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Thread: Do you like the pick and trade?

  1. #376
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    That was what Larry Bird said to Bob Kravitz after the conclusion of the Chicago series. I've said for several months now that the Pacers' biggest position of need was point guard. Perhaps Bird agrees and believes this to be the case. This is the second year in a row he's made a big move to acquire one.

    Without a shred of doubt, George Hill makes us better, both for the short term and the long term. As of this morning, he is the best point guard on the roster. My guess is he'll outplay Darren Collison in camp and earn his spot as the new starter. It may be a fair statement to say that he is actually a 6' 2" shooting guard. That's probably his most natural position. However, Collison started every game he played in last year at point guard, and he's essentially nothing more than a 6' 0" shooting guard either.

    Hill has mostly played off the ball in San Antonio. He hasn't been afforded the opportunity to be a playmaker, and his career assist numbers show that. However, I don't think there is much to lose in that area considering what we got out of Collison last year. Where Hill makes us better isn't on the offensive end. The difference offensively between Hill and Collison, is not enough to make a case for either player.

    Defensively, it isn't even a contest. Hill is one of the better defending guards in the league. He can defend both guard positions, and will make life easier on all the players behind him. Containing dribble penetration was the Achilles' heel of the Pacers defense last season, and that started with Collison. Hopefully playing with a back court of Hill and Paul George will be enough to convince Danny Granger that it's a worthwhile endeavor to defend again.

    Provided he signs a long term contract and stays, he especially makes us better in the long run. He might develop into the future starting point guard, or perhaps we'd be better off finding a true point guard to start, while using him as a defensive stopper/scoring guard off the bench. I can see him working out in either fashion.

    What really matters is, the Pacers got a better player in George Hill than they could have gotten with the 15th pick or 42nd pick, or that Euro guy. This trade feels like a win for everybody. The Spurs got fair value for a guy they really like, but probably would have had a hard time signing. The Pacers got a guy they needed, and that is happy to be playing in Indy again. George Hill gets to come home and further strengthen a solid core of youth that has the chance to develop into one of the better teams in the conference.

    It really doesn't matter whether he is the starting point guard, or the first guard off the bench playing big minutes. This trade makes us better. Well done Larry.
    I agree totally, with Hill at starting PG next year we have a chance to be one of the top defensive teams in East!
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  2. #377

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I couldn't agree more about the "D" aspect.

    You truly feel in the long term Hill is better than having gotten Leonard or Brooks at #15 and Jenkins at #42? I just don't see it. Short term I could see, but not long term. My feeling in 2-3 years both would have been as good as Hill. In the years to come, I will watch how both develop with interest.
    Most coaches don't play an expanded rotation and Leonard, and Jenkins would be collecting a lot of DNPS or poo poo minutes. We have very little understanding about Brooks overall defense and his willingness to play team ball both defensively and offensively.

    The fact is we won't have the minutes for these guys to learn NBA basketball once you factor in FA signings and the amount of money that we can spend to bring in quality vets.

  3. #378

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by tfarks View Post
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    Hill and Ginobli played really well together. I can envision Lance making those passes.
    As I said earlier, I think this trade was made with Lance in mind. George Hill is the perfect SG/PG next to him.

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  5. #379

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    leonard would have been stuck behind george and granger.... averaged about 5-10 minutes a game and would not be relevant

  6. #380
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You truly feel in the long term Hill is better than having gotten Leonard or Brooks at #15 and Jenkins at #42? I just don't see it. Short term I could see, but not long term. My feeling in 2-3 years both would have been as good as Hill. In the years to come, I will watch how both develop with interest.
    I do feel that way. Admittedly, I know a lot more about Hill than I do about Leonard or Brooks. I've seen him play, in person, a couple dozen times and many more on television. I've seen Leonard twice on television, and Brooks once. They might turn out to be terrific players, but I just don't know enough about them to be disappointed that we didn't keep them. Anybody at 42 would have been a long shot, in my opinion.

    Hill is only 25 years old. Age wise, he fits in perfectly with this team going forward. He's the same age as Hansbrough after all.
    Last edited by Mackey_Rose; 06-24-2011 at 01:44 PM.

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  8. #381
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Honestly i feel the team just got a lot better.
    Last edited by RLeWorm; 06-24-2011 at 11:52 AM.

  9. #382

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by RLeWorm View Post
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    Honestly i feel the team just got a lot better.
    I agree, watch this video of Hill all up in Kobe's jersey. Hill can guard a side of beef against 10 pit bulls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Su9Q-_q66M&NR=1
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  11. #383
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Those of you who are upset with us trading Leonard, do you really think we would have drafted him if there wasn't a trade in place with SA? I seriously doubt we would have since we have Granger and George. We were drafting Leonard for SA and odds are there was never a chance he was going to play here.

    We traded the 15th player in a weak draft and a second round pick for a key player on the team with the best record who plays a position we could use some help with. I think anyone upset that we didn't get 29 is a little unreasonable, IMO. Hill and the 29th pick for the 15th pick in this draft would have been a ridiculously lopsided trade for us. The Spurs were trying to get a good deal too, you know. And who cares about the second round pick....how often do those turn out?

    We have enough super young guys on this team who we are still trying to develop. Hill can come in and help us right away, which is something Leonard probably couldn't do. Hill would have been great to have in a Chicago series. This is a good deal for us and makes us a better team right now.

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  13. #384

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by righteouscool View Post
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    As I said earlier, I think this trade was made with Lance in mind. George Hill is the perfect SG/PG next to him.
    I totally agree, but I don't like the idea of building around a player that might implode.

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  15. #385
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    [QUOTE][QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1257541]
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    we need is to get a PF that can play defense and get rebounds(Varejao )


    YOU and I both wish it! But unfortunately it's just a dream for us.
    I really think it could be possible now that Cleveland decided to go young, I don't think Varejao fits their plans for the future.

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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    I would also say that those that missed Jarrett jack should be happy today because we pretty much got a guy that is similar to him but a better point guard in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble1 View Post
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    Hill's 6'9 wing span is what makes up for his height and is why he can guard sg's.
    Yep. I knew he was known as a good defender, but I didn't understand why until I saw his wingspan last night. That's Rondo wingspan, and it's why, defensively, you can play him at the 1 or the 2.

    Offensively, I think he's ultimately a shooting guard, but for the above reason, again, you can put him in either spot depending on what you need/want at the time.

    If he starts, I think it will be next to DC, not in place of DC.

    I think he'll see time at the 1 though.

    Odds are he's part of the plan to have the best bench in the league, and in that sense he's a damned good start.

  18. #388
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    I knew last night that there would be some people who would dissaprove of this trade, there are always those that will no matter what. However to be honest I am a little suprised by the amount of people who don't approve of this trade.

    As for my feeling on it, I was already nominating Bird/Morway as execs. of the year last night.

    To me we turned a mid range first round pick & garbage (yes I said garbage & that is what I mean) into a player who at worst becomes our immediate sixth man and at best becomes our starting point guard. Oh and by the way this player also has real actual playoff experiance.

    I know nothing about Leonard other than what was said about him prior to the draft but nothing in him screams that he is even close to being as good as Danny Granger or for that matter Paul George.

    I know nothing about college basketball so I just go on what people tell me & I was reading nothing but that this was a weak draft & we had a mid level pick in a weak draft. We traded that away for a player who will contribute right now & is still young. Yes people 25 is still young.

    I know some are worried about re-signing him. I look at it like this, if he plays well enough to make us worry about it I still consider that a win, that means he is playing well on our team.

    I'll take what I know in a proven player from a winning system vs. the potential of what we hope. Remember every player coming into the NBA has an upside but not everyone of them can reach that upside. Will Leonard? I have no idea.

    But is Hill a player who can play for us and contribute this upcoming season? Absolutely and not only that I agree with MackeyRose here, I think he steps in being the best p.g. on the team & will push Collison for the starting pg spot.

    And if he doesn't start I think that you will see him paired up with Lance for several min. a game next year as they will both handle the ball and both score.

    To me this was another in the line of great trades pulled off by Bird/Morway and the fact that this was facilitated by some of the money from dumping Murphy just makes the trade that much sweeter.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  20. #389

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    I believe this is an excellent move by the Pacers. Every team needs a great sixth man, and George Hill seems to be comfortable in that role and he seems to be a winner with a terrific attitude. A.J. Price in the Chicago series was flat out shocking. Like, why is this guy in the NBA? shocking. (Sorry Price fans.)

    Hill fills a need. Leonard didn't. The Pacers just made their team better.

  21. #390

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    George Hill can't take over a game like a potential OJ Mayo can.

    With Hill, what you see is what you get.

    With Mayo, we still haven't seen him peak.

  22. #391
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    You guys act like we had the next MJ. Hill is proven. Leonard is not. Not saying he won't be successful, I hope he is. His skill set is not what the Pacers need right now.

  23. #392
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    With Mayo, we still haven't seen him peak.
    And you may never will.

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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    [QUOTE=Justin Tyme;1257452]
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHale View Post
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    6'2 is pretty good size for a pg/QUOTE]


    SMALL for a SG though.
    When he's as long as the average 6'9" man, it doesn't matter.

  26. #394

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mono View Post
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    I believe this is an excellent move by the Pacers. Every team needs a great sixth man, and George Hill seems to be comfortable in that role and he seems to be a winner with a terrific attitude. A.J. Price in the Chicago series was flat out shocking. Like, why is this guy in the NBA? shocking. (Sorry Price fans.)

    Hill fills a need. Leonard didn't. The Pacers just made their team better.
    Price played well in the playoffs. Really well actually. In fact, he annoyed a lot of Bulls fans..

    He had a bad three minute stretch. Which seems to have erased everything positive he did. Hansbrough had a terrible four games. Josh had a terrible four games. DC was terrible in clutch time twice. (And he was only in clutch time twice) Price had a terrible 3 minutes...

    Enough of this "Price is terrible myth" crap anyway.
    No, he redefined shooting slump, at a time when he needed to be the first option and supply scoring, but before that, people wanted Price to start ahead of DC. (When fans were on the "DC Sux" bandwagon) And this is a season directly after a knee injury. A knee injury which has taken other players a year to even start playing from, and AJ came back from it in four months. He struggled. Shocking. Knee injuries tend to do that to players directly after they injure themselves. (Look at Dun the season before..)

    Price will end up proving my point. At this point, I'm hoping it's with another team. And personally, I think it's pretty obvious that one of DC or AJ won't be here by the start of the season anyway.

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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    And you know Leonard fell for what reason? Please tell us why he fell. No opinion, but fact that can be confirmed by print. Granger's fall was stated in print. Otherwise, it is nothing but conjecture and opinion. That and .99 will get you a cup of coffee at Speedway.
    Leonard likely fell because he's a 6'7" tweener with rough offensive skills. He was probably the least talked about top-10 projected pick in the entire draft.

  28. #396

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    George Hill can't take over a game like a potential OJ Mayo can.

    With Hill, what you see is what you get.

    With Mayo, we still haven't seen him peak.
    keyword: "potential"

    It's still not happening for Mayo, and may never will.

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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMosley21 View Post
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    Ike Diogu had an awesome month once too.
    As has Brandon Rush.

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  31. #398

    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    George Hill can't take over a game like a potential OJ Mayo can.

    With Hill, what you see is what you get.

    With Mayo, we still haven't seen him peak.
    Why even bring this up? Mayo would cost way too much for us to get and if Bird really wants him then we can offer him a contract next summer as a RFA.

    That is the beauty of it. We can try this out and if it doesn't work then we can let Hill go and go get Mayo.

  32. #399
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    I knew last night that there would be some people who would dissaprove of this trade, there are always those that will no matter what. However to be honest I am a little suprised by the amount of people who don't approve of this trade.

    As for my feeling on it, I was already nominating Bird/Morway as execs. of the year last night.

    To me we turned a mid range first round pick & garbage (yes I said garbage & that is what I mean) into a player who at worst becomes our immediate sixth man and at best becomes our starting point guard. Oh and by the way this player also has real actual playoff experiance.

    I know nothing about Leonard other than what was said about him prior to the draft but nothing in him screams that he is even close to being as good as Danny Granger or for that matter Paul George.

    I know nothing about college basketball so I just go on what people tell me & I was reading nothing but that this was a weak draft & we had a mid level pick in a weak draft. We traded that away for a player who will contribute right now & is still young. Yes people 25 is still young.

    I know some are worried about re-signing him. I look at it like this, if he plays well enough to make us worry about it I still consider that a win, that means he is playing well on our team.

    I'll take what I know in a proven player from a winning system vs. the potential of what we hope. Remember every player coming into the NBA has an upside but not everyone of them can reach that upside. Will Leonard? I have no idea.

    But is Hill a player who can play for us and contribute this upcoming season? Absolutely and not only that I agree with MackeyRose here, I think he steps in being the best p.g. on the team & will push Collison for the starting pg spot.

    And if he doesn't start I think that you will see him paired up with Lance for several min. a game next year as they will both handle the ball and both score.

    To me this was another in the line of great trades pulled off by Bird/Morway and the fact that this was facilitated by some of the money from dumping Murphy just makes the trade that much sweeter.
    Hmm.... I agree with most of those points. I don't disapprove or approve of the trade --- I just don't know how much it improves us as a team. It's hard for me to say that Hill is an upgrade over Collison, as much as Collison frustrates me at times. I like Hill situationally to come in and defend some potent guards.

    I like Hill, he's a great story, he's a home-grown boy, but I do feel like people have some unrealistic views on how good this guy will be for us. We had the same "excitement" about Collison (even more, actually), and it has since been tempered by reality. Hill played in a fantastic system that contends every year, under arguably the best coach in the league and 2-3 future Hall of Famers. This is a completely different, still-undefined, situation he's coming to. The only positive he can take from this is that he's closer to his roots, but system-wise, Indiana isn't an improvement over what he just came from. He'll be fighting for playing time with Collison instead of Parker. Frankly, I don't see him taking the starting position... so he's still going to be on the bench.

    I do like the prospect of Hill coming in off the bench, though, he could be a huge spark in our 2nd group, and a great offense generator. I can see him having a lot of success against 2nd units, but against 1st units, he's going to have his ups and downs. He has a few YouTube highlights to lean on.... but so does Collison for that matter, even though most people have forgotten.

    I guess I just look at how this off-season has transpired... and yes, it's still young... and yes there is a lockout... but to think that all we've gained is a backup guard just seems.... like a let-down to me so far. The draft wasn't overwhelming with talent, but it wasn't near as bad as most people let on either... to consider how much cap space we have, and the players that were available... Eh, I dunno. Seems like we coulda done better.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 06-24-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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  34. #400
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    Default Re: Do you like the pick and trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Future View Post
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    George Hill can't take over a game like a potential OJ Mayo can.
    Within 15 seconds of entering Sunday’s game against the Phoenix Suns, George Hill had made his first basket. After 35 seconds more, he had made another. Minutes later, Hill was in the midst of a full-blown explosion, as he dropped a pair of pull-up three-pointers, hit a short jumper, and then successfully executed the patented, controversial “rip move” to earn three foul shots and pull off an 11-2 run all on his own. Toss in an extra basket and a technical free throw, and Hill concluded his six-minute stint in the first quarter with 16 points and spotless shooting from the field and the free throw line.
    Never say never.

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