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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Do you like the pick and trade?

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  • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
    That was what Larry Bird said to Bob Kravitz after the conclusion of the Chicago series. I've said for several months now that the Pacers' biggest position of need was point guard. Perhaps Bird agrees and believes this to be the case. This is the second year in a row he's made a big move to acquire one.

    Without a shred of doubt, George Hill makes us better, both for the short term and the long term. As of this morning, he is the best point guard on the roster. My guess is he'll outplay Darren Collison in camp and earn his spot as the new starter. It may be a fair statement to say that he is actually a 6' 2" shooting guard. That's probably his most natural position. However, Collison started every game he played in last year at point guard, and he's essentially nothing more than a 6' 0" shooting guard either.

    Hill has mostly played off the ball in San Antonio. He hasn't been afforded the opportunity to be a playmaker, and his career assist numbers show that. However, I don't think there is much to lose in that area considering what we got out of Collison last year. Where Hill makes us better isn't on the offensive end. The difference offensively between Hill and Collison, is not enough to make a case for either player.

    Defensively, it isn't even a contest. Hill is one of the better defending guards in the league. He can defend both guard positions, and will make life easier on all the players behind him. Containing dribble penetration was the Achilles' heel of the Pacers defense last season, and that started with Collison. Hopefully playing with a back court of Hill and Paul George will be enough to convince Danny Granger that it's a worthwhile endeavor to defend again.

    Provided he signs a long term contract and stays, he especially makes us better in the long run. He might develop into the future starting point guard, or perhaps we'd be better off finding a true point guard to start, while using him as a defensive stopper/scoring guard off the bench. I can see him working out in either fashion.

    What really matters is, the Pacers got a better player in George Hill than they could have gotten with the 15th pick or 42nd pick, or that Euro guy. This trade feels like a win for everybody. The Spurs got fair value for a guy they really like, but probably would have had a hard time signing. The Pacers got a guy they needed, and that is happy to be playing in Indy again. George Hill gets to come home and further strengthen a solid core of youth that has the chance to develop into one of the better teams in the conference.

    It really doesn't matter whether he is the starting point guard, or the first guard off the bench playing big minutes. This trade makes us better. Well done Larry.
    I agree totally, with Hill at starting PG next year we have a chance to be one of the top defensive teams in East!
    You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

    Comment


    • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

      Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post


      I couldn't agree more about the "D" aspect.

      You truly feel in the long term Hill is better than having gotten Leonard or Brooks at #15 and Jenkins at #42? I just don't see it. Short term I could see, but not long term. My feeling in 2-3 years both would have been as good as Hill. In the years to come, I will watch how both develop with interest.
      Most coaches don't play an expanded rotation and Leonard, and Jenkins would be collecting a lot of DNPS or poo poo minutes. We have very little understanding about Brooks overall defense and his willingness to play team ball both defensively and offensively.

      The fact is we won't have the minutes for these guys to learn NBA basketball once you factor in FA signings and the amount of money that we can spend to bring in quality vets.

      Comment


      • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

        Originally posted by tfarks View Post
        Hill and Ginobli played really well together. I can envision Lance making those passes.
        As I said earlier, I think this trade was made with Lance in mind. George Hill is the perfect SG/PG next to him.

        Comment


        • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

          leonard would have been stuck behind george and granger.... averaged about 5-10 minutes a game and would not be relevant

          Comment


          • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

            Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
            You truly feel in the long term Hill is better than having gotten Leonard or Brooks at #15 and Jenkins at #42? I just don't see it. Short term I could see, but not long term. My feeling in 2-3 years both would have been as good as Hill. In the years to come, I will watch how both develop with interest.
            I do feel that way. Admittedly, I know a lot more about Hill than I do about Leonard or Brooks. I've seen him play, in person, a couple dozen times and many more on television. I've seen Leonard twice on television, and Brooks once. They might turn out to be terrific players, but I just don't know enough about them to be disappointed that we didn't keep them. Anybody at 42 would have been a long shot, in my opinion.

            Hill is only 25 years old. Age wise, he fits in perfectly with this team going forward. He's the same age as Hansbrough after all.
            Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 06-24-2011, 01:44 PM.

            Comment


            • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

              Honestly i feel the team just got a lot better.
              Last edited by RLeWorm; 06-24-2011, 11:52 AM.

              Comment


              • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                Originally posted by RLeWorm View Post
                Honestly i feel the team just got a lot better.
                I agree, watch this video of Hill all up in Kobe's jersey. Hill can guard a side of beef against 10 pit bulls.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Su9Q-_q66M&NR=1
                "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
                Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

                Comment


                • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                  Those of you who are upset with us trading Leonard, do you really think we would have drafted him if there wasn't a trade in place with SA? I seriously doubt we would have since we have Granger and George. We were drafting Leonard for SA and odds are there was never a chance he was going to play here.

                  We traded the 15th player in a weak draft and a second round pick for a key player on the team with the best record who plays a position we could use some help with. I think anyone upset that we didn't get 29 is a little unreasonable, IMO. Hill and the 29th pick for the 15th pick in this draft would have been a ridiculously lopsided trade for us. The Spurs were trying to get a good deal too, you know. And who cares about the second round pick....how often do those turn out?

                  We have enough super young guys on this team who we are still trying to develop. Hill can come in and help us right away, which is something Leonard probably couldn't do. Hill would have been great to have in a Chicago series. This is a good deal for us and makes us a better team right now.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                    Originally posted by righteouscool View Post
                    As I said earlier, I think this trade was made with Lance in mind. George Hill is the perfect SG/PG next to him.
                    I totally agree, but I don't like the idea of building around a player that might implode.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                      [QUOTE][QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1257541]
                      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post

                      we need is to get a PF that can play defense and get rebounds(Varejao )


                      YOU and I both wish it! But unfortunately it's just a dream for us.
                      I really think it could be possible now that Cleveland decided to go young, I don't think Varejao fits their plans for the future.
                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                      • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                        I would also say that those that missed Jarrett jack should be happy today because we pretty much got a guy that is similar to him but a better point guard in my opinion.
                        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                          Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post
                          Hill's 6'9 wing span is what makes up for his height and is why he can guard sg's.
                          Yep. I knew he was known as a good defender, but I didn't understand why until I saw his wingspan last night. That's Rondo wingspan, and it's why, defensively, you can play him at the 1 or the 2.

                          Offensively, I think he's ultimately a shooting guard, but for the above reason, again, you can put him in either spot depending on what you need/want at the time.

                          If he starts, I think it will be next to DC, not in place of DC.

                          I think he'll see time at the 1 though.

                          Odds are he's part of the plan to have the best bench in the league, and in that sense he's a damned good start.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                            I knew last night that there would be some people who would dissaprove of this trade, there are always those that will no matter what. However to be honest I am a little suprised by the amount of people who don't approve of this trade.

                            As for my feeling on it, I was already nominating Bird/Morway as execs. of the year last night.

                            To me we turned a mid range first round pick & garbage (yes I said garbage & that is what I mean) into a player who at worst becomes our immediate sixth man and at best becomes our starting point guard. Oh and by the way this player also has real actual playoff experiance.

                            I know nothing about Leonard other than what was said about him prior to the draft but nothing in him screams that he is even close to being as good as Danny Granger or for that matter Paul George.

                            I know nothing about college basketball so I just go on what people tell me & I was reading nothing but that this was a weak draft & we had a mid level pick in a weak draft. We traded that away for a player who will contribute right now & is still young. Yes people 25 is still young.

                            I know some are worried about re-signing him. I look at it like this, if he plays well enough to make us worry about it I still consider that a win, that means he is playing well on our team.

                            I'll take what I know in a proven player from a winning system vs. the potential of what we hope. Remember every player coming into the NBA has an upside but not everyone of them can reach that upside. Will Leonard? I have no idea.

                            But is Hill a player who can play for us and contribute this upcoming season? Absolutely and not only that I agree with MackeyRose here, I think he steps in being the best p.g. on the team & will push Collison for the starting pg spot.

                            And if he doesn't start I think that you will see him paired up with Lance for several min. a game next year as they will both handle the ball and both score.

                            To me this was another in the line of great trades pulled off by Bird/Morway and the fact that this was facilitated by some of the money from dumping Murphy just makes the trade that much sweeter.


                            Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                            Comment


                            • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                              I believe this is an excellent move by the Pacers. Every team needs a great sixth man, and George Hill seems to be comfortable in that role and he seems to be a winner with a terrific attitude. A.J. Price in the Chicago series was flat out shocking. Like, why is this guy in the NBA? shocking. (Sorry Price fans.)

                              Hill fills a need. Leonard didn't. The Pacers just made their team better.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

                                George Hill can't take over a game like a potential OJ Mayo can.

                                With Hill, what you see is what you get.

                                With Mayo, we still haven't seen him peak.

                                Comment

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