source told Yahoo! Sports. And yet before Stern left the hotel, he had called a news conference and turned those concessions into a money grab from the players. Hunter had left the building, and left behind his chance to spin the story.

    So the NBA leveled the lockout at midnight on Thursday, and there’s a real chance the NBA is gone for a full year now. This has the makings of the NHL’s labor war of 2004-05, where the cost of instituting a hard salary cap cost the sport a complete season. The union elders don’t want to give into that, nor do the agents who could be rendered far less relevant in an NBA world where there’s no middle class of players. Stars will get paid, and everyone else will fight for the scraps left under a hard cap.

    “The key for this comes from, say, Sept. 1 to Sept. 15,” says a source involved in the talks. “The owners have always been willing to blow off July and August, but once they cancel the first part of the season, that’s when we find out if they have the stomach to go the distance.”

    For now, Hunter has the support of the players, but the agents could eventually erode it. Mostly, the agents don’t see a way out here. They don’t see a chance for Hunter to negotiate them out of harm’s way. “I honestly have no idea what our strategy is here,” one prominent agent said this week. “Do we have one?”

    Privately, the agents will keep pushing for union decertification. They’ll push for the courts, for chaos, and pray the threat will get the owners to back away from their nuclear demands. The union still hopes those less adamant over the hard cap – the Los Angeles Lakers and Miami Heat, for example – will wrest control from the hardliners, including the Phoenix Suns, Boston Celtics and Cleveland Cavaliers.

    The union wishes the owners would solve their competitive-balance issues with revenue sharing, but why should they? They want to make the players do it, and who’s to stop them now? The players also have never been so prepared for a work stoppage, so educated on the issues, the ramifications and that’s a testament to Hunter, Derek Fisher(notes) and the information age.

    Nevertheless, it won’t matter. This isn’t right or wrong. This isn’t fair and unfair.

    These fights are always about one thing: pain tolerance.

    The owners believe they have more tolerance than the players, believe that pain comes with missed checks in November and December and perhaps, finally, a complete cave with time to rush a shortened 50-game regular season and playoffs. Back in the labor talks of 2005, Celtics owner Wyc Grousbeck would say over and over in the negotiating sessions: The lockout is an investment.

    Grousbeck smartened up, kept that thought to himself, but rest assured the mindset hasn’t changed. He’s one of the owners believed to be willing to lose the next season, along with Phoenix’s Robert Sarver. The list goes on and on. The NBA goes away for the summer now, and nothing will get serious again until September when Stern will have to start cancelling games in the 2011-12 season.

    These are his marching orders, his call to arms for the owners. Stern cares deeply about his legacy, far more than most of these brash, younger owners who’d probably prefer a different commissioner anyway. They didn’t hire him, and he didn’t help them make fortunes owning teams like the Pollins and Davidsons did under Stern’s watch.

    The NBA’s old dictatorship is getting dictated to now, and everything changes with this lockout. There’s a compromise somewhere between the extremes of the owners and players, and the burden belongs to the commissioner to sell the hardliners on reaching out and making that deal. Unless Stern gets them to back down, unless the players cave come autumn, say goodbye to the NBA for a full year. And say goodbye to David Stern’s legacy, which will look like that of one more star player who stayed too long in the game, who was the last to know when it all passed him by.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

    Another lockout article. Teams are forbidden (on the pain of fines) from having any contact at all with players, their families, agents, and any other sort of representative. I hope this puts to bed that fantasy that Vogel will be running informal workouts for the players during the workout.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu..._impact_063011

    NBA draws lines of battle for players
    By Marc J. Spears, Yahoo! Sports 6 hours, 35 minutes ago

    NEW ORLEANS – Chris Paul(notes) stood on the Tulane University track Thursday morning underneath a rainbow arch made of teal and yellow balloons in the New Orleans Hornets’ colors. Paul was there to host a youth fitness event, and Dennis Rogers, the Hornets’ director of basketball communication, was helping coordinate. Hugo, the Hornets’ mascot, entertained the children while Randy Greenup, the Hornets’ security guard and a close friend of Paul’s, also worked the event.

    And by the end of the day, Paul wouldn’t be allowed to speak with any of them.

    With the NBA deciding to implement a lockout after failing to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement with the Players Association, teams are now forbidden from having any contact with players. That’s why Paul planned to spend Thursday afternoon playing golf with Greenup. Paul has planned for Greenup to be in his wedding in September, but if the lockout hasn’t been lifted, Greenup will need special permission from the league to even attend.

    “The past three or four days we’ve been together all day every day because starting tomorrow I can’t talk to one of my closest friends,” Paul said.

    Life promises to be awkward for Paul and most other players during the NBA’s first work stoppage since the 1998-99 lockout. The league gave team officials a long list of people connected to players that they can’t communicate with, including agents, family members, personal staff, workout guys and shoe representatives. Several sources said the league office is intent on cracking down on any violations, proposing hefty fines to teams and individuals and possibly even firings. If team officials have a chance encounter with players, they are ordered to record details of the meeting and report it.

    NBA.com and team websites can’t program pictures or video of players. Employees in team ticket offices can’t mention players’ names when trying to sell season-ticket packages. One assistant coach has asked for permission for a player to be in his wedding.

    “It’s crazy,” Paul said.

    League and team officials can’t call, text, email or tweet players. Facebook is out, too. The league might even check phone records of team employees to ensure no contact is taking place. Spouses of team employees also have been instructed not to speak with players’ wives or girlfriends, one source said. Nor can teams help players purchase tickets to events in their arenas – like concerts – during the work stoppage.

    “I told one of my coworkers that you know this is serious when we are getting briefed about it with all the vice presidents of the team in the room,” one team official said.

    Many teams spent the past week working out their draft picks and free agents in anticipation of the lockout. Players aren’t allowed in team facilities during the lockout. Golden State Warriors rookies Klay Thompson(notes) and Jeremy Tyler(notes) said they planned on grabbing as much gear as possible prior to leaving.

    “I’m taking everything they put in my locker,” Tyler said.

    Older veteran players like Grant Hill(notes) and Jason Kidd(notes) have expressed concern about a lengthy lockout threatening the possible final seasons of their careers. But of all the players, rookies might be hurt the most. They won’t have a summer league and some of them could decide to go overseas to ensure they’re getting a check. Enes Kanter(notes) and Jonas Valanciunas(notes), who were taken by the Utah Jazz and Toronto Raptors with the third and fifth picks, respectively, have said they will consider playing overseas in a lockout.

    “I’m worried about the lockout, but not to the extent where it’s overbearing and it’s weighing down on me,” said Kyrie Irving(notes), the No. 1 pick by the Cleveland Cavaliers. “I really don’t think the lockout will extend to a year. I don’t think the fans could take it. The players can’t take it. The media can’t take it. Everyone can’t take such a big hit.

    “The NBA is built on tradition and that’s something that they want to hold for a while. I’m hoping that they come to an agreement soon and it doesn’t cut into my contract at all.”

    Longtime NBA agent Bill Duffy said he has been telling players for 2½ years to save their money and prepare for a lockout. Duffy believes the union and players are better equipped to handle a lengthy lockout after their experience in 1998-99, when the season was shortened to 50 games. Still, Duffy also expressed concern about the hard-line stance of some owners.

    “There is a new set of owners,” Duffy said. “They are more zealous in their convictions.

    “The league is flourishing. It would be absurd and foolish for a long lockout.”

    Paul is a member of the Players Association’s executive committee along with fellow Derek Fisher(notes) (president), Keyon Dooling(notes), Theo Ratliff(notes) and Maurice Evans(notes). He’s also the only All-Star in the group and the only player on the committee making superstar money ($16.3 million).

    With endorsements from Jordan Brand and Right Guard – along with the money he’s already saved – Paul is much better positioned than most of his peers to survive a long lockout financially. Despite the financial disparity from the stars and role players, Paul said they’re still united.

    “My role is very important because I give a different perspective,” Paul said. “By being the only [maximum-salaried] guy on the executive committee, I can give a perspective for Carmelo Anthony(notes), D-Wade [Dwayne Wade], LeBron [James] and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, our executive committee is a whole.”

    Prior to the lockout, teams reached out to some of the noted trainers across the country like former NBA coach and player John Lucas(notes) in Houston, Chicago-based Tim Grover, Las Vegas-based Joe Abunassar and several in the Los Angeles area like Rob McClanaghan and Tony Falce. One NBA general manager said information was passed on to players about where to work out during the lockout. Lucas said about 30 players – about twice as many as usual – will work with him and other former NBA and college coaches and trainers at three sites in Houston.

    “Half the league has called me asking, ‘What do you have to offer? What do you do? What players will be there?’ ” Lucas said.

    Said Falce: “I’m available eight days a week out of seven.”

    Some players also plan to play in pro-am leagues, including three prominent ones in Los Angeles. The Drew League in South Central L.A. currently includes Kevin Durant(notes), Ron Artest(notes), Michael Beasley(notes) and J.R. Smith(notes) among others. Rapper Snoop Dogg sometimes attends the free games at Washington Park. While the Drew League finishes play Aug. 13, commissioner Dino Smiley is considering adding a second league if the lockout hasn’t been lifted. Two other L.A. pro-am leagues (Nike Real Run and HAX Summer League) begin in mid-August. Several NBA players also play at UCLA. NBA team personnel, however, can’t attend games.

    “We’re getting people cramped in the stands,” Smiley said. “Dwight Howard(notes), Zach Randolph(notes) and O.J. Mayo(notes) are supposed to play this weekend.”

    One NBA GM said he spent much of Thursday speaking to his team’s players for the final time before the lockout started. He doesn’t know when he’ll talk to them again.

    If the lockout lasts long, Paul plans to spend a lot of time in his hometown of Winston Salem, N.C., with his fiancé, Jada Crawley, and their young son. He might even return to Wake Forest to take some more classes toward his degree.

    “It’s not just about [the owners] standing firm,” Paul said. “We’re just as firm. We’re standing together. We’re strong. We’re unified. We all talk. As long as we stay on the same page like we are right now, I think everything will work out fine.”

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

      I'm pretty sure the NBA cannot fine Vogel as he is not technically under contract with the Pacers.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

        http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...out/index.html

        Players lose luxuries, teams lose contact with strict lockout rules
        Sam Amick, SI

        When the last NBA lockout was finally lifted in 1999, Larry Brown was among the lucky ones.

        The then-Philadelphia coach had veterans like Matt Geiger and Eric Snow to help in the most unusual of offseasons, imploring young players to stay in shape while they were unable to communicate with the coaches and trainers who would typically keep them on task. Not every coach was so lucky.

        Then-Cleveland coach Mike Fratello said goodbye to one version of Shawn Kemp in the summertime and said hello to a much-bigger version six months later, when the then-29-year-old who had signed a seven-year, $98 million deal in 1997 reportedly arrived at training camp weighing more than 300 pounds and was never the same in the years to come. With Thursday's news that a lockout is about to begin, Kemp is officially the cautionary tale that is now a concern for executives and coaches around the league in this restrictive and unforgiving labor landscape.

        "If you don't have veteran guys, the rookies are going to struggle [in a lockout]," said Brown, whose team improved in the lockout-shortened season and survived until the second round of the playoffs. "You have to have leadership that has everyone ready to go when the time comes because you can't afford to have guys playing into shape in training camp."

        It's one of the many challenges of life in a lockout, with the players forced to forgo the luxuries they've grown so accustomed to while team officials wait and wonder what kind of shape their investments will be in when they return. The rules of this game are strict on the part of the NBA. Significant fines are assessed to any team employees who dare disobey, with one GM estimating the monetary punishment at $1 million.

        Team employees are not permitted to have even remote contact with players, their agents or even their friends or family members, meaning the lines of communication between the two sides are completely cut off. Players, meanwhile, can't use team facilities or enjoy the many perks that come with the NBA lifestyle.

        "It's kind of like sending your kids off to summer camp," one general manager said this week. "You want to make sure they have all the stuff they need, all the clothes they need, and all the tools they need, all the money they need and everything they need. But then it's out of your control. Some kids come home crying and some kids have the best experience of their lives. That's really what this is.

        "You can't talk to their agent, to their uncle, their brother, some buddy of theirs. Nothing. I think the commissioner [David Stern] is going to threaten people with such an incredible amount of money or draft picks that people will obey."

        The awkward exchanges will ensue in the coming weeks, as players are sure to bend the rules if only because of habit. As a result, executives and coaches will find themselves hitting "ignore" on any and all cellphone calls that aren't identifiable while others will have to hang up quickly for fear that their phone records might become evidence.

        The list of off-court deeds that are done for players is often long, with team officials collaborating with agents to provide a support system that will no longer be in place. No more free carwashes or help with that speeding ticket you forgot to handle. No more free lunch -- both literally and figuratively. And as noted by veteran center Brad Miller recently when he revealed that he recently had microfracture surgery on his left knee, even rehabilitation must be handled elsewhere.

        "At the end of the day, the league wants it to be difficult [for the players]," one executive said. "It's like getting kicked out of a club."

        Exceptions on contact will be made only with the approval of the league office. Players with upcoming weddings, for example, must submit a list of names of attendees who work for the NBA in order to help their guests avoid reprimand. But there will be no forgiveness for seemingly innocent mistakes. The onus is on team employees to avoid putting themselves in the same locale as players or communicate with them in any way.

        "What it amounts to," another GM said, "is that before you go do anything [involving a player], you'd better check with the league office."

        Friendships can and will be tested during these times, too. One executive expressed concern that a player who isn't educated on these rules might take it personally when a team employee essentially pretends he doesn't exist.

        "Eighty percent of the league doesn't know what they're facing right now," one of the GMs said regarding the players.

        Teams have been preparing for this day for months, many of them issuing a script of sorts that details the preferred offseason training program and desired goals to achieve for that particular player and some making last-minute trips to check in with players around the country. In truth, the training and how it is handled is less of a concern for teams now than it will be later.

        "[Players] aren't going to adjust what they would normally do in July and August," one of the GMs said. "Where it really gets tricky is when October has come and gone, and then it's a matter of 'How hard do I push it? Am I going to do two-a-days in October when we might not start until January? Do I take my foot off the gas, then I get a phone call and camp starts in a week and I'm not where I needed to be?'"

        The players' inability to use team facilities is likely to be a boon for business at places like Impact Academy in Las Vegas, where trainer Joe Abunassar has already seen an increase in NBA clientele in recent months as the looming lockout neared. It's on the shortlist of hoops hubs that will now be called home for so many players, joining Tim Grover's facility in Chicago and the IMG Academy in Bradenton, Fla.

        Some agents with a longer list of clients have partnerships that will come in handy now, such as Mark Bartelstein with trainer Don Maclean at the 360 Health Club outside Los Angeles and Arn Tellem with trainer Rob McClanahan in Santa Monica. But numerous front-office sources who spoke to SI.com for this story were skeptical that players would be disciplined enough to stay in shape throughout a prolonged lockout.

        "We're making sure our guys are set up in their workout programs, that they're prepared to be working on their games and improving their bodies," Bartelstein said. "And then we'll look at other opportunities that we think could come up for players, whether it's playing in exhibition games, traveling abroad. There are all kinds of things that could be coming down the road."

        There will be plenty of time to pursue such ideas -- especially considering the monumental gap that must be bridged between the two sides. Most players don't start missing checks until November because of the pay schedule, leading to an assumption that the pressure to get a deal done won't truly increase until then.

        "If the league is going to take the position that they're currently taking, it's going to be a long [lockout]," Bartelstein said. "It's very Draconian. That's the only way to describe it. When you're doing a deal, you know when someone wants to make a deal or doesn't want to make a deal. And it's hard to feel any comfort that the league is really interested in making a deal at this point.

        "The players' association made a heck of a move to go from 57 to 54 percent [on basketball-related income being paid to players in a recent proposal]. That was an unbelievable gesture that actually surprised me. And for the league to say that they made a modest proposal tells you everything you need to know right there."

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

          http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...ToKhQ2WDY6s87K

          Let inactivity begin for NBA fat cats
          By PETER VECSEY
          Last Updated: 4:54 AM, June 28, 2011
          Posted: 1:21 AM, June 28, 2011

          If you successfully surmised two rounds of the draft were internationally interminable, stay tuned for the rounds and rounds of ridiculousness we're in store for in the coming months (years?) after the NBA's owners unanimously vote today in Dallas to lock out the players on July 1.

          More of the same squealing silliness, in other words, that some outlets got suckered into comprehensively covering for much of 2011.

          Chalk me up as being utterly apathetic in the past and in the future. What's more, my living will explicitly forbids exhumation should the new Collective Bargaining Agreement ever be resolved.

          I'm guessing the 12th of Never rolls around first.

          How are the league and the Player's Association expected to reach a equitable compromise when the horde of freshly-minted militant owners demand David Stern repossess a load of luxury bartered away previously . . . a treaty the commissioner had happily pronounced as mutually beneficial?

          Every indicator points to the owners wanting nothing less than $900 million in revenue retuned. That's the root of the non-negotiation. Stern has demanded that from day one, starting two years ago when he told executive director Billy Hunter as much at a meeting in Cleveland, and hasn't flinched. Each owner wants to be assured of a $30 million annual profit.

          The pressure is definitely on Stern to make the players "give" and they definitely feel his fangs. In most negotiations one side opens up by insisting on the sun, the other side counters with an equally outer space offer, and they end up meeting near the moon.

          While the league recently backed off a couple zany demands, nothing of consequence (see above) has happened to convince the union there's any middle ground to be found, maybe ever.

          And, so, the NBA will shut down operations for the second time in 14 seasons. That costs money. But it also means teams can't lose as much by staying open for business; many employees, the ones not already laid off, will get paid less, half salary in innumerable cases, and there's no summer leagues, or rookie camps, etc., to bankroll.

          As for the players, the free agents are the biggest losers; management's financial flexibility to make monumental mistakes evidently is ending. Contracted union workers are not expected to panic until they miss at least one pay check . . . although, I'm told, supposedly players are much more psychologically and economically prepared this time.

          Will the players remain united or turn on the negotiating committee as they did during the last lockout, a revolt Stern privately celebrated but obviously greatly laments today? Thirty-two games of the 1998-99 season were wiped out.

          Back then, Stern's "Drop Dead" date was Jan. 7. If an arrangement couldn't be arrived at by then, he threatened to cancel the entire season. By Jan. 20, the league was back in action.

          July 1 is a "Play Dead" date, it says here. Closing down the league is not going to sweat the players or soften the stance of hardcore owners. In fact, once they walk away in a huff, count on positions to remain intransigently unchanged come early October when players normally report to training camp . . . when the season usually starts several weeks later and, as paralleled, right into early January . . . and beyond.

          Until that blood bath is drawn, don't expect either side to budge. Why would the owners or the union make their best offer yesterday, today or six months from now when there's still plenty of time to bargain in bad faith?

          "No, we have not made our best offer," recently said an official whose affiliation, in all fairness, I opt to protect. "If we made our best offer now they wouldn't believe it was our best offer the next time we negotiated."

          Meaning, you can't get ahead of yourself in negations. Best offers are held in reserve for a Drop Dead date not a Play Dead date.

          Is it any wonder I'm so unsympathetic? Why get bent out of shape or passionately involved in either side's cause when, the end of the day, the players are still going to be multi-millionaires and the owners are still going to be billionaires?

          What's the worst that can happen to the guys in the used-to-be shorts? Smaller posse? Fewer baby mamas? Drive domestic?

          As for the owners, they can inject all the fuzzy math they want into the equation about how many teams are losing money and how much, but humor me for a second while I get rhapsodize rhetorical:

          1. How many of these billionaires actually rely on their teams to make ends meet?

          2. How is it that every time a team gets sold, it fetches more folding money than the last time it was up for bids?

          Stern orates about wanting the owners and players to be equal partners. I assume that means losses and profits. Fine, so fix it that the players get half the profit when the franchise is sold and half the annual write-offs.

          You know who really deserves a seat at the table? No, not paying customers; they apparently enjoy having their pockets picked, no matter how deep.

          It's the arena ancillaries, especially in smaller markets -- from team game-days to vendors to parking lot attendants, all whom badly need those 41-plus dates to help balance their own books -- in addition to neighborhood restaurant owners, whose existence might not totally depend on pre-and-post-game traffic, but get to maintain/increase staffs because of it.

          These are the only people I'm really concerned about.

          Don't make me pretend I care what happens to the owners or the players.

          *

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

            If this does happen it would allow Deron Williams to leave the nets after only playing 12 games with them via espn radio. Would give a much better FA class for the Pacers i think a season long lockout is a strong possibility and will ensure the pacers wont leave Indy any time soon. I hope the owners play hard ball and they get a good deal so the Pacers can stay in Indy.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

              http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011...hursday-night/

              Of note, the NBA did not cancel the first two weeks of the 1998-99 NBA season until October 13, 1998, 22 days before the scheduled November 3 start of the season. The league canceled NBC’s Christmas Day doubleheader on November 23, and the 1999 NBA All-Star Game from Philadelphia on December 8.

              Also of note the regular season is set to start Tuesday November 1st. Training camp 4 weeks prior to that which is October 4th
              Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-01-2011, 11:10 AM.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                Man, this is really going to suck...

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011...hursday-night/

                  Of note, the NBA did not cancel the first two weeks of the 1998-99 NBA season until October 13, 1998, 22 days before the scheduled November 3 start of the season. The league canceled NBC’s Christmas Day doubleheader on November 23, and the 1999 NBA All-Star Game from Philadelphia on December 8.
                  I think Reggie got screwed out of what would've been a 6th All-Star game appearance because of the lockout. It also lessened his point total and total 3-pointers made. If he had those additional 32 games he could probably still be the leader in 3-pointers made by the time his nomination to the Hall of Fame came around. That might've made a difference.

                  A lost season will hurt certain player's legacies. The last lockout killed Shawn Kemp and Vin Baker's careers. Players like Kobe Bryant and Jason Kidd who are lock HOFers still might miss out on climbing up the All-Time leaders list in scoring and assists respectively if they miss games.

                  I think it's possible that an entire season will be missed. I didn't think that a couple of days ago but after reading how far apart the two sides are I think this upcoming season is in serious jeopardy.

                  Unlike the NFL, NBA players can easily go overseas and play exhibition games or even join a professional squad on a limited contracted basis. They actually have several money-making opportunities.

                  You can't tell me that an All-Star squad of players wouldn't be a big hit in London, Barcelona, or Shanghai. They could organize a global tour with set teams and play a 16 team tournament. Sponsors would line up to endorse it.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                    The Lockout FAQ

                    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/column...koutFAQ-110701

                    Lockout FAQ: Uncertain future ahead
                    By Larry Coon
                    Special to ESPN.com

                    It's here. For two years we've had July 1, 2011, circled on our calendars, and a small shiver went down our spines every time we looked ahead to that date. Or we went through some ritual akin to whistling in a graveyard, trying to purge the lingering thought from our heads.

                    But now it's here. There's no avoiding it and no denying it. We just have to face it. The NBA's collective bargaining agreement has expired. The league has locked out its players. And it may be a long time before any of us sees NBA basketball played again.

                    Since the lockout will be occupying every NBA fan's mind for the foreseeable future, it's time to answer some of the more commonly asked questions about the work stoppage. I won't bother with elementary questions like "What's a lockout?" If you're taking the time to read an NBA labor article in July, you already know what a lockout is. And if you didn't know a week ago, you've now had it explained to you on every website, radio show, podcast, newspaper and TV show that covers the NBA.

                    So let's concentrate on the questions to which you may not already know the answer. We'll also mix in questions about what life might be like in a post-lockout NBA.

                    If the owners get a hard cap, how will teams like the Lakers and Magic get under it?
                    The league's previous soft cap was really more of a suggestion than an actual spending limit. Teams were free to operate above the cap so long as they used certain mechanisms called exceptions, and few teams were ever below the cap during an NBA season. The owners' original proposal sought to change all that, and called for a $45 million hard cap.

                    A true hard cap is a different animal altogether -- teams are required to be below a hard cap at all times. If a $45 million hard cap were to be imposed starting with the 2011-12 season, a number of teams would be in trouble. For example, the Lakers have already committed to over $91 million in salaries for 2011-12, and the Magic aren't far behind, at just over $76 million.

                    But teams likely wouldn't be forced to jettison half their rosters should a hard cap be imposed. The same proposal that included a hard cap also included salary rollbacks (reductions in existing salaries of 15 to 25 percent) and an amnesty provision, which would allow teams to waive one player without cap consequences. These provisions would have softened the blow of a hard cap, and additional rules likely would have accommodated teams in other ways.

                    Also keep in mind that the league's proposal for a $45 million hard cap was just that -- one proposal. Their next proposal kept the hard cap, but gave teams a three-year grace period before it would be imposed. They further softened their stance in later proposals, adopting what they called a "flex cap," which is a hybrid between a soft cap and a hard cap. It is possible that as negotiations continue, the proposals will become less and less stringent, and the final agreement won't force teams to make tough decisions regarding their core players.

                    If there is a hard cap, will the league provide teams with an amnesty clause? How would it work?
                    The 2005 CBA included a clause referred to as the "Luxury Tax Amnesty Provision." It allowed teams to waive one player whose salary would then be excluded from the team's luxury tax calculations. This clause was added because the league changed its luxury tax system in the 2005 agreement. Teams made their roster decisions based on the terms of the 1999 agreement, and might have planned differently had the 2005 rules been in place at the time. The provision was seen as a way of accommodating teams that may have been impacted by these rule changes.

                    This year the league wants to change more than just the luxury tax system -- it wants to make fundamental changes to the salary-cap system itself. Depending on how the negotiations turn out, these changes could be as severe as implementing a hard cap with which teams must immediately comply.

                    If the league makes a fundamental change to the salary-cap rules, it is expected to follow suit with another amnesty provision to accommodate the impacted teams. Such a provision would likely allow teams to waive one player, whose salary would then be excluded from the team's salary-cap calculations. The player would still be paid in full -- for example, Orlando couldn't use such a provision to escape its commitment to pay Gilbert Arenas the $62.3 million he is owed over the next three seasons.

                    The owners' proposal which included a $45 million hard cap reportedly also included such a provision. But the final determination won't be made until the two sides actually come to terms on a new agreement. The specific workings of an amnesty provision -- or whether a provision is included at all -- ultimately will depend on the changes that are made to the salary-cap system. It's possible that the next agreement will include an amnesty provision that can be used on more than one player, or can be used more than once during the lifetime of the agreement.

                    Can players have any contact with teams, coaches or trainers during the lockout?
                    No, and in fact according to ESPN.com's Ric Bucher, teams will be fined $1 million for any contact. This would presumably extend to player agents, but as of this writing one agent says he hasn't heard anything official on this yet.

                    When do players start missing paychecks?
                    The regular NBA pay schedule has 12 biweekly paydays, starting Nov. 15 and ending May 1. But some players are paid over 12 months, and will continue to be paid their 2010-11 salaries through Dec. 1.

                    Teams are only required to pay 20 percent of a player's salary on regular league paydays. The remaining 80 percent can be paid according to whatever schedule the team and player agree to. A few players receive a large lump-sum payment July 1, the first allowable date.

                    So some players will miss their first paycheck July 1. All players will miss their first paycheck no later than Nov. 15.

                    What is union decertification?
                    Decertification occurs when the players effectively dissolve the union. It's a tactic that clears the way for the players to sue the league for antitrust violation. Many league practices, such as the draft and salary restraints, are exempted from federal antitrust laws because they are part of a collective bargaining agreement. This protection extends past the expiration of the agreement so long as a labor relationship continues to exist between the two sides.

                    By decertifying their union, the players would end that labor relationship and, in theory, also end the league's exemption from antitrust laws. This would clear the way for a lawsuit against the league.

                    How would union decertification affect the labor dispute? Would the NBA players actually decertify their union?
                    A union decertification would do nothing to hasten a solution to the labor dispute. It would put a stop to the negotiations and open the door to an extended legal battle. It's more like a nuclear option -- its mere threat could motivate the league to negotiate in earnest, but it also comes with consequences that no one wants to contemplate.

                    Union president Derek Fisher understands the potential consequences of decertification, and has said it represents more of a last resort than a first choice. "For us, decertification is never something that you want to do -- it's not a strategy like that," he said. "It's more a decision you make when your hand is forced and there isn't another option to try to save the season."

                    David Stern said that if the players decertify their union, all contracts would become null and void. What did he mean? None of the legal experts I consulted are entirely sure what he meant. The act of locking out the players means the players won't be paid until the labor dispute ends and a new agreement is in place. Once that happens, the players' paychecks resume.

                    So Stern had to have meant that if the players decertify the union during the lockout, then their contracts become unenforceable, even after the dispute is settled. According to everyone I've talked to, this simply is not true. Perhaps Stern was speaking metaphorically, as if to say that if the players decertify their union, it will be a long, long time before the dispute is settled -- so the contracts will have expired before the players actually return to work.

                    Can NBA players play overseas during a lockout?
                    The answer to this one is "It's complicated." Stern said as far as he's concerned, the players can do what they want to do. But keep in mind, he's going to say that regardless -- he doesn't want to appear in any way to be trying to prevent the players from earning a living. Labor laws don't allow an employer to lock out its employees and prevent them from earning a living elsewhere.

                    Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Stern says or does -- the decision isn't up to him.

                    In order to play professionally overseas, FIBA (the organizing body for international basketball) requires a Letter of Clearance from the player's national organizing body. In the case of players from the United States, that's USA Basketball. The Letter of Clearance certifies that the player is free to sign a contract -- i.e., he has no other contractual obligations that would get in the way. An NBA contract is such a contractual obligation. Lockout or not, it's still an existing contract. So on the surface, an NBA player who's under contract would not be allowed to sign in any FIBA league. NBA free agents, on the other hand, can sign wherever they'd like.

                    But here's the rub -- we're getting into uncharted territory. FIBA has never found itself in this position before. FIBA could decide to alter or suspend its rule requiring a Letter of Clearance, or allow contracts to be signed so long as they contain language that says the contract becomes null and void immediately if the NBA lockout ends.

                    More likely, FIBA simply would stick to its existing rule, essentially punting the problem to the national organizing bodies. These bodies (such as USA Basketball) could decide to issue a Letter of Clearance notwithstanding the NBA lockout. Or they could issue a Letter of Clearance with a specific notation about the lockout -- essentially punting the problem right back to FIBA.

                    Finally, the NBA players could take FIBA and/or the national organizing bodies to court. The ability to block players in a lockout has never been tested through litigation, and once they're there, anything can happen.

                    If players under contract are cleared to play in Europe, will there be a mass exodus?
                    It's doubtful. For one thing, there simply aren't enough teams with enough open roster spots to accommodate 400-plus NBA players. And the ones who do sign overseas will likely make only a fraction of what they earned in the NBA. The Euroleague and other FIBA leagues simply can't afford to pay NBA players commensurate with the salaries to which they've grown accustomed.

                    So we will probably see a few head overseas, but certainly not a Who's Who of NBA players.

                    If the lockout lasts an entire season, what will happen with the 2012 draft? How will the draft order be determined?
                    If the season is canceled and the sides come to an agreement by next June, the 2012 draft should go on as planned. The draft order will be a little tricky. There will be no season upon which to determine the order, and they can't just repeat the 2011 draft order -- that would "reward" teams twice for the same bad season in 2010-11.

                    The NHL was faced with this dilemma when it lost its 2004-05 season to a lockout. The league settled on a weighted lottery that included all 30 teams. The weighting was based on playoff appearances over the previous three seasons and first overall picks over the previous four seasons.

                    The NBA would likely adopt a similar system should the 2011-12 season be canceled. It would be a one-time occurrence -- the league would revert to its usual system the following year.

                    If the lockout lasts an entire year, what happens to contracts that expire following the 2011-12 season? Do they expire anyway, or does the contract extend through 2012-13?
                    A contract that is scheduled to expire following the 2011-12 season should expire on June 30, 2012, whether or not the season is played. This means it's possible that 2012 free agents -- like Dwight Howard -- may have already played their last game for their current teams. Nervous teams had the opportunity to make a trade by June 30 to avoid the risk of losing these players without compensation. However, no such trade was completed, which may indicate either some faith in their ability to hang on to their potential free agents, or in the league's ability to resolve the labor dispute before the season is lost. (Sacramento and Cleveland swapped Omri Casspi and J.J. Hickson on Thursday, but neither player's contract ends in 2012.)

                    It is also possible for the two sides to mutually agree that 2011-12 "didn't happen," so all contracts will simply be pushed back by one year. Therefore this is all subject to negotiation.

                    After the labor dispute is settled, will my team be able to ….
                    We're a long way away from knowing how the rules will work in the next agreement. At this point it's unknown whether there will be a hard cap or a soft cap, how much room teams will have to sign free agents, what the trade rules might be or whether exceptions will continue to exist. So it's pointless to ask right now if the Knicks will be able to sign a third star to go with Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, if Orlando will need to trade Dwight Howard, if New Jersey will need to trade Deron Williams, if Miami can add a point guard and a center to complement the Big Three, if the Bulls can add a shooting guard, if the Clippers can add a small forward or if the Lakers can add a point guard who's not an AARP member. These questions will just have to wait.

                    The only hope is that we won't have to wait too long.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                      Originally posted by naptownmenace View Post

                      Unlike the NFL, NBA players can easily go overseas and play exhibition games or even join a professional squad on a limited contracted basis. They actually have several money-making opportunities.

                      You can't tell me that an All-Star squad of players wouldn't be a big hit in London, Barcelona, or Shanghai. They could organize a global tour with set teams and play a 16 team tournament. Sponsors would line up to endorse it.
                      NBA players who are currently under contract probably won't have that option (see the Lockout FAQ I just posted).

                      It's exhibition games though, nothing stops the players from organizing games in the US. In fact, didn't they organize at least one exhibition match during the last lockout?

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                        I was running the numbers. Players get paid every other week during the season - 12 checks.

                        if a player makes: then their checks are?
                        2M - 166,666
                        3M - 250,000
                        5M - 416,666
                        6M - 500,000
                        8M - 666,666
                        9m - 750,000
                        10M - 833,333
                        12m - 1,000,000
                        15M - 1,250,000


                        Wow those are some pretty big checks coming every two weeks

                        I wonder who gets paid throughout the entire year? would those be the superstars?
                        Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-01-2011, 11:38 AM.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                          I think my bank would laugh at me if I tried to deposit a 1.25 million dollar check.


                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                            Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                            NBA players who are currently under contract probably won't have that option (see the Lockout FAQ I just posted).

                            It's exhibition games though, nothing stops the players from organizing games in the US. In fact, didn't they organize at least one exhibition match during the last lockout?
                            The FAQ said that FIBA could waive the need to get clearance from USA Basketball and the player could sign limited contracts. It's probably not likely unless the Players Union threatens to sue FIBA. FIBA might cave to avoid getting dragged into a legal battle and paying attorneys to defend them.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Woj: NBA lockout theatens entire season

                              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                              I think my bank would laugh at me if I tried to deposit a 1.25 million dollar check.

                              yeah, I assume they all have direct deposit

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 3 4 5 template Next
                              Working...
                              X